Drug addiction and death?

[densa44]

I know that this is a strange topic for an outdoorsman's site but you folks seem to know something about everything.

A friend of the family just had a ride along with 2 firemen in Calgary. It seems that there are not enough fires to keep them busy so they drive around checking on the homeless camps.

It seems that the camps are separated by "race", indigenous, European, and African. The African one that she saw was made up of young men who barely spoke English.

What I would like to know is: Who are these people?, Why are they homeless?, why not working or in school? and last but not least, where do they get the money to buy these drugs?

To the mods, if this post is not appropriate please just delete it.

Any information that can be provided here will help a lot for the new ministery of Mental health and addictions. Thx.

[huntinstuff]

I can answer that because Ive seen it and dealt with it.

The camps are mostly divided into race. The only white guy I saw that mixed with the FN population was Trevor. He was white but he could pass for FN at first glance.

Between standing at corners with signs, they also accost people in parking lots. People of all shapes and sizes give them money.

We have a 20 year old black kid with ice blue eyes who is a beggar in Riverbend. He hangs out at Riverbend Square and lives with a group of Ethiopians at 53 av and Riverbend Rd. He makes a killing because people believe his b.s. He takes his $ back home and they all regroup, and the dealer pops by and they load up on dope.

Hungry? No problem. Theft is rampant and the other members of his group are out stealing while he is begging for money. It's how they function anywhere.

And the girls? Well, figure that out.

[Tommy]

2X to the above. Very true and sad. Our family has volunteer at many soup kitchens, youth shelters etc over the years and the crime that goes on in those homeless camps and shelters is rampant. All to get their next fix.

There is also lot of violence and intimidation between them self, sort like only the strong survive kind thing.

Tommy

[Sooner]

We have a couple regular druggie/homeless guys here that the "neighborhood" has fell in love with. They give money, they give food and gift cards to support. Meanwhile their shopping carts are always full of "stuff" they take from yards and sheds, eyes turn blind to that.

One has a pet, sometimes they sleep outside in -20. No problem in the lefty world. Yet someone lets their house cat out and it gets lost, the Karen's gang up, freak out and run that person off the community page for being a bad pet owner.


Don't see a lot of race groups in our hood, just a mix of native and whites. Have yet to see any black homeless or other races of people here. I'm sure they are out there though.

10/15 yrs ago, we didn't have this problem around here. Maybe the odd tent in a ravine or the hill below Alex Taylor school. It sure has exploded and become quite visible everywhere you go now. Not sure how we fix it to get back to no homeless camps everywhere. I think that ship sailed. Sad really to see so many living like that.

[walking buffalo]

Another source if income for many addicts is the government and charities.

Being an addict is a full time job.
And many get paid a decent wage staying an addict.
Alberta works monthly payment.
Health care, pharmacy, dental, glasses
Transportation.
From charities; Housing, clothes, food, phones


Many addicts clear well over 60K in cash and benefits not available to those that don't do drugs and work.

Any information that can be provided here will help a lot for the new ministery of Mental health and addictions.

That's seriously a sad statement..... no wonder the addiction crisis is so messed up.

[W921]

The kids learn at school that when the are 13 they can do whatever they want and parents have no authority over them. If a parent or teacher gives them a hard time then just call police and accuse them of some type of abuse. Everything from sex to abortions encouraged. Schools are full of drugs. Dealer houses across street from school and everybody knows but police do nothing. Trying to teach my kids about honesty and at the same time the shop teacher in the school stealing wrenches and supplies from the shop class. I could go on and on but basically what im saying is we are giving our kids a bunch of rope so the young idiots can hang themselves.

[Drewski Canuck]

Why the interest on behalf of the new Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions? Are you a consultant or Government Employee? Are you a member at large or a Professional providing public input to the Provincial Government?

Your naivety strikes me as a Masters Grad working on a Thesis and trolling for public attitudes for the issue of homelessness. And lets face it, you really are not naïve about the subject at all, are you?

Homeless people are people who have public resources at their disposal to end homelessness, but there is a catch. You get a free roof over your head, IF YOU DEAL WITH YOUR DRUG AND MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM, TAKE TREATMENT AND COUNSELLING, AND DO EMPLOYMENT TRAINING.

So why not try and help yourself out of your tent city? Because you are oppositional defiant in personality, and no Government or Citizen is going to tell you that you cannot sit there smoking meth all day long and stealing what you like and living how you want where you want.


