Draw System Is RETARTED!!!!

[IHUNT]

Why is it that everyone I no that put in a draw for moose (30 plus hunters)that is from alberta and LIVES here didnt get there draw and people that come up here to work and are from out of province get drawn for moose here in our back yard??????????????

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by IHUNT

Why is it that everyone I no that put in a draw for moose (30 plus hunters)that is from alberta and LIVES here didnt get there draw and people that come up here to work and are from out of province get drawn for moose here in our back yard??????????????

Because the draw system doesn't distinguish between resident and non-resident....but those non-residents had to have a resident put in with them.

There needs to be 2 separate pools IMHO....one for residents (majority of the pool) and one for non-residents.

Yah yah I know the non-residents spend tourism dollars here once a year but I spend all my money here year round

LC

[ishootbambi]

its a priority system. i know it is extremely hard to find the instructions for the system....you know....being right in the draw booklet and all......but with a little research you too can find the answers like many others have.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Because the draw system doesn't distinguish between resident and non-resident....but those non-residents had to have a resident put in with them.

There needs to be 2 separate pools IMHO....one for residents (majority of the pool) and one for non-residents.

Yah yah I know the non-residents spend tourism dollars here once a year but I spend all my money here year round

LC

I like that idea.

[crawfy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Because the draw system doesn't distinguish between resident and non-resident....but those non-residents had to have a resident put in with them.

There needs to be 2 separate pools IMHO....one for residents (majority of the pool) and one for non-residents.

Yah yah I know the non-residents spend tourism dollars here once a year but I spend all my money here year round

LC

I dont buy that they spend tourism dollars here, if I got drawn for a tag up north I would have to spend the same as they would as I would need to drive up north, spend money on food, fuel, and hotels much like any other non resident coming here also, unless its from abroad where they may spend some money on air fare.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by JohnB

I like that idea.

I think every year on a percentage basis they should set aside a number of tags for the non-resisdents to go into a draw for .....say 10-15% then set aside an amount for outfitters 10-15% and then allow the residents to put in for the remaining 70-80%.

Non-residents, outfitters and residents have to be prepared for fluctuating tag number year over year though.....much like the non-residents and resident hunter do now.....the only ones with guaranteed available tag numbers year after year (in 5 year lumps) are the outfitters.

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by crawfy

I dont buy that they spend tourism dollars here, if I got drawn for a tag up north I would have to spend the same as they would as I would need to drive up north, spend money on food, fuel, and hotels much like any other non resident coming here also, unless its from abroad where they may spend some money on air fare.

I agree with you.

The arguement has always contained....."but look at how much they spend to come hunt here...." If you go to hunt moose in High Level and you are from Pincher Creek you would spend the same amount minus an airfare to carry out that hunt......as someone would coming from another province or state.....IF you don't factor in what they spend on a guide.

LC

[DarkAisling]

The draw results seem a little weird this year. One of my co-workers scored big time in the draws. His priority wasn't high enough on a couple of them (given the draws for the last few years), but he got them anyway. His cow moose was a surprise, as was his cow elk. Now he just has to get all of that time off work.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The only surprise I had on the draws this year was that i didn't get my mule buck draw....BUT considering all that has gone on in the area as pertains to mortality I am pleasantly surprised and happy I didn't.

Like I said long before these draws were done...this is going to be a "reset" or reboot" year for many areas. When a certain priority was a for sure in previous years things are going to get tougher in some areas....as they should. It shows that SRD is doing what they should to help the populations out.

Adjusting how draws are done and allocated to resident, non-resident, and guided hunters is in order as well IMHO.

LC

[Dick284]

If you are going to call things names at least spell that name correct.

R
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As for the draw system, it has not thrown nary a fly my way, pretty much predictable as it comes.

I do find a lot of fellers, say they've gotten drawn when it is their spouse's draw, or their kids, or their father in law's, or similar.

I've also heard of a couple of fellers who claimed to have draws, when they never did, for what purpose, I can only imagine.

[bmac]

if you are concerned why you didn't get drawn,phone srd.for example:zone 525 has had some poor winters,and poor moose population growth,due to native harvest,wolf predation and spraying of cut blocks.(moose don't eat spruce and pine) so the calling season moose tags have been cut back to 19 for residents.but wait,there are 39 calling season tags for non residents.the last time i brought this up on this forem i got crapped on by the arm chair experts.well its a fact.if we don't get our heads out of our asses soon with this government the only hunting will be by rich non residents.
before you start crapping on me again,check with fish and wildlife.the 5 year plan for non resident allocations is over this year,but the srd is in meetings with apos.right now to decide what they are going to do in the future.the response that i get to my letters from the minister is they want to do what is fair for the outfitters and the residents.
look at the draw results for 2011.just about every zone in alberta is at least 3 years to get drawn for calling season moose and most are 5 years plus. i don't know about you but i think this is crap.as a resident of alberta we should come first.but we don't spend as much money as the tourist hunters.okay, so 4 guys from new york get off the plane in grande prairie.they go to wholsale sports and buy their licences,then get driven by the outfitter to camp.they hunt,then get on the plane and go home.
4 guys from lethbridge get drawn for moose in 356.they drive from lethbridge,buy gas,have a couple meals and maybe one night in a hotel,buy supplies on the way they they forgot,etc.
who spends more money?
the meetings are going on now,so now is the time to write your mla.
we have to put pressure on these clowns before it is too late.

