Confronted while duck hunting a canal

[Blake]

I had just snuck up to a pair of blue winged teal on a W.I.D. canal West of highway 817 with my nine year old daughter in tow and shot them as they came off the water. I went back to my truck to get my decoy pole to retrieve them when a farmer come roaring up to me in his half ton to tell me I was trespassing on his land, I was to leave immediately and I was hunting illegally because I was too close to his home (1-1.5 km?). I took a deep breath and smiled at him and as politely as I could (don't want to tick off the landowners...) told him that while the canal may run through his property it was not his. His land would start 75 feet from the edge of the canal. And he was not permitted to restrict access on a road allowance (as I watched my two teal floating down the canal ). He eventually conceded the canal wasn't his, and agreed I wasn't putting him or his family in danger by shooting to the West when he and his home were East of me. But he continued to insist the roadway was his. Then, after some more explaining on my part, he agreed the roadway wasn't his either but then told me I was trespassing on W.I.D land. Anyways.... we finally agreed to disagree, I fetched my ducks and I moved along.
Thoughts?

[Squeeker]

Old boy prob had nothing better to do.

[cover]

A very good example of knowing the rules and regulations to put SOME of the landholders around in their place and that in fact they do not own the entire world. Share and share alike.

[Winch101]

If you know you are right and even if you are not , insist they go home and call the RCMP or FW... Even if the law comes they usually are not conversant with the law. This attitude about hunters and wid and eid Land that is held by Farmers has to be changed ....by ourselves or the govt....

You did the right thing , with your daughter there and all ....but definitely go back and hunt there ...W101

[Russel]

The WID is the landowner but it is not public land. The road along the canal is part of the WID right of way and would not be public road allowance.

[densa44]

I farm too and try not to annoy the landowners. Why not visit or call WID and speak to them? The landowner pays for "water" every year weather they use it or not and this is a sensitive area.

I don't shoot near any houses or for that matter fire many shots, I have a dog too, and the local people all like to see her work.

I'm sure we can all get along on this one.

[BDL]

My brothers work for the E.I.D, and they said that while the leases are public foot access the canal roads are not and that landowners can deny access to them. They were'nt sure if the W.I.D works the same way but if they had to guess they would say that it is.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by BDL

My brothers work for the E.I.D, and they said that while the leases are public foot access the canal roads are not and that landowners can deny access to them. They were'nt sure if the W.I.D works the same way but if they had to guess they would say that it is.

So according to what your brothers say, foot access only and the landowner can deny access.
So myself and all the other waterfowl hunters that drive the canals looking for ducks to jump shoot shouldn't be doing so?

[sjemac]

"You're tresspassing".

"No I'm not. I'm on water."

"This is a private lake."

"There's no such thing" (I know that there is in certain situations but this wasn't one of them).

"You don't have access."

"Yes I do from the road right there. See my truck?"

"You're on land".

"If you can come out here and shake my hand without getting wet I'll believe you."

"I've got cow's out here."

"As long as they don't fly by me they should be fine."

"I'm calling the police."

"You probably should. Have a nice day."

No police and never another problem.

[220swifty]

Congrats on the double. My only thought, really.

[xtreme hunter10]

Originally Posted by sjemac

"You're tresspassing".

"No I'm not. I'm on water."

"This is a private lake."

"There's no such thing" (I know that there is in certain situations but this wasn't one of them).

"You don't have access."

"Yes I do from the road right there. See my truck?"

"You're on land".

"If you can come out here and shake my hand without getting wet I'll believe you."

"I've got cow's out here."

"As long as they don't fly by me they should be fine"

"I'm calling the police."

"You probably should. Have a nice day."

No police and never another problem.

I have the same argument at jackfish lake and black nugget lake.

" you have to pay to use the campground"

"I'm not camping but thanks. "

you are in the campground you are using it"

" i'm fishing on the lake. "

" i own the lake its on my property!"

" no you don't, you own the land around it, and FYI high water mark is crown land".

" you have to pay!"
" i'm fishing, are u charging me to fish?!"
" no, um, charging you to park."
" i parked on the road."
" you cant park on the road, you have to park in here.cause you are using the lake"
" I have a fishing license that helped pay for those fish in that lake, and i am gonna fish it. you cant charge me money to fish, use the parking lot sure... but since i'm not have a nice day".
" I'm phoning the police. you're trespassing!"
" ok, you phone them, I'll phone fish and wildlife and you can tell them u are trying to charge me money to fish".

" you're an *******!"

" hope your day gets better! good bye."

(actual conversation with the campsite manager at black nugget ).

