Alberta, the only province doing it wrong for decades

[steelhead]

I guess thier "made in Alberta" plan maybee the plan that is killing our fishery. I never had and have no faith in this government or its accociated organizations (especially the AFGA) to manage our fisheries. You cant keep big trout in this province, why doesnt that apply to other species?


http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/415624


As much as many of these organizations and the SRD say thier helping, were still in the dump. 10's of thousands of fish in the under 18", and we are forced to target the 100 or so spawners in the whole system. Doesnt make sense.

steelio

[FishHound]

I agree, the regs need to be changed. To bad the people can't open their eyes.

[Lethalconnection]

I too agree with you that the Alberta Fishing Regs are wrong for the most part. There is one river i have the privelage of being able to fish whenever and that the Bow River that has the proper regulations applied to it. Throw the big ones back keep the small ones.

[JohninAB]

Tell me how you can compare the fisheries in other provinces to Alberta's fisheries? Maybe take a look at fishing pressure and then relook at your assertion.

[Alberta Bigbore]

x2 Johnny.



Take Manitoba vs. Alberta. Alberta isnt even in the same league. downright embarrassing. The walleye draw tags make them laugh, LOL

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Tell me how you can compare the fisheries in other provinces to Alberta's fisheries? Maybe take a look at fishing pressure and then relook at your assertion.

You are correct, Alberta does have alot more pressure. However, the Biologists forgot to take note of this, due to the fact that Alberta has (for the most part) far more lenient regulations than ontario/manitoba. Except for walleye of course, but even then you are only allowed 1 over 55cm(encouraging the release of the bigger ones) but out here you are required the keep the bigger walleye(where allowed)
Pike is just ridiculous out here, keep 3 of the biggest pike you can catch
which retard thought up this idea? you are only allowed 1 pike over 75cm in manitoba and ontario has an even better slot program that protects pike between 70-90cm and allows for the harvest of 1 over 90cm if you wish. Both provinces also allow the harvest of 2-4 smaller pike(depending on the area)

If the AB biologists would take into account the fishing pressure that goes on at each lake and then in turn make the regs more strict, I think alot of lakes could be in manitoba/ontario class for fishing. Its really too bad that they are screwing up our lakes so badly.

Speaking of screwing up our lakes, just look at our trout lakes sad state to see them that overstocked.

[Morph1]

Kyle very well spoken,
I fully agree with you, why would someone need to take 3 large pike home ??
who are you feeding the neighbours ???
This is quite ridiculous that people that get paid to control the resources are working against it, mabe to keep their jobs on for the next seasons....,
and regarding the stocked trout lakes I strongly believe that the numbers are just made up, I don't believe those figures at all, and why would they stock last year a small dump like Cardiff pond with more rainbows than East Pit lake?
some things just don't make sense there...,
anything that gets managed on behalf of the government usually does not make sense and it's shocking, but there is nothing many of us can do, it will change when it's about to completely fail, they base their actions on failure, not on investigative study and when the poo hits the fan there is no one to blame ither

Cheers!

[cujo1969]

Wow Im pretty sure they have thought of alll these things but the fishing pressure is to high. They open a slot or smaller size limit on walleye and they get fished out before spawning soon you have 0 spawners in the lake. They set the size now to get them to spawn a couple times before being catchable size.

[JohninAB]

cujo, you hit the ball out of the park with your comments. Bang on! That is what I was referring to when I said look at the fishing pressure.

[steelhead]

I really dont believe in this fishing pressure theory.

They may have alot of lakes, but 3/4 of them are virtually unfishable due to remoteness and lack of accessibility or get few visitors.

Have any of you ever seen southern Ontario and cottage country? I have never seen so many lakes with sooooo many boaters, anglers, industry, docks, cottages, farms, invasive species, peeing swimmers, and development. Lake Scugog, 45 mins from TO, ringed with cottages and trailerparks and boat docks. Shallow, sloughy, weedy, half of pigeon. I have never seen that many ice huts on a lake anywhere in Alberta, summer is a boating fishing madhouse. But you can still get a 50 inch musky or take home a mess of walleyes. I have never seen a lake in Alberta that comes even close to lakes in South O. Not even pigeon. not even lesser slave. Heck, not even Sylvan, and its full of boats and cottages. So why do the hard hit lakes in South O produce so well and have good catch and keep regulations?