You enjoy the drugs you use, and you are not accountable to anyone, and you do not have to go and suffer a 9 - 5 job or deal with your lack of marketable employment skills.

SO, how do we break the cycle of those who do not want to break the cycle of drug addictions, homelessness, and refusal to participate in Society according to Society's rules?

You can't.

For most of these people they were marginalized at birth. If any of them are honest with an interviewer, and most are not, they will tell you their Parents were alcoholics and Drug Addicts, and the family home was full of neglect, abuse, and violence. Very few PHD's in that crowd. Alot of Fetal Alcohol and Narco Babies, with heavy Child Welfare Involvement. Then they do poorly in school and they start their involvement with Criminality at a young age.

So go tell your focus group that the problem is generational, and we need to focus on the children at grade 6 levels about breaking the cycle before they become sexually active, get pregnant, start partying and drinking, and creating the next generation of homeless.

Drewski

[fishtank]

If these naloxone kit supplies aren’t getting used, they are going to expired on tax payers dime .

[Nova]

My sister has gone down this rabbit hole and is homeless last I heard. I've been no contact with her for over 2 years but still get regular updates from family members.

On the money end of things, a lot of it started with government handouts. She's basically been utilizing social services off and on since she graduated school. Low income housing. Did some odd cash jobs so she wouldn't have to pay taxes or have it reflected in her housing cost. Very much capable of working, but her attitude has always been deplorable. Incredibly mouthy and disrespectful, but if you gave any of that attitude back to her she'd tell you what a terrible person you are. She'd quit every job she had because she was somehow always surrounded by the worst people to walk the earth. That old adage about how if everyone you meet is an a-hole, you're probably the a-hole applies here. She always bounced back and forth between drugs and being a semi-functional adult until the government started handing out CERB and EI. Was working at the time, both her and her boyfriend asked to be laid off because they were planning on moving anyway. They moved to BC and totally went off the rails.

Once the government pinched the EI and CERB back, then shoplifting and begging family for money started. That went on for several years, even when it was known and totally obvious what she was doing with her life. She went as far as extorting $500 from her daughter by threatening self harm if she didn't get money. Most of that cash flow has been cut off, but I'm quite confident there is still one person giving her money.

I don't know what she receives for government support now, but she's constantly peddling her shoplifted goods on facebook. She's also utilized a variety of facebook groups as well - "helping hands" type groups, local garage sales, etc. Posts a down on her luck type story, mentions having a 15 year old daughter (who hasn't been in her care for 2 years). Milks a bunch of free stuff from people and then turns around and pawns it off or sells it.

[3blade]

Been involved too long.

Locally grown (white and FN) are often the products of their environment. Parents using, causes FAS and a variety of developmental problems. Family, friends and just about everyone they know from birth is on something. Drugs easier to get than food. These people are extremely difficult to rehabilitate as their neurological hardwiring has been affected. Some of these are also just the shallow end of the gene pool. Often newfies who came here chasing money, but not exclusively. Guys who, in another time, would have been laborers who get drunk every evening, or girls who would have been strippers, are now psycho addicts thanks to the availability and potency of drugs.

The Africans and Middle easterners are imported to swing votes for liberals in close ridings. Parents with piles of kids, some don’t get watched or taught as they should, and some have grown up in a completely different world and simply can’t fit in here. Young men with more rage than brains are easy pickings for gangs.

Money comes from “support services” and theft.

Drugs come from Asia. Much of what they steal goes to Asia.

Ottawa is what’s wrong. Immigration needs to be tailored to what Canada needs, not what looks good to the UN. Asian gangs need to be 556’d, and arrest the carcasses. Ports need to be run by the government not the HA (west coast) or mafia (east coast). Border reserves need to be closed to prevent smuggling, treaties be damned. Legal industry needs to be replaced with a justice system, and convicts need to serve their sentences.

While things have spiraled under dippy and dopey, it’s not new. Especially the organized crime situation. That should have been treated much more harshly all the way along.

Provincially, it’s tough under the current legal framework. Close the injection sites, pull funding from sohi/edmonton, etc, but that’s not going to solve it. And there’s no appetite in the current leadership to challenge Ottawa beyond words.

The “new ministry” looks a lot like a scape goat for UCP policy failure.

