Current Alberta government heartless for Central Alberta cardiac patients. Let 'em die.

[avb3]

http://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news/...t-coming-soon/

"Red Deer cardiac surgeons said they believe they can save about 30 lives a year if Red Deer Regional Hospital Centre gets the catheterization procedure used widely in Edmonton and Calgary hospitals.

Central Alberta heart attack victims are currently given medications that break down clots before they are transferred to Calgary or Edmonton by ground or air ambulance — considered an inferior treatment."

Yes, I AM blaming our current government, as this is a decision that could be made now. But oh no, apparently even though there are to NDP MLA's from Red Deer, the health minister advises "we are not going to rush into this".

Don't get me going, otherwise this thread will get locked.

Here is a Facebook page in support of the change:

https://www.facebook.com/CentralAlbe...ation/?fref=ts

[Don Andersen]

Red Deer Doctors were aware of the issue <>2007. No point in hurrying.

Don

[Mikeham]

They can't win on this forum! Spend, and the government is criticized. Acknowledge the financial restraints, and get criticized. Make up your minds. Where was the long range planning of the PC government if this is such an issue? Why is it all of a sudden entirely the fail of the left wing commies who hate anyone without a copy of the Communist Majifesto?!

[rugatika]

I wouldn't get too excited about it. The decision is made in Canada more than most like to admit.

What did you expect? It's a function of the system. (and no...not endemic to any one government)

[Grizzly Adams]

Red Deer hospital had a good portion of their operating rooms shut down as well, earlier this year, because of human error. During renovations, someone neglected ensure all the water lines were shut off. Result was that they were flooded and restoration took weeks. Can't blame that on the government.

Grizz

[Weedy1]

I'm not sure how the Red Deer Hospital could even consider itself as having a Cardiology department without a cardiac catheterization lab. This is akin to being a plumber without a wrench.

[FCLightning]

Improved ambulance response times in outlying areas would probably do more to save lives than any in hospital improvement for one specific cause of dying.

[Bitumen Bullet]

Healthcare should be a high priority and money spent there should not be as political as it is.

Bu my concern is not so much the cost of saving those people but is that the best way to spend such money? It sure looks like it but there seems to be other areas that might be able to save more with less.

Not that I think giving the system more money would help with that.

The incentives built into the current system encourage actions that result in the early death of some and I'm not sure that can be tweaked away, it is the idea behind our single payer system.

In the meantime what is the life of an Albertan worth to the system? Can we have some way to ensure that limit is equally applied to all?

[Newview01]

This goes for all of AB.

Unfortunately an additional available procedure in a busy hospital will garner more political brownie points than being able to pick up an injured food producer 60 miles out of town.

That said, it is a good thing we have STARS. They have saved a lot of lives.

[densa44]

If you really want to save lives and I assume we all do; stop smoking, don't speed, don't drink and drive and get more exercise.

We all seem to want some one else to fix what is wrong.

If we all try harder to live a healthier life style, that will do way more than any government ever can.

Someone who is better at this than me (read younger) post what damage car crashes cause.

[Okotokian]

I would imagine one could identify 100 things that could be done or implemented that would save lives, but the cost for all of them together would be astronomical.

"However, AHS’s report makes clear it does not want to see “one-off decisions made in an ad hoc manner and that they want to use our resources the best we can throughout the province,” said Hoffman."

I have to agree with the above statement. But she DOES need to make sure that AHC is up off their rears and doing the evaluations they are supposed to be doing in a timely manner. It shouldn't take 5 years to figure out what to do.

[avb3]

The Red Deer hospital is the fourth most active hospital in Alberta for serious cases, and certainly not a "one of". Only the Foothills, University and the Alex are more active. It covers a huge area.

From the Facebook posting today:

Central Alberta has the fourth most acute hospital in the entire Province in Red Deer. It is so far ahead of any of the other Regional Hospitals in acuity that there is no comparison. The data on this is overwhelming. We trail only the University Hospital in Edmonton, the Foothills Hospital, and the Royal Alexandra Hospital in acuity (the complexity of patients).

[Fur]

"This is a really important issue, and I think that it’s something that hits everyone personally. In thinking about a mom or a dad or a child who could have had their life saved, of course, we want to do everything we can to save that life."

Child? Does she even know what this procedure is? Children do not need cath labs! Having politicians and business people deciding what is needed in the healthcare system is exactly what is wrong with the healthcare system. Being a physician should be a requirement to be minster of health or high up AHS positions. For every front line work in AHS there are 16 administrative positions. Cut those and we will have lots of money to save lives...

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by avb3

The Red Deer hospital is the fourth most active hospital in Alberta for serious cases, and certainly not a "one of". Only the Foothills, University and the Alex are more active. It covers a huge area.