No one showed up. And I didnt call fish and wildlife. just another case of not owning. but apparently i'm an ******* lol. and fishing sucked!!

[Tezma]

Originally Posted by xtreme hunter10

I have the same argument at jackfish lake and black nugget lake.

" you have to pay to use the campground"

"I'm not camping but thanks. "

you are in the campground you are using it"

" i'm fishing on the lake. "

" i own the lake its on my property!"

" no you don't, you own the land around it, and FYI high water mark is crown land".

" you have to pay!"
" i'm fishing, are u charging me to fish?!"
" no, um, charging you to park."
" i parked on the road."
" you cant park on the road, you have to park in here.cause you are using the lake"
" I have a fishing license that helped pay for those fish in that lake, and i am gonna fish it. you cant charge me money to fish, use the parking lot sure... but since i'm not have a nice day".
" I'm phoning the police. you're trespassing!"
" ok, you phone them, I'll phone fish and wildlife and you can tell them u are trying to charge me money to fish".

" you're an *******!"

" hope your day gets better! good bye."

(actual conversation with the campsite manager at black nugget ).

No one showed up. And I didnt call fish and wildlife. just another case of not owning. but apparently i'm an ******* lol. and fishing sucked!!

LOL I like that, My dad told me a similair story before...

[BDL]

I phoned one of my brothers just to clarify things and he said that the canals and canal roads belong to the landowners and that you would need permission to use them. The e.i.d has right of way to them and that's it, however the actual land that the e.i.d owns is public access hunting as long as you drive on the trails, he mentioned that the w.i.d may be different but he is sure that it is not. Hope those helps

[Blake]

So I spoke to someone at the W.I.D offices in Strathmore and apparently the canals are private roads and they don't give permission for anyone to hunt. Which certainly is unfortunate. I've been jump shooting waterfowl on the canals in Southern Alberta for years.

[Kootenai]

you own the land around it, and FYI high water mark is crown land".

Laws to access crown land.

---You cannot trespass on private land to get access to crown land.
---If you are below the high water mark, yes, you are on crown land, HOWEVER, the landowner above the high water mark has first use of the land. You can use the land below the high water mark to transit the beach. You cannot loiter. In other words, if you are below a high water mark with private land above it, keep walking. You do not have the right to sit, camp, fish, or picnic. If you come to a cliff, you cannot climb onto private property to by-pass the cliff. Turn around and go back.

I did not make this up. It is the law.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Kootenai

you own the land around it, and FYI high water mark is crown land".

Laws to access crown land.

---You cannot trespass on private land to get access to crown land.
---If you are below the high water mark, yes, you are on crown land, HOWEVER, the landowner above the high water mark has first use of the land. You can use the land below the high water mark to transit the beach. You cannot loiter. In other words, if you are below a high water mark with private land above it, keep walking. You do not have the right to sit, camp, fish, or picnic. If you come to a cliff, you cannot climb onto private property to by-pass the cliff. Turn around and go back.

I did not make this up. It is the law.

Link?

[Kootenai]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Link?

Sorry, no link.

Had some people come up by boat to camp on the beach below my house. They said being below the high water mark, it was crown land and could do what they wanted. The RCMP showed up, at the boaters request. The RCMP contacted the Federal Dept. of Waters and Oceans who gave the information to the RCMP, who then told the boaters to move on.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Kootenai

you own the land around it, and FYI high water mark is crown land".

Laws to access crown land.

---You cannot trespass on private land to get access to crown land.
---If you are below the high water mark, yes, you are on crown land, HOWEVER, the landowner above the high water mark has first use of the land. You can use the land below the high water mark to transit the beach. You cannot loiter. In other words, if you are below a high water mark with private land above it, keep walking. You do not have the right to sit, camp, fish, or picnic. If you come to a cliff, you cannot climb onto private property to by-pass the cliff. Turn around and go back.

I did not make this up. It is the law.

why do you people always try to **** us landowners off. Always trying to find a loophole. No wonder we post our land. It makes me sick that a lot of people think that everything should be accessible to them. Go buy it...and then you can hunt on it. Or just ask first. Might surprise you what the outcome is.

[dadof5]

As I understand, the canals and roads in southern Alberta are not public, and you can be charged for trespassing. I have not looked into this in depth, but it makes sense. It is not the landowner charging though, it is the irrigation district.

[Kootenai]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

why do you people always try to **** us landowners off. Always trying to find a loophole. No wonder we post our land. It makes me sick that a lot of people think that everything should be accessible to them. Go buy it...and then you can hunt on it. Or just ask first. Might surprise you what the outcome is.