All the lakes within an hour of Toronto are hit very very hard. With a few million people in in such a small area compared to Alberta, Some lakes take a beating.

But

Those lakes are all surveyed every year, population studies done, aquatic invaders identified, regs changed to suit the waterbody, great fishery results. Since these lakes are monitored and cared for they become great fisheries. If they find a problem, they change the regs, "the next year" to regulate the fishery. Many of the regs we have havent been changed in 10 plus years. Its not the fishing pressure, its the management! And all they came up with in 10 years waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas, the walleye draw on 4 lakes. Now thats management.

I would like someone to provide information on the amount of studies and monitoring a lake like, say, Pigeon get in a year from our government or its groups,( cause i cant find any). I can guarantee, it wont be anywhere near what other provinces spend on damaged and hard fished lakes. And our fisheries reflect that.


Steelhead



Cujo, Johninab,

Spawners are sizes 18" and up. There may be 20,000 fish under 18" and may be 200 over 18" due to mortality in the age classes as fish grow.

Taking a few hundred of the under 18" barely hurts the 20,000. Taking a few hundred over 18" kills the fishery as the spawners have been decimated.

Think about that.

[wildman]

great thread guys!!!!!!!!!!
alberta's approach to fisheries HAVE sucked for decades.
the fact we have 1/10th the water of any other provice should warrant way more strict regs than any other province has.
if it doesn't mean profits, it is ignored in this province.
that's the alberta advantage...pay and you can rape and pillage all you like.
i too have relatives in several other provinces and what BIGBORE says is true, alberta's fisheries ARE a joke compared to the rest of the country.
sad to see...

[JohninAB]

steelhead, recent study showed the average lake in Alberta gets at least over 100 times the fishing pressure of the average lake in Saskatchewan. With our substantial fishing pressure, how do you propose to have a regulation for catch and keep walleye under 18 inches without totally obliterating the recruitment into spawning size?

Saskatchewan is reducing their limits on a lot of their lakes. Ontario is currently reviewing and reducing their limits as well. Where the ex's cabin is in NW Ontario (fly in), a lake equal in size to Pigeon, with fishing pressure of basically none compared to Pigeon, the limit there is still only 4 walleyes. Can catch a 100 walleyes a day there quite easily per person.

Only thing I would like to see Alberta do different right now, is get a more aggresive walleye stocking program going. I see they stock a few million into Lac La Biche Lake but that was it.

As for studies on our lakes, I know they do a few each year.

[orca]

Where in the regs does it say that you have to keep the biggest Pike you catch or the 6 to 10” trout in the stocked lakes? To me the problem is the fishermen themselves. Why do we have to depend on Government to do the right thing? I have gone to lakes and seen people keeping the small stocked trout and as many as the can keep. With barbless hooks catch and release is easy. Just slack off the line when they get close to the boat and you don’t have to even touch them. I love the taste of fish but I only keep enough for a meal. Not to take home and freeze. I went fishing with one guy who wanted to keep every fish we caught but didn’t even like to eat them. We went by my rules and he found he could fish longer because he didn’t limit out and we had little effect on the lake. If everyone followed this policy there would be far less of a problem at Alberta lakes.

[cujo1969]

I guess im in minority the lakes i fish have improved the last 10yrs mostly southern res. I they open up the smaller fish to keep and throw back the big ones soon you have lakes with few big fish but none in the recruitment reserve to get to spawning age. Would people be happy to go to a lake fish for 3 days and maybe catch 5 fish but they will be big?
As for sask. lakes where are they getting it right we fish makwa lake and others in the loon lake area and the walleye are fished out.

[duffy4]

Steelhead, "I never had and have no faith in this government or its accociated organizations (especially the AFGA) to manage our fisheries."

What do you have against the AF&GA?

Fish & Wildlife could use more staff and resources to do a better job of fisheries management but I think for the most part they do a pretty good job.
I am pretty sure you can not come up with a regulation change that will overnight make a big change in fish populations in Alberta.

