License Costs

[HighWildnFree]

Another thread got me thinkin. We have a ridiculous defecit of f and w officers in this province due to lack of funding. If srd upped the license costs across the board to put more fish cops in the field, at what point would you call it too much? Right now a general tag is about 40 bucks and a wc is about 30 and a bowhunting permit is about ten. Id gladly pay 100 bucks a tag, 100 for my wc and 40 or 50 for my bowhunting permit IF the funds went where they are needed most. Imo that would be enforcment, but Id consider arguments that it would be better used for other things too.

How much is too much?

[luv2hunt]

Bite your tongue ,we dont need higher anything,just because you can afford it there are many others who can not. Do you really think that would help the money wouldn't get to where it's needed anyway,it would just end up in some other government slush fund. With the costs of hunting now days ,ie: gear ,guns,scopes ,gas why would you even say that. I have 4 of 6 sons who are old enough to hunt plus my wife,trust me it costs enough, i can afford it to but at what point is it enough???

[Straightgun]

I went through a big road block just outside of whitecourt at the truckstop yesterday. 4 co vehicles and 2 rcmp. They were checking for everything. I got through without a problem, but this was middle of the week during the day. Maybe if they set up on a sat they would have more success. Just seemed like a waste of resources to me. They weren't nailing anyone while I was there.

[Scott N]

The problem I would see with that is that government agencies are at the mercy of government budgets every year. Budgets change annually as do the priorities of the government of the day, and Fish & Wildlife related departments have never been a top priority. I don’t think any government-based revenue ever gets dedicated to something. For example, the revenue the government makes from the registration of motor vehicles isn’t spent on improving highways, etc. I doubt the revenue from hunting licenses would ever be re-spent on fish / wildlife related matters.

[HighWildnFree]

Im in the same boat. I buy tags for 3 of us, plus all the diesel, chainsaws, winches, arrows, camo, freezer paper etc etc etc. Huntin season is 5 to 10 grand a year as it is, whats another few hundred bucks?

[HighWildnFree]

Originally Posted by Scott N

The problem I would see with that is that government agencies are at the mercy of government budgets every year. Budgets change annually as do the priorities of the government of the day, and Fish & Wildlife related departments have never been a top priority. I don’t think any government-based revenue ever gets dedicated to something. For example, the revenue the government makes from the registration of motor vehicles isn’t spent on improving highways, etc. I doubt the revenue from hunting licenses would ever be re-spent on fish / wildlife related matters.

Good point.

[Perchfisher]

If the price of tags and wildlife certificates were put up that high in price I think so many hunters would just say to heck with it that there would be even less funding than there is now.

[flower]

Originally Posted by Perchfisher

If the price of tags and wildlife certificates were put up that high in price I think so many hunters would just say to heck with it that there would be even less funding than there is now.

Do you think that increased costs of tags would also increase the amount of poaching? or would it shut many hunter completely out?

I don't know if raising costs is the answer to put more enforcement out there. I do agree that more money would help, but I think that there are alternatives having more of the money already collected directly allocated back to F&W.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The answer doesn't lie with the costs as they are now IMHO....I think it is more how you manage the money you have coming in, not necessarily the amount that is coming in.

LC

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by HighWildnFree

Im in the same boat. I buy tags for 3 of us, plus all the diesel, chainsaws, winches, arrows, camo, freezer paper etc etc etc. Huntin season is 5 to 10 grand a year as it is, whats another few hundred bucks?

are you smoking something???? I can speek for 98% of us when I say we should not pay anymore..... $5-15000 a year is alraedy enough.I dont know to many people that could afford $15000 to hunt every year. Let all the rich americans and non residents pay way more for there tags. in stead of $250-1000 per tag make it start @ $1000-5000 per tag. Also if the money was put back were it came from we would probably be ok.In stead of ai all going in to a gernal fund account and waisted on other stuff.

We average class people pay way tomuch for everything already....

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The answer doesn't lie with the costs as they are now IMHO....I think it is more how you manage the money you have coming in, not necessarily the amount that is coming in.

LC

Well said. LC.

[Drewski Canuck]

All money goes to GRF, and each department submits a budget, which is reviewed and decided upon by Finance and Enterprise.

Net sum gain ZERO!!!!

If you want to make a difference, have Alberta Conservation Association, Ducks Unlimited, etc get your money (tax deductible, and no tele marketer getting a commission). They use the money to buy critical habitat in areas where development is destroying habitat, and access is dwindling. (IE Southern Alberta).

What I am most upset about is that the fines for enviromental damage is not diverted completely to habitat preservation and acquisition (I call this "Compensatory Habitiat Preservation").

Basically, another F & W Officer won't make a difference when the quarter section has been subdivided for acreages with a view of the mountains, and there is nowhere for the game to live.

