Alberta Electricity Export Application AlbertaEx L.P.

[fvminnow]

https://classifieds.calgaryherald.co...D63AUFkg03BB3A

This was in the Legal & Tender Notice sections of the Edmonton Journal and Calgary Herald. Posting this on a Saturday of a long weekend is usually a gov't tactic to fly under the radar and check off the boxes for public engagement.

During the province wide heat wave this week, the System operator was warning of excessive demand and requested consumers reduce the load on the power grid.

This application is to export up to 2,000,000 Mega Watt hours annually for a ten year period via the line to Great Falls.

This is way above my pay grade, trying to rationalize the cautionary information from the system operator during a relatively minor surge in power consumption, and now this application for export. Anyone in the know?

[traderal]

Its called kicking the can down the road while we try to get money to balance the books and we will deal with the consequences at a later date. Not like we can just build more power generation in a year. Maybe Montana should generate its own power to distribute to California and face the regulatory hurdles and emissions. Maybe convert Ted Turners and other TV stars ranches into solar farms.

[nimrod]

Now add 100,000 or even 2,000,000 evo vehicles to this.

[densa44]

I saw this too and the op is right about the government's motives. I suspect that they can generate lots of wind and solar power but they haven't thought of a way to store it...just sell it to Montana for what ever they can get.

Stay tuned!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by densa44

I saw this too and the op is right about the government's motives. I suspect that they can generate lots of wind and solar power but they haven't thought of a way to store it...just sell it to Montana for what ever they can get.

Stay tuned!

Solar and wind power are not reliable, and the technology doesn exist to store wind or solar power, for high demand periods, so both have very limited value to Alberta.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Now we know why the two 500KV DC power lines were built. They were not built to supply us necessary power during peak load but built to export power to Uncle Sam for real American $$. Turn off your air conditioners.

[jednastka]

I don't know if this is a one-of application or just the renewal and/or increase to an existing permit. Alberta's instantaneous/live power usage can be seen here.


http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet


I've been checking regularly on this site for over two years.


The import/export status is show upper right. Right now, it is an export, but for much of the past two years, we have been regular importers.


When you look at the Generation summary, it does appear we are not running our much of the system at capacity (19,711 MW capacity with 9,847 MW total net generation), but much of our total; installed capacity today is not always available (cogen - private industry, hydro - water levels, solar - sun, wind - wind).


If I were guessing, this might be an attempt to run the system at a higher capacity (lower unit cost) and generate export revenues to pay for system enhancement/upgrade with the anticipated boom in EVs. Or am I just giving our government too much credit for thinking of Albertans first?


Vic

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by densa44

I saw this too and the op is right about the government's motives. I suspect that they can generate lots of wind and solar power but they haven't thought of a way to store it...just sell it to Montana for what ever they can get.

Stay tuned!

Scuttlebutt for years has been that the proposed transmission line has already been built, under false pretenses, my Leftie Buddy keeps reminding me. I did some work for the company that built it, Americans from Montana.

Grizz

[traderal]

One of those DC lines is just 1/2 mile from me. Those two lines are like arrows pointed at Montana and from what I read one time are being paid for by Albertans through hidden fees on our power bills. I'm sure the power companies are lobbying the UCP to have them run at full capacity to generate huge profits, once Albertans also pay for power generation infrastructure to supply the power. I remember reading that the Southern family was investing its money in natural gas fields in Australia while these lines were being built.

[Vantage Point]

Amazing how much the famous investors company is involved in this. https://www.blg.com/en/about-us/deal...berta-tie-line. Also an older article from Financial Post while NDP were in power - https://financialpost.com/commoditie...pped-like-rats.

[densa44]

If you have reservoirs like BC has you can pump water back up into the lake when you have too much power and let the water out through the generators when you need it. It works great and no batteries required. So buy cheap power from good old Alberta, and sell it back at a very nice profit.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by densa44

If you have reservoirs like BC has you can pump water back up into the lake when you have too much power and let the water out through the generators when you need it. It works great and no batteries required. So buy cheap power from good old Alberta, and sell it back at a very nice profit.

You say that it works great, what is the efficiency of doing this? How much electricity is produced by the turbines, compared to the energy required to construct and maintain the solar operated pumping system, and the generating system?

[traderal]

Originally Posted by Vantage Point

Amazing how much the famous investors company is involved in this. https://www.blg.com/en/about-us/deal...berta-tie-line. Also an older article from Financial Post while NDP were in power - https://financialpost.com/commoditie...pped-like-rats.

The graph showing the transmission rates in US states and Alberta are eye popping. As usual we get suckered. What I deplore is that the profits go state side.

[traderal]

Premier Danielle Smith: "Albertans must be able to turn on their lights, furnaces and A/C when they need it. They also need to be able to afford the electricity they use. To do this we need more natural gas generation brought online asap while we develop and implement nuclear, hydrogen, geothermal and other emerging technologies that can provide the base load power we need by 2050. Ottawa’s 2035 net zero regs will make this impossible to achieve. That is why our UCP government won’t let this terrible federal plan be implemented here."