That is not to say that changes could or should not happen. Going through the AF&GA is perhaps the best way to effect change in Regulations and management direction.

Robin in Rocky

Where in the regs does it say that you have to keep the biggest Pike you catch or the 6 to 10” trout in the stocked lakes? To me the problem is the fishermen themselves. Why do we have to depend on Government to do the right thing? I have gone to lakes and seen people keeping the small stocked trout and as many as the can keep. With barbless hooks catch and release is easy. Just slack off the line when they get close to the boat and you don’t have to even touch them. I love the taste of fish but I only keep enough for a meal. Not to take home and freeze. I went fishing with one guy who wanted to keep every fish we caught but didn’t even like to eat them. We went by my rules and he found he could fish longer because he didn’t limit out and we had little effect on the lake. If everyone followed this policy there would be far less of a problem at Alberta lakes.

Thats exactly what a few of us have been preaching here over the past while. Its great to see some fellow anglers take the same approach. Educate the fisherman, dont wait for the government.

Stocking programs are by far the worst soloution to the problem.
Its the easy way out and it ruins a natural fish population.

[steelhead]

Alberta FISH and Game Acc.

Note the word, FISH.

All it seems they care about is the game part. Great job on the trout. But as you can see, many people here are noticing theres not much happening to problem fisheries. I think they ran out of ideas or gave up, or just dont care. Kind of the impression myself and many others are getting anyways.


And who do I complain to? Who will listen? They are the ones saying they represent Alberta anglers. Thats where my liscence money goes.
I pay the AFGA and the SRD for a service. If I think I am getting rooked, you bet I will complain. Let them explain it to us.


Since they dont answer calls, i'll complain here, where my opinion can be expressed and discussed in an open forum with my peers.


Steeeeeeelhead


KyleM
many lakes in Alberta do not support successfull reproduction of walleyes( they do reproduce, but only small numbers survive). A small stocking program to fill only a few of these slow lakes, will take pressure off other fisheries where reproduction works and would be a great idea for this province. Kind of what they do with trout ponds out here. Gives others places to catch and keep trout without harming our quality rivers and lakes. I agree that not all lakes should be stocked.

[bearbait]

why is it that every week we have a new thread about this??i as well catch and release most of the time...but the smoker needs some fish...i agree that the number of big fish is down...with that bieing said the number of anglers is riseing very fast...more and more people are at the secret fishing hole when i get there and more garbage is left behind...when walleye tag system was introduced it met alot of flack on this board but i see it as an inroduction of the next stage of fishing in our province..the more anglers the more we must keep the regs in check...this is why i myself went to a c&r system years ago so my kids can enjoy fishing for years to come...

they put more in cardiff then east pit becouse it sees more pressure..and the afga is the voice of the hunters and anglers in alberta..
rob

[Waxy]

I really don't have any answers on the regs, especially when it comes to trout, but I agree with Orca and others. The root of the problem isn't the regs, it's fishermen.

I've watched the odd walleye taken out of Crawling Valley (I've never seen any enforcement out there), along with plenty of pike limits. There is still a large culture out there of fisherman who fish for their limit as their primary goal. They don't consider it a successful trip unless they get a limit of fish and keep them all for the frying pan or freezer. I think we've made incredible strides on this front in relatively short amount of time, but IMHO, it comes down to continuing to change the attitude of fishermen, not more or different gov't regs.

I don't have a problem with keeping the odd fish, I usually keep one nice pike a weekend for Sunday breakfast. Between my wife and I, we could keep and eat four if we wanted too, and many people do. That's their right, but maybe with some more info on the subject people's actions would change, regardless of the regs. I don't know.

I am amazed at the fishing pressure in AB. Coming from SK, where a huge lake like Last Mountain might have a 15-20 boats fishing on any given day in the summer, the numbers of boats fishing on AB lakes is amazing. One of the reasons I love Crawling Valley is the fact it's still pretty quiet out there, but I've noticed more and more boats and more and more pressure each year as word spreads.