Drewski

[ishootbambi]

alberta has plenty of money.....wildlife unfortunately is just not a priority. im fortunate to be in the position to be able to say screw it....ill pay more to go hunting, but there is a point where the cost will force many out. id hate to see price become a reason for more hunters to hang up thier gear for good. we just need to voice our wishes loud enough to be heard by those who dole out the cash in edmonton. that costs nothing.

another free alternative is to report infractions to the fish cops in a manner that allows them to do thier jobs. get the info and the best description possible and for christ sake dont blab all about it on AO and give them warning that the law is coming.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

All money goes to GRF, and each department submits a budget, which is reviewed and decided upon by Finance and Enterprise.

Net sum gain ZERO!!!!

If you want to make a difference, have Alberta Conservation Association, Ducks Unlimited, etc get your money (tax deductible, and no tele marketer getting a commission). They use the money to buy critical habitat in areas where development is destroying habitat, and access is dwindling. (IE Southern Alberta).

What I am most upset about is that the fines for enviromental damage is not diverted completely to habitat preservation and acquisition (I call this "Compensatory Habitiat Preservation").

Basically, another F & W Officer won't make a difference when the quarter section has been subdivided for acreages with a view of the mountains, and there is nowhere for the game to live.

Drewski

although its a good point.......its completely off the topic being discussed.

[HighWildnFree]

Just to clarify, my post said IF the additional funds went where we wanted them to.

And seriously guys, who cant afford another 500 bucks a year for tags? I save all year for huntin season as Im sure most do.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by HighWildnFree

And seriously guys, who cant afford another 500 bucks a year for tags? I save all year for huntin season as Im sure most do.

pointing out something like that is just poor taste....but i can think of several on this forum that would very likely have to say no to another 500........and dont forget some people have several kids that hunt too, that would mean an extra 1500.....2500 as the case may be.. the world is a big place out there....look beyond your front door.

[Drewski Canuck]

Dale,

The post, if you read it, proposed F & W officers, or where the money was needed most. The post was not off topic, and specifically, addressed the bigger issue of habitat preservation. A 100 new officers won't make a difference if there is no habitat or wildlife. Further, increased licence fees are not needed if we voluntarily give to organizations that are addressing the problem of loss of habitat and access, directly, as opposed through increasing licence fees.

Now do you understand the reply?

Drewski

[Bearen09]

..

[Bearen09]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

pointing out something like that is just poor taste....but i can think of several on this forum that would very likely have to say no to another 500........and dont forget some people have several kids that hunt too, that would mean an extra 1500.....2500 as the case may be.. the world is a big place out there....look beyond your front door.

X2 good point..

[HighWildnFree]

Wasnt meant to be a poke at less fortunate financially, sorry if that came out wrong. Fact is, hunting these days is not a poor mans game. Fuel is crazy expensive, any and all of the decent gear costs a pretty penny. Guns are expensive as is ammo, it aint cheap to hunt in this province period.

Mind you, Im of a different mindset than pretty much everybody here (at least the mindset everybody shows in public lol). Im a selfish sort, and to be honest it wouldnt hurt my feelings to see a lot of "hunters" hang up their gear and take up golfing instead. My opinion is that the serious guys that "do it right" (broad statement...I know) will continue to hunt regardless of the cost. Hopefully its the weekend warrior types that would give it up and find something else to do. It wouldnt break my heart to see less truckloads of idiots doing laps around the Alfalfa fields at 8 am every Saturday in November lol.

That being said though, I still do whatever I can to help teach new hunters what I consider to be the right ethics (which is to say, MY ethics).

Hopefully I included enough disclaimers lol, although Im sure I just sparked a lynchin lol. Ive got nothin better to do till about 3 anyway lol, so bring it on lol.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Well you don't become an experienced hunter over night....some guys are not fortunate to have decent mentors.

Yes there are the foolish (guys who don't know or weren't taught)....and then there are just plain fools (guys who do know but choose to ignore)....

Higher costs will cut our numbers down, which is what the antis want.....less voices to cause an "up roar" when they start changing things through Gov't lobbying....

LC

[ishootbambi]

drewski, i understand the reply....and agree with it. the op specifically asked about enforcement and more fish cops. granted the last sentence does mention arguments for other things so i guess youre right......my bad.

by the way....a lot of guys on this forum are already actively doing just that. monetary contributions are also not the only way to make a difference. there isnt a local F&G club in this province that couldnt use a few more volunteers for work projects like tree planting, fence repairs, and other jobs. membership is very cheap, and offering your time costs nothing at all. in fact, i suspect most clubs would accept the help even without membership.