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by traderal

Premier Danielle Smith: "Albertans must be able to turn on their lights, furnaces and A/C when they need it. They also need to be able to afford the electricity they use. To do this we need more natural gas generation brought online asap while we develop and implement nuclear, hydrogen, geothermal and other emerging technologies that can provide the base load power we need by 2050. Ottawa’s 2035 net zero regs will make this impossible to achieve. That is why our UCP government won’t let this terrible federal plan be implemented here."

For most of us, delivery charges are a major factor in our power bills, I haven't heard how she plans to deal with that.

Grizz

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by densa44

If you have reservoirs like BC has you can pump water back up into the lake when you have too much power and let the water out through the generators when you need it. It works great and no batteries required. So buy cheap power from good old Alberta, and sell it back at a very nice profit.

Why not just charge up all the EVs. Becomes more efficient the more you have.

[bighorn1]

Originally Posted by traderal

Premier Danielle Smith: "Albertans must be able to turn on their lights, furnaces and A/C when they need it. They also need to be able to afford the electricity they use. To do this we need more natural gas generation brought online asap while we develop and implement nuclear, hydrogen, geothermal and other emerging technologies that can provide the base load power we need by 2050. Ottawa’s 2035 net zero regs will make this impossible to achieve. That is why our UCP government won’t let this terrible federal plan be implemented here."

Amazing how brain dead our leaders really are. power already went up 128 percent and your worried about us being able to turn it on, give your head a shake women it's f ing redicoulous

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by bighorn1

Amazing how brain dead our leaders really are. power already went up 128 percent and your worried about us being able to turn it on, give your head a shake women it's f ing redicoulous

Just cancel your Disney channel and you'll be OK.

Grizz

[dmcbride]

We can thank the NDP for prematurely shutting down coal and messing with the power purchase contracts, the reason rates and delivery fees are high. Smith is stuck cleaning up the mess and we pay.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by densa44

If you have reservoirs like BC has you can pump water back up into the lake when you have too much power and let the water out through the generators when you need it. It works great and no batteries required. So buy cheap power from good old Alberta, and sell it back at a very nice profit.

Can you imagine how much energy would be needed to power a gigantic pump to get the economy of scale and move enough water uphill to then flow it back down and make power?

Fun thought but highly impractical. If one is using power in this way then there is a massive waste of power, horrible power grid management and terrible split of power generation types happening.

[densa44]

If the pumps are at water level and the pumps are not so large as they need lots of power it can work. Remember long before electricity windmills pumped water all the time.
The rub with wind and solar power is what do you do when you have too much?
If you can think of new solutions, your fortune is made!

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

We can thank the NDP for prematurely shutting down coal and messing with the power purchase contracts, the reason rates and delivery fees are high. Smith is stuck cleaning up the mess and we pay.

I agree with that to a point but Kenney is partly responsible as well making the decision to remove the electricity caps before he left.
We’re all paying for that decision now as well IMO.
Who would have thought the electricity companies would charge more with the caps removed?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...E&opi=89978449

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by densa44

If the pumps are at water level and the pumps are not so large as they need lots of power it can work. Remember long before electricity windmills pumped water all the time.
The rub with wind and solar power is what do you do when you have too much?
If you can think of new solutions, your fortune is made!

Not saying that it can't work, just that it would be so inefficient, as to not be worth the effort. Windmills pump water, but the volume is low by today's standards.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

I agree with that to a point but Kenney is partly responsible as well making the decision to remove the electricity caps before he left….

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...E&opi=89978449

The tax payer ends up paying for caps.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

The tax payer ends up paying for caps.

Yup, partially through rates and delivery fees I suspect.
Crappy deal either way for Albertan’s like usual…..

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

The tax payer ends up paying for caps.

The people on the regulated rate, are paying crazy rates now to make up the differences.

[traderal]

...

[Big Grey Wolf]

Pumping water uphill to run turbine sounds like a "Perpetual motion machine" just start it and it runs forever. O my gosh!

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not saying that it can't work, just that it would be so inefficient, as to not be worth the effort. Windmills pump water, but the volume is low by today's standards.

That's the bug in the ointment with most of these schemes, no such thing as perpetual motion, inefficiency is a fact of Life and cumulative, the further down the work plan you go. From Neil de Grasse Tyson, tough to argue with that.

Grizz

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by densa44

If the pumps are at water level and the pumps are not so large as they need lots of power it can work. Remember long before electricity windmills pumped water all the time.
The rub with wind and solar power is what do you do when you have too much?
If you can think of new solutions, your fortune is made!

It’s about scale and efficiency.

This one is 11 m3/s

https://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc...comox-dam.html


How much energy would it take to move that volume uphill back into the reservoir?

Windmills in the past used to bring water up from aquifers for irrigation purpose is not the same as pumping 11 m3/s of water.

An efficient battery storage breakthrough may come some time. But energy waste under a green pretext is still waste.