Another factor is the quality of the fishery. My guess is, that of those 20 or so boats on Last Mountain, where the walleye limit has been 5 for the longest time, maybe 5 boats caught a limit in a day. (The flip side I'm told, is that the percentage of anglers who keep everything they catch on Last Mountain is the highest in SK, and one of the highest of any lake in Canada. So there is a downside to that as well, and I think it is one of the reasons that the fishery on Last Mountain isn't as good as it could and should be.) If the limit was 5 on CV, the lake would be fished out in a year because you can catch that limit in half an hour, every day. The fishing is simply better on CV in terms of numbers of fish caught and the ease with which they can be caught.

Like I said, I don't have the answers, my only suggestion would be for more of us to live by the words of Don Lamont -

"The fun is in the catching, not the keeping."

Waxy

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by orca

Where in the regs does it say that you have to keep the biggest Pike you catch or the 6 to 10” trout in the stocked lakes? To me the problem is the fishermen themselves. Why do we have to depend on Government to do the right thing? I have gone to lakes and seen people keeping the small stocked trout and as many as the can keep. With barbless hooks catch and release is easy. Just slack off the line when they get close to the boat and you don’t have to even touch them. I love the taste of fish but I only keep enough for a meal. Not to take home and freeze. I went fishing with one guy who wanted to keep every fish we caught but didn’t even like to eat them. We went by my rules and he found he could fish longer because he didn’t limit out and we had little effect on the lake. If everyone followed this policy there would be far less of a problem at Alberta lakes.

100% agreed with ya. Keep a few smaller ones, if you want a fish fry and let the big ones go. Its quite simple, however there is still alot of people that couldnt care a less about the fishery. Its bad to see the anglers catching onto the "release the big spawners" before the biologists(who get paid to keep our fisheries in good shape) even makes it the law

[Don Andersen]

Guys,

Through the efforts of some folks who have no affiliation with AF&G, this Policy is being drafted.

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlif...Jan25%2008.pdf

There are a host of issues outlined within this web site.

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlif...oundtable.aspx

The Quality Fisheries Policy is but one of them.

So far, the only opposition to a Quality Policy has come from AF&Gers.

regards,


Don

[bobalong]

Although I am not a big fan of the management of the walleye in this province, I think your comments should be directed more at the "boss" of our Fish and Wildlife biologists, than at the biologist them selves. It is not the fault of the biologist or F/G officers that there was no walleye stocking done in Alberta from 1999 until 2006, or that there were no officers hired to monitor our walleye lakes, or that in 2007 there was about 6.5 million dollars spent on trout stocking (I like trout fishing to but they are overstocking some of our lakes) and about 300,000 spent on walleye. The problem is walleye stocking is expensive and although the government knows that they are the most popular game fish in Alberta, and have been for years, they refuse to allocate sufficient funds to build and sustain the walleye fishery in this province. Other provinces and states spend millions every year, because the state of their walleye fisheries and the economy it generates is a priority, in Alberta it is not.
Anglers today are very efficient at finding and catching walleye, more than they have ever been. The equipment and the knowledge that is available now to anglers is probably 10 times (or more) than it was just 10 years ago. When was the last time you heard of someone fishing with a boat, gps, sonar, trolling motor, graphite rods, superline etc, actually getting skunked, it just doesn't happen very often. You can now hit half dozen websites on fishing and learn what depth the fish are at, what they are hitting on, what bait is working best, and what the best time of day is for catching them is, a lot of this information was not available before, at least not in the half hour or so it takes you now to find it.
I believe some of the strategy behind the protection of the small fish and the keep limit for big fish, is that our overall numbers of spawning fish on most lakes was far to low to sustain a healty population in a lot of our lakes. Most people can catch small walleye all day, but catching big fish consistantly does not happen near as often, although that is changing as well. Although stocking is used to compliment lake populations, I believe the goal is to have the lakes eventually support a natural population where no stocking is required.
Our lakes were depleted to such an extent before restrictions were implemented that it has taken 10 years or more just to get any kind of spawning population back in the lakes. These walleye have now spawned for a few years and I believe you will start to see healty populations with many different year classes appearing in our province, at least I am sure hoping they do.

[steelhead]

Thank you very much for the links Mr. Andersen.



Do you or anyone else know what the reasons were for the AFGA to oppose the Quality Policy?

It seems like a good policy with oppourtunities for some catch and keep and oppourtunities for these fish to grow to trophy status. Kinda works for everyone. Could also work well in many other scenarios and species.


