Confused between plumbing and cabinetmaking

[GoFlames]

Is anyone here a cabinetmaker? Would you be able to tell me what the pros and cons are of this trade? I am currently looking to get into plumbing but if that doesn't work out I might consider cabinetmaking. I think I would enjoy plumbing but I have a cousin of mine who is pushing me not to get into it as it is supposedly very hard on the back and you are working in cold weather a lot.

Any advice or suggestions?

[Kim473]

I would say plumber. You can create your own business and work out of your house and van. They make good bucks now days. Cabinate maker needs a large shop and who these days are going to have custom cabs made when you can buy good ones at half the cost ? Not very many !

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Both trades make about the same money.

If you're a good cabinet maker you're going to be in the $100,000 range. (Same as a ticketed union plumber)
However almost all good cabinet guys "sub-contract" so they make piece work and not limited to hourly wage, and yet still work for a large company.

Plumbing not so much. Plumbers that work for large companies work by the hour. The only way to go larger is launch your own company.
Having your own company, your wage is limitless. All depends on how big/successful you want to be. No different than cabinet making.

Oh, and if you enjoy being knee deep in frozen mud, jackhammering out a frozen trench in the middle of January, and covered in mud at the end of the day, become a plumber.

If you want to work inside a heated shop, or a heated house, working in your T-shirt and the radio on, and just have to blow the dust off your coveralls at the end of the day, become a cabinet maker.

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

Both trades make about the same money.

If you're a good cabinet maker you're going to be in the $100,000 range. (Same as a ticketed union plumber)
However almost all good cabinet guys "sub-contract" so they make piece work and not limited to hourly wage, and yet still work for a large company.

Plumbing not so much. Plumbers that work for large companies work by the hour. The only way to go larger is launch your own company.
Having your own company, your wage is limitless. All depends on how big/successful you want to be. No different than cabinet making.

Oh, and if you enjoy being knee deep in frozen mud, jackhammering out a frozen trench in the middle of January, and covered in mud at the end of the day, become a plumber.

If you want to work inside a heated shop, or a heated house, working in your T-shirt and the radio on, and just have to blow the dust off your coveralls at the end of the day, become a cabinet maker.

Thanks for the reply. Do you see automation taking over cabinetmaking? I've been reading that more and more shops are using cnc machines to do the work.

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Kim473

I would say plumber. You can create your own business and work out of your house and van. They make good bucks now days. Cabinate maker needs a large shop and who these days are going to have custom cabs made when you can buy good ones at half the cost ? Not very many !

If I become a plumber I probably won't go that route but stick to industrial and commercial construction.

[Ruger99]

I'm a plumber and I make good money and 90 % of the year in warm clean it's a good trade . The one that I was thinking about doing next is Hvac there is lots of work out there for Hvac people right now

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Ruger99

I'm a plumber and I make good money and 90 % of the year in warm clean it's a good trade . The one that I was thinking about doing next is Hvac there is lots of work out there for Hvac people right now

You work on the service side?

[leo]

I've been involved in construction my entire life. Between the 2 mentioned I would go Cabinet maker. I don't like mud or cold. If I was starting out again though I would look at Sprinkler Fitter, Elevator Mechanic or Control and Electrical. All warm work, protected trade and well paying.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

Thanks for the reply. Do you see automation taking over cabinetmaking? I've been reading that more and more shops are using cnc machines to do the work.

Automation is replacing hand work all the time in a trades.
One shop I a with has a new saw that one man can use to cut a a sheet of plywood precisely by himself with no other help.
It is set up electronically for the saw depth and cut width.
Takes less than half the time.
Same as their banding machine - one man can edge a project in far less time than it used to take.

Cat

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

Thanks for the reply. Do you see automation taking over cabinetmaking? I've been reading that more and more shops are using cnc machines to do the work.

There's "high end" and then there's assembly line cabinet making. Almost all standard homes use assembly line cabinetry, and the installers are no more than a glorified finishing carpenters. Those installers still do alright...but nothing more than any other standard trade.

Then there's a completely different "niche" where the good cabinet makers put everything together on-site and build stuff like this:

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

If I become a plumber I probably won't go that route but stick to industrial and commercial construction.

OHhh, so you want to stand NECK deep in a mud filled ditch and jackhammer a trench TWO HUNDRED feet long!

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

There's "high end" and then there's assembly line cabinet making. Almost all standard homes use assembly line cabinetry, and the installers are no more than a glorified finishing carpenters. Those installers still do alright...but nothing more than any other standard trade.

Then there's a completely different "niche" where the good cabinet makers put everything together on-site and build stuff like this:

Very nice. Did you do that all yourself?

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

OHhh, so you want to stand NECK deep in a mud filled ditch and jackhammer a trench TWO HUNDRED feet long!

True, that's exactly what my cousin was warning me about but it's really good money and plumbers will always be in high demand. Not to mention union protected.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

Very nice. Did you do that all yourself?