From the Facebook posting today:

Central Alberta has the fourth most acute hospital in the entire Province in Red Deer. It is so far ahead of any of the other Regional Hospitals in acuity that there is no comparison. The data on this is overwhelming. We trail only the University Hospital in Edmonton, the Foothills Hospital, and the Royal Alexandra Hospital in acuity (the complexity of patients).

Of course they would be third or fourth, but that doesn't mean they would handle anywhere near the numbers of cases. NO way they handle a little less cases in a city of under 100,000 than foothills in a city of over a million.

[wags]

So just points to consider. And I am in favor of additional services being offered, but also work for AHS at the Red Deer Hospital.

Every facility in the province needs something. Whether it's equipment to further services, new introduced services, infrastructure and so on. There is absolutely no facility, town or city that is exempt from this.

As there is limited funds to draw from, and those funds getting tighter every year, it is very important that it be spent on what gets the best ROI. Yes, of course, Red Deer and it's surrounding citizens would benefit from this. Some would argue that increasing services in the North would be more beneficial to the citizens in that area. Others might argue that a new facility or renovations to aging complexes across the province (notably in the east) would be the best investment.

At the end of the day, everyone wants something - and no where near enough $$ to go around.

Unfortunately, you can't pin this on the Government. Where the Health Minister alludes to 'one off's' is referring to the fact that we are a provincial health authority now, and decisions have to be looked upon on a provincial level.

I know many on here just read the little blurbs in the media and have it all figured out, but i can assure you, there is a great deal that goes into each decision to hopefully ensure the money is being spent with the best ROI in mind, and every single decision made leaves others feeling like they got the brunt of the stick since they didn't get what they 'want'.

Keep in mind, folks in Red Deer don't have far to go to get some of these treatments. There's nearly half a province north of Edmonton that does not have that advantage.

Cheers

[wags]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Of course they would be third or fourth, but that doesn't mean they would handle anywhere near the numbers of cases. NO way they handle a little less cases in a city of under 100,000 than foothills in a city of over a million.

Actually, we do. Edmonton/Calgary have a few major hospitals, and serve mostly their city populous. Red Deer, and other 'regional' hospitals not only serve their city, but a majority of the populous surrounding our city.

Red Deer ER is the third busiest ER in the province.

This is another example of my previous post of funding allocation. Red Deer should have a second hospital, based on the amount of people it serves. Of course, I don't see that happening for some time now

Cheers

[Fur]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Of course they would be third or fourth, but that doesn't mean they would handle anywhere near the numbers of cases. NO way they handle a little less cases in a city of under 100,000 than foothills in a city of over a million.

On top of that it is the catchment area that really matters also. Calgary's area even includes Cranbrooke BC. I think Calgary services just under 2 million people.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Fur

"This is a really important issue, and I think that it’s something that hits everyone personally. In thinking about a mom or a dad or a child who could have had their life saved, of course, we want to do everything we can to save that life."

Child? Does she even know what this procedure is? Children do not need cath labs! Having politicians and business people deciding what is needed in the healthcare system is exactly what is wrong with the healthcare system. Being a physician should be a requirement to be minster of health or high up AHS positions. For every front line work in AHS there are 16 administrative positions. Cut those and we will have lots of money to save lives...

First, do you know about medical procedures?

Secondly, the bolded part - that's a flat out lie.

Thirdly, while some administration could be thinned a little, please do not discredit the work these people do, and the importance of it in our Health Care. Believe it or not, your medical people don't get much done without the administration people. That's the way businesses/organizations work. Some do the heavy lifting, others have to order the parts those have to lift, and someone has to pay everyone to do it.

Cheers

[wags]

Originally Posted by Fur

On top of that it is the catchment area that really matters also. Calgary's area even includes Cranbrooke BC. I think Calgary services just under 2 million people.

No it doesn't. Cranbrooke is Interior Health, BC.

[Bitumen Bullet]

Originally Posted by densa44

If you really want to save lives and I assume we all do; stop smoking, don't speed, don't drink and drive and get more exercise.

People will still die even if we demand all comply to some ideal lifestyle. In this case that ideal lifestyle (no smoking, drinking, driving... ) would result in more expensive healthcare. IMO better to inform people and let them live the life they want and have services accommodate, after all it is people paying for those services.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by wags

So just points to consider. And I am in favor of additional services being offered, but also work for AHS at the Red Deer Hospital.

Every facility in the province needs something. Whether it's equipment to further services, new introduced services, infrastructure and so on. There is absolutely no facility, town or city that is exempt from this.

As there is limited funds to draw from, and those funds getting tighter every year, it is very important that it be spent on what gets the best ROI. Yes, of course, Red Deer and it's surrounding citizens would benefit from this. Some would argue that increasing services in the North would be more beneficial to the citizens in that area. Others might argue that a new facility or renovations to aging complexes across the province (notably in the east) would be the best investment.

At the end of the day, everyone wants something - and no where near enough $$ to go around.