Steelio

[abalon]

I have a cabin on a lake in northern Alberta which was stalked one time approx. 18 years ago. It took the fish about 5 years to get to a decent size. For years the walleye fishing was terrific this has slowly declined. There are likely several reason for this.(poaching, lake levels, reproduction, mortality etc.) I don't think those factors will ever change. This lake has not seen a repeat to the fish stocking since the original time. Yet they pour millions into lac la biche, pegion and sylvan. Why not spread them around a little. Or allow residents to purchase as a group and stalk them yourselves. This could help encourage the residents to keep a better eye on the lake and sustain a better population.
Does anyone know if you can buy walleye fry?

rb

[steelhead]

Thank you for putting me on your ignore list Sheephunter. I told you 3 times to leave me alone, and you wouldnt stop, and It took you to ignore me. And quite an insult you picking on my spelling. A typical response from those who have lost an argument on an internet forum

You win. As always


Havent seen you on in a while, whys that?


Steelhead

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by steelhead

Thank you very much for the links Mr. Andersen.



Do you or anyone else know what the reasons were for the AFGA to oppose the Quality Policy?

It seems like a good policy with oppourtunities for some catch and keep and oppourtunities for these fish to grow to trophy status. Kinda works for everyone. Could also work well in many other scenarios and species.


Steelio

Some AF&Gers seemed to think that the Quality Lakes should be spread all over the province w/o recognising that the bulk of Alberta's population occurs from Edmonton>south. Why spend the money and effort when no one lives there? Some also wanted "no opportunity losses" - I think this was a statement for business as usual with 5/day/any technique/bait etc. Business as usual got the province to where it is now. You'd had best contact the Past/Present Presidents of the AF&G Provincially to get their exact meaning.

Don

[Waxy]

Excellent post Bobalong. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Waxy

[SNAPFisher]

Thanks for forwarding those great links Don. I will be sure to read the information and have already started.

Good post Bobalong!

JohninAB, the walleye stocking program does seem to be ramping up. In 2006 a total of almost 25 million walleye were stocked and in 2007 that has more than doubled to 50.5 million. Lakes impacted were:

• Lac La Biche
• Primrose
• Bistcho
• Sylvan

You can get all of this information at:
http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlif...hstocking.aspx

It is also interesting to see some of the size classes they put into LLB in 2007 including some 40 cm wallies.

Lastly, I don't think those that are comparing AB to other provinces are aware of the numbers. I read recently that there are 100,000 fish sustaining lakes in Ontario compared to about 10,000 in Manitoba and then 800 in Alberta.....do you think it might be just a bit more of a challenge here in AB. AB is not even in the ballpark to compare with. Some of the slot size ideas exchanged here do sound appealing but I would stop short of calling AB an embarassment.

[Tako]

Better fishin in AB than BC by a long shot, but depends on what ya like. If you like to bonk your limit everytime out, you better not be complaining about crappy fishing, lol, you're part of the problem. If you like to fish because fishing is fun, and you've got a healthy respect for fish, maybe even let some legal ones go, take a couple for supper every month or so, you might have grounds to complain, but you can probly see the big picture and realize the fishing in AB is pretty dam good.

Oh wait, I forgot, hunting forum.

[Turbot]

Originally Posted by Tako

Better fishin in AB than BC by a long shot, but depends on what ya like. If you like to bonk your limit everytime out, you better not be complaining about crappy fishing, lol, you're part of the problem. If you like to fish because fishing is fun, and you've got a healthy respect for fish, maybe even let some legal ones go, take a couple for supper every month or so, you might have grounds to complain, but you can probly see the big picture and realize the fishing in AB is pretty dam good.

Oh wait, I forgot, hunting forum.

Why compare apples and oranges? Alberta doesn't have near the number of lakes or streams to fish as does BC. The stocking program in BC is very successful, as far as I am concerned. They definately have their fair share of "fish hogs", but the lakes and fish "per capita" cannot even be compared. I can find a lake with good fishing in BC for every day of a month with few or no other anglers.These lakes provide very good to excellent fishing. (Oops, I shouldn't have let you know. Me and my big mouth! )