When they do get a piece of land to farm and look after (care for) they will then see what we have to put up with. Maybe it is just one hunter out of a hundred that is an ***hole. I am to busy to have to stop what I need to get done, to go clean up whatever they leave behind. I have had some nice fella's, male and female, ask for permission to hunt. If they are neat and clean, and polite, then they will leave my land in the same condition so I am not concerned about them hunting.
Surprise, surprise. Most of the 'decent looking ones' , I am guessing, are under 20 years old.

Don't try to look for loop holes to get access across our land. We have been through this over and over again, you are not the first to try and every one of these 'I have the right' hunters make it harder for the next ones.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Kootenai

When they do get a piece of land to farm and look after (care for) they will then see what we have to put up with. Maybe it is just one hunter out of a hundred that is an ***hole. I am to busy to have to stop what I need to get done, to go clean up whatever they leave behind. I have had some nice fella's, male and female, ask for permission to hunt. If they are neat and clean, and polite, then they will leave my land in the same condition so I am not concerned about them hunting.
Surprise, surprise. Most of the 'decent looking ones' , I am guessing, are under 20 years old.

Don't try to look for loop holes to get access across our land. We have been through this over and over again, you are not the first to try and every one of these 'I have the right' hunters make it harder for the next ones.

Were you quoting that back to me? I am not the guy that is trying to find loopholes, I am the fed up landowner.

[Kootenai]

Nope, I quoted you for other readers to see what I was talking about.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[catnthehat]

I dunno where the perceived right of way to Crown land over private ever started, but I was well aware from the time I was a child that even if the river flowed through someone's land, I was not allowed to cross that land to the water without asking!
Asking politely is the best thing to do.....
Cat

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I dunno where the perceived right of way to Crown land over private ever started, but I was well aware from the time I was a child that even if the river flowed through someone's land, I was not allowed to cross that land to the water without asking!
Asking politely is the best thing to do.....
Cat

I know where it started. In Calgary and Edmonton.

[Sushi]

I dunno where the perceived right of way to Crown land over private ever started

In some provinces, such a right exists and is legislated...(not that it matters here except some people just might not know)...

[Canuk]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

I know where it started. In Calgary and Edmonton.

This is tiring...

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Canuk

This is tiring...

I was simply just answering a question. Was not referring to you at all.

[Lefty-Canuck]

We now live in a world of "entitlement" and every one THINKS they are "entitled to their entitlements".....

Communication and developing relationships has always garnered me top permission on A+ land......and that is one thing that was earned.....I was not "entitled" to it......

I am not a landowner but if I was I can feel your pain fellas....

LC

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

We now live in a world of "entitlement" and every one THINKS they are "entitled to their entitlements".....

Communication and developing relationships has always garnered me top permission on A+ land......and that is one thing that was earned.....I was not "entitled" to it......

I am not a landowner but if I was I can feel your pain fellas....

LC

It is nice to hear some of you can actually relate to what we go through every year from September to December. Wish more had the same Respect and ethics that you do lefty.

[Blake]

I'm not looking for loopholes and I certainly don't think I'm entitled to trespass on private property be it private or corporate. I have taken great pains over the years and spent a small fortune on county landowners maps to make sure I'm not trespassing (as we all know farmers and ranchers land is seldom in one large block of property, but instead a section here, a section there), and have worked hard to show the folks that do give me permission to hunt, with my back or a bottle, that the access was greatly appreciated.

The objective of my post was to find out if I was doing something wrong, or if this was indeed something I was permitted to do.

There is obviously a fairly widespread misconception that the canal roadways are considered road accesses and open to waterfowl hunting, because every time I went out to jumpshoot on them I ran into others doing the same. Many others over the years. And I don't believe for one minute that every one of them was a skulking trespasser looking to get one over on the landowner

Moreover in the ten years prior to this that I've driven the canals, I've been met with smiles and "how ya makin out's?" by the landowners. The reaction I got last Saturday was a first for me.

A search of the internet showed it to be a common practice as well. With guides advertising it and papers/journals applauding the financial benefits this type of hunting brings to local community's in proximity to the canals being hunted.

http://pubs.cwra.org/doi/abs/10.4296/cwrj2003161


Was I ticked at this guy for roaring over and yelling at me and my child? You bet your @$$ I was. And I think I showed a great deal of restraint not returning his bad attitude in kind . I wouldn't wager many fathers on this board would take kindly to strangers scaring their children, and this fella definately scared my daughter.

I do appreciate all the responses and thank you.