[jstubbs]

Close to 60% of homeless people in Edmonton are Indigenous. It's a severe problem. And honestly? It makes sense. Residential schools screwed up generations of those kids. How would you feel if the gov't came and took your kid, shipped them off to some school wherever the hell where they were beat if they spoke English? Where your culture was killed and repressed? Where you didn't know love or affection for years of the most primary years of your life. No **** they turn to alcohol or other substances to cope after they were traumatized. And now kids are stuck growing up in these remote reserves, where there is no employment, poor education, rampant corruption, unbelievable poverty, gang violence, and endless supply of drugs and alcohol. What else are you going to end up doing but joining a gang for some semblance of acceptance and purpose? Or just sit around and get loaded all day? That's what everyone else is doing. So what are your options? Leave your reserve, where everyone you know is, your whole support system is, and go to the city where you know nobody, have no support, and you have to try to figure out how to make a life for yourself? Worse yet, if you come back to the community, you're treated even worse for leaving the reserve and trying to better yourself.

I worked with an Indigenous guy, probably in his mid-late 60s, nice fella, hard worker, great carpenter, but could never get his journeyman ticket. He had been forced to attend residential schooling, and he never properly learned how to read or write there (in any language), and it made him hate school of any kind. Couldn't stand it. Brought up horrid memories, emotions, etc. So he could do all the physical work, but none of the theory. Can't even imagine the earnings he's missed out on due to that.

And this summer I was out at a school build in an Indigenous town in northern SK. Talking to the GC's superintendent. He tells me how first night their tool trailer was broken into, stole thousands in tools, and some locals they hired for the project told him who did it. Guess it was some kids who lived literally across the street from their site. Said he went over there to talk to the parents, and guess what he saw. Their parents would shoot up, then later smash a hole in the wall, and toss their old dirty needles in behind the drywall. Whole house just filled with old used needles. That's what these kids were growing up with. What chance at life do you have when those are your parents? And those are your living conditions?

Christ it's one incredibly sad situation every way you slice it. And the drug supply as of late here is incredibly tainted. Lotta death from young people who aren't homeless addicts, and thought they were snorting coke, or taking an ecstasy pill, or whatever. Ends up being cut with fent and other horrible stuff. People are being outright poisoned. Some crazy stuff on the streets to right now called "tranq" that is right messing people up as well.

Also... very, very few people who are homeless in Edmonton are actually from Edmonton. Or even lived here normally for a few years before they fell into addiction and substance use. Looking at the non-Indigenous homeless population, it's virtually all people from rural and northern communities across AB, SK, BC and the territories. Or from back out east but you really don't see that much. Instead, it's Rimbey, Drayton Valley, Wetaskiwin, Edson, Dawson Creek, High Level, Meadow Lake, Fairview, Athabasca, Bonnyvile, the list goes on. Usually they get hooked on meth or alcohol bad cause there's nothing else to do, get kicked out by their family/community and wind up in Edmonton, or they end up here for some sort of treatment and stay, or they up at the Edmonton Institution or Edmonton Remand and decide to linger around. It's a story that happens time and time again. Anyone who has grown up in a small town has known more than a couple "bad eggs" who got hooked on something, went off the rails, and now they're out in Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, wherever living on the streets doing whatever it takes for drugs.

So it's always funny hearing guys from out of town calling Edmonton a dump full of bums and addicts, when these are people coming from THEIR communities that are making it the big city's problem. Should be thanking the taxpayers of Edmonton, Red Deer, Calgary for having to support and deal with all of rural AB's problems.

[W921]

The one common thing in all replies are drugs.

[HVA7mm]

I know plenty of successful FN people whose parents attended residential schools, and encouraged their own children to get an education. Often life on the rez was way worse for some than in the schools.

One thing all of my successful FN friends have in common is that they don’t take illegal drugs and they look forward, not back. It would sure be refreshing if our society could focus more on their successes and how they overcame diversity instead of constantly focusing on their failures and oppression. Imagine how that might change outlooks and perceptions if generations were taught “yes, you can do that too” .

I never focus on any demographic as just that, a demographic. In my eyes people are just people.

And once again like others continually mention, we have an illegal drug problem, not so much a homeless problem. Homeless people have help available if they are willing to (like most of society) follow some rules.

[huntinstuff]

Harsh reality

Guy or girl is homeless living on the streets. Family cuts off most ties due to stress and getting asked for money etcetc.

Years go by. Homeless person dies. Family is on the news holding an 8x10 pic from years ago telling everyone how the system failed their "loved one"

(Insert cheque amount here)

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I know plenty of successful FN people whose parents attended residential schools, and encouraged their own children to get an education. Often life on the rez was way worse for some than in the schools.