[elkhunter11]

Why is it that everyone I no that put in a draw for moose (30 plus hunters)that is from alberta and LIVES here didnt get there draw and people that come up here to work and are from out of province get drawn for moose here in our back yard??????????

Seeing as how easy it is to qualify as a resident in Alberta, try asking those people that drew tags. if they applied as a resident. If you are upset now, the answers you get may really make your blood boil. There are probably quite a few of them using an Alberta address to buy resident tags, and to apply for the draws as a resident.

[Steve D]

I'm with you: way too many tarts in this years draw.

[Acesneights]

Something is weird there is no way that in the zone that we put into early season was a 3 priority in 2011 and late season was a 1 to get drawn 100%. This year the rest of my moose hunting camp put in with three guys at priority 3 for early and 6 guys with mixed prioritys between 1 and 2 and not one person got drawn. Something is messed up. That or the wolves, or Indians or poachers hit em hard. In thirty years of our group going up to the same zone never has nobody got drawn last year I seen 10 a day and with such a mild winter I donno. I am not getting a tag this year however I really hope the system $&@?ed up otherwise based on the results of the draws things are seriously messed up at our honeyhole guess I'll find out when the summarys come out.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by bdarling

Something is weird there is no way that in the zone that we put into early season was a 3 priority in 2011 and late season was a 1 to get drawn 100%. This year the rest of my moose hunting camp put in with three guys at priority 3 for early and 6 guys with mixed prioritys between 1 and 2 and not one person got drawn. Something is messed up. That or the wolves, or Indians or poachers hit em hard. In thirty years of our group going up to the same zone never has nobody got drawn. I am not getting a tag this year however I really hope the system $&@?ed up otherwise based on the results of the draws things are seriously messed up at our honeyhole guess I'll find out when the summarys come out.

Betcha the outfitters got the same number of tags???....Nice to hear that F&W is "in discussion" with that stellar organization APOS, about their allotments for the next 5 years.... wonder why they are not in discussions with John Q. Public???....time to let your newly elected MLA that you are not happy!!...

[Mxyzptik]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I'm with you: way too many tarts in this years draw.

They probably disqualify based on spelling

[Pathfinder76]

I've lived here my whole life...........................and got drawn for Moose.

[eric2381]

Originally Posted by hal53

Betcha the outfitters got the same number of tags???....Nice to hear that F&W is "in discussion" with that stellar organization APOS, about their allotments for the next 5 years.... wonder why they are not in discussions with John Q. Public???....time to let your newly elected MLA that you are not happy!!...

Did you write your MLA a letter over this issue? I did. I'm just waiting for a response back.

[super7mag]

I ran into a customer yesterday in the local ufa , quizzed him how he made out on draws. He said him and his son got everything, 2 cow moose up north ( thier priority shoulda been staggerd) and 2 cow elk down south. Which he said his son shoulda got at a p4 but he should not have as he was a p1 and got a cow in 2010. They both hit mule buck tags aswell. I laughed and said he/they were lucky as I struck out on everything. He is a little choked as they had the moose draws spaced out so every other year one or the other would be drawn , and every 2-3 years get cow elk. So in the comming years they'll be Fubarred, as far as being spaced out. I dunno but it seems things are a bit off this year,

[elkhunter11]

I ran into a customer yesterday in the local ufa , quizzed him how he made out on draws. He said him and his son got everything, 2 cow moose up north ( thief priority shoulda been staggerd) and 2 cow elk down south. Which he said his son shoulda got at a p4 be he should not have as he was a p1 and got a cow in 2010. They both hit mule buck tags aswell. I laughed and said he/they were lucky as I struck out on everything. He is a little choked as they had the moose draws spaced out so every other year one or the other would be drawn , and every 2-3 years get cow elk. So in the comming years they'll be Fubarred, as far as being spaced out. I dunno but it seems things are a bit off this year,

He has only himself to blame, if he had used 999 for one set of applications, this could not have happened.