I'm a tile guy. I don't do cabinetry. I did the tile in that house.
But to answer your question, it was two guys that did all that.

The cabinetry was just over $600,000 for the house.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

True, that's exactly what my cousin was warning me about but it's really good money and plumbers will always be in high demand. Not to mention union protected.

Well....every good tradesman is in high demand...when the economy is booming.
But there is a huge slowdown now, especially in industrial and commercial. Just ask all the O&G tradesmen.

[GoFlames]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

Well....every good tradesman is in high demand...when the economy is booming.
But there is a huge slowdown now, especially in industrial and commercial. Just ask all the O&G tradesmen.

Oh I'm not questioning that at all. I'll have to look for a minimum wage job soon if I can't find anything.

[qwert]

I have never heard of any hobby plumbers.

Occupations that people would LIKE to do have lots of competition for the very few jobs, and this tends to drive the price way down, examples are piloting & heli-ski guide.
Q: What do you call a mountain guide without a girlfriend?
A: Homeless.

Cabinetmaking is not a protected or compulsory TQ trade.
There are no emergency double time call-outs or much OT.
Your customers are usually paying you with their own money.

Nobody is kidding themselves that the plumber wants to be doing the work for the joy or satisfaction.
There is lots of opportunity for 'golden time'.
Customers usually have few options.
Commercial & especially industrial customers are often paying with someone else's money.
Plumbers are not routinely expected to provide a huge investment in tools and equipment, and a fully equipped service truck costs much less than a well equipped cabinet shop.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[CaberTosser]

Lots of variety to both trades, cabinetmaking smells better. On service plumbing there's less work outside in the elements, but it still happens on occasion. Yesterday for instance I spent 8 hours under a mobile home in Okotoks heat-tracing and insulating all the clients exposed sewer lines, they were entirely bare and having just bought it last summer she didn't know. Awesome job by the home inspector missing details plainly visible from the access door......... Thankfully that type of work is a rarity for me, I sure as heck don't pursue it, but I don't tuck tail & run from difficult or unpleasant stuff because that's for pansies.

Hourly rate as an employee is better for plumbers, but probably can be similar for those self-employed.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Clgy_Dave2.0

Both trades make about the same money.

If you're a good cabinet maker you're going to be in the $100,000 range. (Same as a ticketed union plumber)
However almost all good cabinet guys "sub-contract" so they make piece work and not limited to hourly wage, and yet still work for a large company.

Plumbing not so much. Plumbers that work for large companies work by the hour. The only way to go larger is launch your own company.
Having your own company, your wage is limitless. All depends on how big/successful you want to be. No different than cabinet making.

Oh, and if you enjoy being knee deep in frozen mud, jackhammering out a frozen trench in the middle of January, and covered in mud at the end of the day, become a plumber.

If you want to work inside a heated shop, or a heated house, working in your T-shirt and the radio on, and just have to blow the dust off your coveralls at the end of the day, become a cabinet maker.

My wife is a cabinet maker, a darn good one, and I would disagree with some of the statements here. Cabinet makers are about the lowest payed of all trades, despite the cabinets being one of the most expensive parts of the construction process. The only way to make good money is to contract or sub contract, and at this point you are more or less just doing installation and other misc finishing work (probably about half of my wife's work is re-hanging doors and fixing up trim that carpenters have screwed up).

Furthermore, the actual construction of cabinets and doors is becoming more and more limited to commercial applications. CNC built packages are cheaper and that's where homebuilding is headed... finishing and installing pre built stuff. Most of the custom work my wife does is for the offices of large corperations.

If its just money you want the I would say plumbing for sure, cabinet making is a trade you do because you love fine wood working, appreciate better working conditions, and as a bonus I would say cabinet makers seem to be about the most decent of crowds in the trades. If you enjoy joking about you're co-workers sexual orientation or other spirited banter then the plumbing crowd might be a better fit.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

My wife is a cabinet maker, a darn good one, and I would disagree with some of the statements here. Cabinet makers are about the lowest payed of all trades, despite the cabinets being one of the most expensive parts of the construction process. The only way to make good money is to contract or sub contract, and at this point you are more or less just doing installation and other misc finishing work (probably about half of my wife's work is re-hanging doors and fixing up trim that carpenters have screwed up).

Furthermore, the actual construction of cabinets and doors is becoming more and more limited to commercial applications. CNC built packages are cheaper and that's where homebuilding is headed... finishing and installing pre built stuff. Most of the custom work my wife does is for the offices of large corperations.

If its just money you want the I would say plumbing for sure, cabinet making is a trade you do because you love fine wood working, appreciate better working conditions, and as a bonus I would say cabinet makers seem to be about the most decent of crowds in the trades. If you enjoy joking about you're co-workers sexual orientation or other spirited banter then the plumbing crowd might be a better fit.