One thing all of my successful FN friends have in common is that they don’t take illegal drugs and they look forward, not back. It would sure be refreshing if our society could focus more on their successes and how they overcame diversity instead of constantly focusing on their failures and oppression. Imagine how that might change outlooks and perceptions if generations were taught “yes, you can do that too” .

I never focus on any demographic as just that, a demographic. In my eyes people are just people.

And once again like others continually mention, we have an illegal drug problem, not so much a homeless problem. Homeless people have help available if they are willing to (like most of society) follow some rules.

Totally agree, those who dwell endlessly on the past are doomed to fail, fact of life. As for drugs, our tolerance of them is what's going to be the downfall of our society in the end.

Grizz

[badbrass]

Or they will try! I hope it will never happen! Thank God!

[bezzola]

I live in the kilkenny neighborhood in edmonton and across the road is a co-op station. With a couple FN that hang out there i have told them no on many occasions and been threatened that they will just take it. My wife won’t even ho there even with the dogs. Called the police and they never cone out.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I know plenty of successful FN people whose parents attended residential schools, and encouraged their own children to get an education. Often life on the rez was way worse for some than in the schools.

One thing all of my successful FN friends have in common is that they don’t take illegal drugs and they look forward, not back. It would sure be refreshing if our society could focus more on their successes and how they overcame diversity instead of constantly focusing on their failures and oppression. Imagine how that might change outlooks and perceptions if generations were taught “yes, you can do that too” .

I never focus on any demographic as just that, a demographic. In my eyes people are just people.

And once again like others continually mention, we have an illegal drug problem, not so much a homeless problem. Homeless people have help available if they are willing to (like most of society) follow some rules.

White, black red, doesn't matter, give people money for doing nothing, they will not move off of that.

[Etownpaul]

The major cities are so bad right now because that’s where all the services for the homeless are. Would you rather starve in slave lake or Athabasca or hitch a ride to Edmonton and get 3 free hot meals a day and sleep in the transit centres when it gets cold.

The underlying issue is the progressive voters and their misguided compassion. I fail to see how it’s compassionate to allow these people to slowly kill themselves with drugs while sleeping in a tent on public property. That is absolutely not humane in any way. Most street people need to be institutionalized to have any chance of kicking their addiction and saving themselves. But somehow that’s the less humane option.

[badbrass]

Ain't that the truth!

Originally Posted by Etownpaul

The major cities are so bad right now because that’s where all the services for the homeless are. Would you rather starve in slave lake or Athabasca or hitch a ride to Edmonton and get 3 free hot meals a day and sleep in the transit centres when it gets cold.

The underlying issue is the progressive voters and their misguided compassion. I fail to see how it’s compassionate to allow these people to slowly kill themselves with drugs while sleeping in a tent on public property. That is absolutely not humane in any way. Most street people need to be institutionalized to have any chance of kicking their addiction and saving themselves. But somehow that’s the less humane option.

[densa44]

In my time I have been a student, administrator, consultant and now a senior citizen getting ready to meet his maker and would like to be able to say that I used some of my gifts to help my fellow man.

I have not heard a "sure fire" solution to our problems, and I'm not surprised. There is a great deal of expertise on this web site and if there was an easy solution it would be published here.

I can add another wrinkle, when in an exit interview I asked a FN college educated social worker with expertise in mental health; "what kind of employee should replace you?" It turns out that the language spoken by the natives at Sitsika is only spoken by one other band in Browning Montana. She did not say "someone who speaks Blackfoot and has an MSW!". She said " how would you like dealing with your extended family for all the things that a mental health/child welfare worker sees?" WOW.

So When I called the chief who, I knew and asked him, if he would like a non native qualified individual or a qualified non native, he said that he wanted a qualified native. I think that was the right answer. My only regret is that we didn't find a group of young natives and help them growing up and into university.

I appreciate all the honest and frank assessments of the problems. Are there FN people here who have successfully integrated into Canadian society that have some helpful observations?

Thanks folks, this helps a bit but it looks pretty tough to solve in one stroke.

[3blade]

I know a couple FN people that got away from alcohol and gangs, and now have solid careers and families. They both had non-FN immediate family that intervened when they were young kids and took them away from that environment, raised them as Canadian and sober. 30-50 years ago. Imagine that today, the whole reserve would riot and dopey would be apologizing while wearing a headdress.

Don’t know any that got away from drugs or alcohol as adults. Most who I knew went down that path are dead or missing. Different deal all together.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by badbrass

Ain't that the truth!