[bagwan]

The dumb nuts could have used the 999 feature. To me thats the best part in the draw system especialy for moose as you can partner up. Goes back to read and understand the book. A lot of people who don't get draws throw four
applications in and if one guy has zero prioity thats the one that counts. Methinks a lot of the whiners about the system screw themselves. It may not be the best but chaos would erupt if we didn't have it.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

He has only himself to blame, if he had used 999 for one set of applications, this could not have happened.

why 999 a cow elk on a p1 when it's historically been at least a p4? I think 999 is used when you want to gain priority but don't want to hunt that particular animal that year, you are ussually expecting to be drawing the tag if you do not use 999. In this case he never dreamed of getting a tag on p1, for elk, but he did expect to get his moose draw. His son was opposite expecting elk but not moose on a p2, so I beleive if either had an inkling they would be drawn on low priority they would have gladly 999, to keep to there rotation. Make sense or not?

[bowhunter9841]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I think every year on a percentage basis they should set aside a number of tags for the non-resisdents to go into a draw for .....say 10-15% then set aside an amount for outfitters 10-15% and then allow the residents to put in for the remaining 70-80%.

Non-residents, outfitters and residents have to be prepared for fluctuating tag number year over year though.....much like the non-residents and resident hunter do now.....the only ones with guaranteed available tag numbers year after year (in 5 year lumps) are the outfitters.

LC

I agree with most of what you have written here, however....I believe that all non resident hunters should have to put in for draws, whether or not they use the services of an outfitter! Hunters that choose to use an outfitter should have to be drawn for the animal they want, in the zone they want! Period!

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by super7mag

why 999 a cow elk on a p1 when it's historically been at least a p4?

I think thats pretty obvious as to WHY.....considering that the approach he used seems to have thrown a wrench in his plans.

A person should use 999 if they dont wish to draw, period. Doesnt matter what 'historically' says, if you're trying to stagger draws, IMO a person should just apply for the ones they want and 999 the rest.

[rem338win]

They need to start a forum just for draws whini.....complaints.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

I think thats pretty obvious as to WHY.....considering that the approach he used seems to have thrown a wrench in his plans.

A person should use 999 if they dont wish to draw, period. Doesnt matter what 'historically' says, if you're trying to stagger draws, IMO a person should just apply for the ones they want and 999 the rest.

Yup exactly.....some people have the system figured out and some people would rather blame the system for something they did on their own.

Nothing is a guarantee with draws....hence why it is a draw.

....this is partially why the 999 code was brought in.....to help people plan better....but it props up a new batch of people blaming and complaining about the system.

LC

[Pudelpointer]

If I read the OPs post correctly, he is not complaining about "non-resident Canadians", but new resident Albertans.

People on here are often confused about draws, NR Canadian draws (not too clear about this myself apparently), guide outfitter allocations, etc.

NR Canadians CAN apply for SOME draws in SOME areas, but there is apparently a cap on the number of NR Canadian draw tags available in each zone.

NR Aliens (Americans, Brits, and everyone else) can not apply for draws period. They can only hunt in general seasons with a hunter host, or under the authority of a G/O allocation.

New resident Albertans can apply for all draws..... and why the hell shouldn't they?

Or, is the OP suggesting that many new Albertans are truthfully only transient workers who still have residency in their home province and are lying about their residency?

[Rantastic]

I got 0 of 9 draws this yr!!!! but I was due for 5 of them and 999'ed them all because ill be in university this yr with meat in the freezer and no time to hunt.... next yr ill be due for 6 or 7 of them because of all the priority i have been building....

Your friends who were drawn on priority 1 should not be shocked at all... If he has been paying attention to the trends down south they have been almost doubling cow elk tags for the last few years due to farmer complaints of too many elk ruining their property. Last year all of the priority 2s were drawn so it was easy to see they would be giving out more again this yr and the 1's would get drawn. It's an every other yr draw now. And 999ing is the only way to go if you actually call yourself a hunt planner. Not just assume over a dozen variables that make up draw success won't have changed from last year lol...

We do have a complicated draw system but its not that complicated that a feller should ever be surprised by any of the results IMO.

Some very wise things have been said on the topic of tag allocation pools in this thread. Especially keeping 90% for the home team and the scraps go to the non residents and aliens, maybe exclude them from elk or moose altogether. Look at the scraps saskatchewan gives out... 1 week a yr and only for whitetails... And look at the quality they have there because of it. Just sayin.

[super7mag]

Well for one I sure as Hell ain't whining cause I could careless what other people drew! I thought it was odd and still seems to be . And when I said south I shoulda been more specific as in south of here as in edgerton, not typically an easy draw as in p4 for cow is the norm and P8 or more for bull is the norm. Sorry to relay a simple conversation .

[elkhunter11]

Well for one I sure as Hell ain't whining cause I could careless what other people drew! I thought it was odd and still seems to be . And when I said south I shoulda been more specific as in south of here as in edgerton, not typically an easy draw as in p4 for cow is the norm and P8 or more for bull is the norm. Sorry to relay a simple conversation .

And the fact is that if you want to increase your priority, without being drawn, 999 is the correct way to do this.