Way to stereotype . One of my Grandfathers and an Uncle were both cabinetmakers, and also were both chronic alcoholics with a penchant for domestic abuse, but do I paint all cabinetmakers with that brush? pffft

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

My wife is a cabinet maker, a darn good one, and I would disagree with some of the statements here. Cabinet makers are about the lowest payed of all trades, despite the cabinets being one of the most expensive parts of the construction process. The only way to make good money is to contract or sub contract, and at this point you are more or less just doing installation and other misc finishing work (probably about half of my wife's work is re-hanging doors and fixing up trim that carpenters have screwed up).

Furthermore, the actual construction of cabinets and doors is becoming more and more limited to commercial applications. CNC built packages are cheaper and that's where homebuilding is headed... finishing and installing pre built stuff. Most of the custom work my wife does is for the offices of large corperations.

If its just money you want the I would say plumbing for sure, cabinet making is a trade you do because you love fine wood working, appreciate better working conditions, and as a bonus I would say cabinet makers seem to be about the most decent of crowds in the trades. If you enjoy joking about you're co-workers sexual orientation or other spirited banter then the plumbing crowd might be a better fit.

As I said...there are two "sectors" of cabinet makers. High end residential and "spec home" type cabinetry. I've been I construction for 34 years. Both Union and Non union, both residential and commercial. Your wife is obviously not in the high end.
ALL the high end residential cabinet makers I know make over 100K a year. Most of the plumbers I know in this same sector barely make that. ($35-$45/hr) Unless they have their own company or work commercial/industrial union with their per diem's and OT.

[Grizzly Adams]

Differences ? Plumbers don't think in high tolerance terms. Can't do that, you won't be a Cabinetmaker.

Grizz

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Differences ? Plumbers don't think in high tolerance terms. Can't do that, you won't be a Cabinetmaker.

Grizz

Unless you're a plumber who also does hobby cabinetmaking .

[Ruger99]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

You work on the service side?

I've done service . And new construction . Right now I'm in Fort Mack doing industrial. It's a good trade . But I'm telling ya from the inside looking out Hvac has a high demand . However everybody poops lol and plumbers will always be needed

[GoFlames]

How much can an average "assembly line" journeyman cabinetmaker expect to make? I'm not too overly concerned with money if working conditions are substantially better, besides my lifestyle isn't very extravagant at all.

[Mistagin]

Back in the days before my sojourn into higher education to get the degrees necessary for the career I just retired from I did select custom cabinetmaking - not kitchens, sometimes bathroom cabinets. All very high end stuff - most done through interior designers who arranged for me to meet with clients and design / build what the interior designer had in mind. Very lucrative, but very specialized, and lots of job satisfaction when complete. My motto was, "I can build anything - so long as somebody is willing to pay well for it." Sometimes I spent weeks / months working on cabinets. Often I had to design them from a picture given me by the client and their decorators.

Shop and tools were expensive though. I hope to do some of that work again when we get settled in a new retirement home.

I've also got some family members and friends who are plumbers - they've all done very well for themselves in their own businesses.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

How much can an average "assembly line" journeyman cabinetmaker expect to make? I'm not too overly concerned with money if working conditions are substantially better, besides my lifestyle isn't very extravagant at all.

Very few of the finishing trades actually work by the hour. But I'd say for that particular sector of cabinet making would be around the $50-$75k range. If hired by the hour, they'd be around the $25-35/hr range.

Almost all finishing trades "sub" out their work. They work for a large company, but work "piece-work" for install. Boarders, tapers, hardwood, carpet, tile, cabinets, finishing carpentry, stone-work etc.

Framers, Electricians, Plumbers, etc usually work for larger companies but all by the hour.

[thunderheart]

Originally Posted by GoFlames

How much can an average "assembly line" journeyman cabinetmaker expect to make? I'm not too overly concerned with money if working conditions are substantially better, besides my lifestyle isn't very extravagant at all.

my son made 29 dollars and hr in fsj ... 18 on the island ..
my bro in law is a plumber .. good money but doesnt like the grunt of under houses and broken lines and chit .. yada yada yada ...
depends what your soul calls out for .. cabinet work can lead to a lovely career in furniture building .. custom work .. anyway u look at it its ART ... every thing a plumber does is hidden away...lol if you have the choice .. dont choose for big money... choose with your heart and soul .. this will be your lifes work

[leo]

Post pictures of your hand tools, specifically chisels, planes and saws. I'll tell you if you have a future in cabinetry.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Way to stereotype . One of my Grandfathers and an Uncle were both cabinetmakers, and also were both chronic alcoholics with a penchant for domestic abuse, but do I paint all cabinetmakers with that brush? pffft

Sorry, I meant no offence. I've worked in the trades all my life, I have multiple tickets and have apprenticed other trades briefly before moving on. I currently work as a millwright and would classify millwrights as some of the most offensive people I've met... and I wouldn't have it any other way. Personally I like a lunch room where the humor is crude, the insults fly thick, and the laughs are hearty.

Cabinet makers and carpenters are a pretty tame group, when I got out of welding I first tried carpentry... I definatly did not fit in with that crowd. Just like this board... way too many hurt feelings.