[HighWildnFree]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Well you don't become an experienced hunter over night....some guys are not fortunate to have decent mentors.

Yes there are the foolish (guys who don't know or weren't taught)....and then there are just plain fools (guys who do know but choose to ignore)....

Higher costs will cut our numbers down, which is what the antis want.....less voices to cause an "up roar" when they start changing things through Gov't lobbying....

LC

All very valid points.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by HighWildnFree

Wasnt meant to be a poke at less fortunate financially, sorry if that came out wrong..

no i think it came out wrong in my post, not yours. i meant it would be in poor taste for me to name those i think might get priced out of hunting.

there are some very fine people around here that arent as financially comfortable as others, and the thought of them being squeezed out doesnt sit well with me.

[southunter]

If Allison can come up 100 million for education in 10 days like she claims, you don't think she could come up with a fraction of that for the F & W if it were a priority to the voters?
That is the problem not enough people tell the gov't that wildlife enforcement is a priority.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by HighWildnFree

Huntin season is 5 to 10 grand a year as it is, whats another few hundred bucks?

$5K to $15K/year............!!!!

What are you hunting with......gold bullets?

I'm sure that people that have deer/moose on their property or in their area spend nowhere near that amount. Even with one hunting camp in November I figure that it costs me about $500/season. How the heck do you spend that much?

[Sushi]

raise the fees to get a traditional practice into the elite sporting realm...NO THANKS. I had a much longer, philosophical answer but I'll spare you from that. Let's encourage education and ethics and discourage increasing the barriers to entry - they are high enough as it is.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

What I am most upset about is that the fines for enviromental damage is not diverted completely to habitat preservation and acquisition (I call this "Compensatory Habitiat Preservation").

Drewski

A twist on the directing of court fines.

Poaching fines, which for big game need to come into the realm of fines for poaching walleye, could be directed to the Enforcement department.


The real problem is the PC government's decision to treat Wildlife the same way they have treated the Healthcare system.

Many top dogs in the PC powerhouse want to see healthcare privatized, so in order to achieve this goal, they have "Broken" the health system on purpose so they can "Fix" it.

The same thing is happening with Public Wildlife resources. The AB PC government is breaking the public system of wildlife management, so they can "Fix" it with help of the Private sector.

More money is available IF we demand that the government gets serious with Wildlife Act infractions. It's all about how you vote.

Sad, but true.

[duffy4]

Do you know where the $ from hunting and fishing licences presently go?

The "Wise Foundation" gets a chunk and I think that money is mostly directed to AHEIA. And I wouldn't doubt "Hunting for Tomorrow".

The "Alberta Conservation Association" gets a major chunk. They do some good things with some of it but I think they squander some and they do have a staff of over 80 people. Some of them are highly payed folks.

That would translate into a bunch of enfocement staff and some needed Biological staff as well for Fish & Wildlife (the people who are ultimately responcible for management and enforcement of our wildlife and fish resources.)

[HighWildnFree]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

$5K to $15K/year............!!!!

What are you hunting with......gold bullets?

I'm sure that people that have deer/moose on their property or in their area spend nowhere near that amount. Even with one hunting camp in November I figure that it costs me about $500/season. How the heck do you spend that much?

Once you start adding up the total REAL cost of hunting season, youd probably surprise yerself with what you actually spend.

My fuel bill (for hunting) alone in a year will run $3000-$4000. This includes spring bear, summer scouting, fall scouting and fall hunting. When you do the math, its not that hard to spend $3000. A tank of diesel costs me about $120. Thats 25 tanks of fuel. Spring bear in April and May takes about 8 or 10 tanks (plus quad gas that I havnt factored in). Over the summer Im sure I burn at least 5 tanks for scouting. Come Sept 1 I hunt every day, so figure on a tank every 4 -5 days equals about 6 tanks/month for 3 monthes. Poof, youve just burned 18+5+10 tanks = 33 tanks X $120/tank = $3960. And thats just the fuel. Now buy 2 dozen arrows at 120/dozen. Theres 250 bucks. Muzzy em up for another 100. Then 600 bucks on tags for the 3 of us, now your at about 5 grand. Throw in laundry soap, scents, smokesticks, replacing a few treesteps here and there, leg ropes, bla bla bla.....all the consumables figure on at least another 500 bucks. Now your at about 5500. Spend a few nights in camp a few times at a conservative $200/trip and youre over $6k.

So then you bring your trophy home, and if youre lucky you have the skills and tools to process it yourself. Paper, tape, spices, sausage casing etc aint free. Figure on another $250 ( this is super conservative) for meat processing ( our bill is more like 800 a year, but that between 3 couples and LOTS of meat).

See? Once you start adding it up, its frickin expensive. And we didnt even take into consideration lost wages on time off to go hunting!