Unfortunately, you can't pin this on the Government. Where the Health Minister alludes to 'one off's' is referring to the fact that we are a provincial health authority now, and decisions have to be looked upon on a provincial level.

I know many on here just read the little blurbs in the media and have it all figured out, but i can assure you, there is a great deal that goes into each decision to hopefully ensure the money is being spent with the best ROI in mind, and every single decision made leaves others feeling like they got the brunt of the stick since they didn't get what they 'want'.

Keep in mind, folks in Red Deer don't have far to go to get some of these treatments. There's nearly half a province north of Edmonton that does not have that advantage.

Cheers

Good points. One thing I'd like to see is a re-focusing of efficiency and more importantly a long hard look at where government money is being spent. Edmonton just spent 24 million on a foot bridge for example. Very cool bridge etc across the river, but how important is a foot bridge compared to life saving medical equipment? (yes I know...different branches of gov, but it all comes out of the same pile at some point)

Just one of many examples of mis-spent money. IMHO. Saving lives vs cool bridges, art, SUV's for MLA's, etc etc.

[wags]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Good points. One thing I'd like to see is a re-focusing of efficiency and more importantly a long hard look at where government money is being spent. Edmonton just spent 24 million on a foot bridge for example. Very cool bridge etc across the river, but how important is a foot bridge compared to life saving medical equipment? (yes I know...different branches of gov, but it all comes out of the same pile at some point)

Just one of many examples of mis-spent money. IMHO. Saving lives vs cool bridges, art, SUV's for MLA's, etc etc.

This I would absolutely agree with, including within AHS.

Cheers

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by wags

Actually, we do. Edmonton/Calgary have a few major hospitals, and serve mostly their city populous. Red Deer, and other 'regional' hospitals not only serve their city, but a majority of the populous surrounding our city.

Red Deer ER is the third busiest ER in the province.

This is another example of my previous post of funding allocation. Red Deer should have a second hospital, based on the amount of people it serves. Of course, I don't see that happening for some time now

Cheers

Again, "third busiest" doesn't mean a thing without numbers. And Calgary hospitals serve as large an area as Red Deer does, with many many more people. Where do you think people in Airdrie or Okotoks, or Nanton, or Canmore, Or Banff, or Strathmore, or.... I could go on and on, go for serious health issues? Calgary.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Again, "third busiest" doesn't mean a thing without numbers. And Calgary hospitals serve as large an area as Red Deer does, with many many more people. Where do you think people in Airdrie or Okotoks, or Nanton, or Canmore, Or Banff, or Strathmore, or.... I could go on and on, go for serious health issues? Calgary.

I'm sorry, i don't have the numbers for you. I understand what you're saying. How many hospitals does Calgary have? How many does Red Deer have? So with Calgary having several major hospitals, a dedicated Children's Hospital, and a dedicated Cancer Center, where Red Deer has 1 hospital - all encompassing - it's pretty easy to see how the numbers can climb very quickly.

And I'm saying that Red Deer ER is the third busiest ER in the province. Not that Red Deer sees more patients than Calgary. This is a facility to facility reference.

Cheers

[3blade]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Good points. One thing I'd like to see is a re-focusing of efficiency and more importantly a long hard look at where government money is being spent. Edmonton just spent 24 million on a foot bridge for example. Very cool bridge etc across the river, but how important is a foot bridge compared to life saving medical equipment? (yes I know...different branches of gov, but it all comes out of the same pile at some point)

Just one of many examples of mis-spent money. IMHO. Saving lives vs cool bridges, art, SUV's for MLA's, etc etc.

Right on the 'money' here.

Speaking to healthcare specifically....What AHS needs is a non-political auditor. It is ridiculous that the executive can urinate away millions of dollars "redefining our vision". Bunch of pc crap. Seriously, get to work. Front line staffing isnt maintained, frontline managers are stretched beyond their capacity to be effective. It's time for a long hard look into the endless vice-whatever and chief-this or that and other titles that are slobbering away at the trough. But of course, they are the ones with political connections. And there it is, the usual cronyism that is draining tax dollars at every level.

[catnthehat]

Dunno why you you decided you needed to put that title up like that .
The issue was going on long before the current Government came into power
Cat

[Fur]

Originally Posted by wags

First, do you know about medical procedures?

Secondly, the bolded part - that's a flat out lie.

Thirdly, while some administration could be thinned a little, please do not discredit the work these people do, and the importance of it in our Health Care. Believe it or not, your medical people don't get much done without the administration people. That's the way businesses/organizations work. Some do the heavy lifting, others have to order the parts those have to lift, and someone has to pay everyone to do it.

Cheers

Yes I know about medical procedures. Tell me of a case involving a child (less than 18 years old) in Red Deer since the history of Red Deer that died because they could not get to a cath lab.

You sound like a hospital admin person. AHS is top heavy and going to tip soon.
Check your stats. Cranbrooke population is sent to Calgary for major procedures and trauma.