Have relative 54 years old living on the streets, last Wednesday almost died from fentanyl and a tranquilizer drug mix. 3 days later he realized he was in hospital. Visited every day to check on his progress and he ate supper Saturday. Sunday Morning our relative checked himself out of hospital against the advice of hospital staff. He caught the handy bus back to shelter. The medication at the hospital wasn’t enough for him. In the old days sick people out of control went to Ponoka. He survived this time, a friend seen him back on the streets today.

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

Have relative 54 years old living on the streets, last Wednesday almost died from fentanyl and a tranquilizer drug mix. 3 days later he realized he was in hospital. Visited every day to check on his progress and he ate supper Saturday. Sunday Morning our relative checked himself out of hospital against the advice of hospital staff. He caught the handy bus back to shelter. The medication at the hospital wasn’t enough for him. In the old days sick people out of control went to Ponoka. He survived this time, a friend seen him back on the streets today.

Your relative did not "survive" his Fentanyl overdose. He did not survive any of the other overdoses either. Each and every time there is more and more brain damage. Each and every time the appreciation of the consequences are more and more elusive to your relative.

He will not stop, and neither will the other severe addicts at the Shelter, or street corner, or city ravine. That is the irony of rehabilitation. If it is to have any meaning, it has to be done very early in the cycle.

At Calling Lake, in August, there were 5 overdose deaths of some of the worst Criminals in the community. Every 3 months the Boyle Street McAuley Center holds a vigil for the 100 - 130 people who overdose and die in the area in Edmonton. Nothing changes for the ones who survived and knew the deceased, they just keep taking more and more drugs until it is their turn.

The Mental Health Act can be used to have the individual committed to an institution. Then they are locked up and protected from themselves. Nothing else will work.

Drewski

[densa44]

It only allows the "patient" to be held and treated against his will for 48 hours and only if he is Homicidal or suicidal. He can be recertified by a physician but as has been said here before that rarely happens. In addition non voluntary treatment hasn't been very successful.

We will keep trying until we find something that works...or we give up. My boss said that to me.

[Bergerboy]

If you look in the remains of encampments in the city there are often discarded Naloxone Injection kits. They have no syringes left in them but everything else is intact. Another failed experiment at $80 a pop to tax payers. Time for a better plan. Mandatory rehabilitation and institutionalization is the only answer.

[6.5 shooter]

There is only one person who can get you clean and sober... and they are looking back at you every time you look in the mirror. Do programs like NA or AA help? you bet your butt they do! but in the end only you can fix you.

[badbrass]

You don't what know what I have to say! let them do what they want to do! no more safe kits, if they want to die! let them do it big time. Let them do it!

[Bushrat]

Watched a local junkie come out of his overdose because of nalaxone being given to him by ambulance attendants. He came around quite quickly, once he realized what happened he was mad as hell because they ruined his buzz...

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by densa44

It only allows the "patient" to be held and treated against his will for 48 hours and only if he is Homicidal or suicidal. He can be recertified by a physician but as has been said here before that rarely happens. In addition non voluntary treatment hasn't been very successful.

Doctors very rarely will renew the detention of a formal patient because of bed capacity more than any other reason. Many patients who are formed under the MHA require extensive psychiatric (and beyond) care but there are virtually no resources to provide it.

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

If you look in the remains of encampments in the city there are often discarded Naloxone Injection kits. They have no syringes left in them but everything else is intact. Another failed experiment at $80 a pop to tax payers. Time for a better plan. Mandatory rehabilitation and institutionalization is the only answer.

Yeah? You've been out cleaning up those homeless encampments yourself? Christ quit repeating garbage you heard 4th hand at the coffee shop. Overdoses would skyrocket overnight if they stopped handing out naloxone kits. If you just want people to die, it's a great idea.

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The Mental Health Act can be used to have the individual committed to an institution. Then they are locked up and protected from themselves. Nothing else will work.

You will never see this solution in your lifetime and probably not mine either. Alberta Hospital, the largest "institution" of the sort, is very limited in capacity and often operates at or near that capacity. Meanwhile, Edmonton has approximately 3000 homeless people. If even 20% of those folks would qualify under whatever criteria you're proposing to have them "locked up", that's 600 beds on top of what exists today--which is 200 more than Alberta Hospital even currently has.

We can't even get a damn new hospital built in Edmonton. There is absolutely zero political will nor interest to put any funds towards any sort of asylum or institution.