Olds range under threat of closure

[Porcupine]

Close gun range: residents
John Gleeson, Mountain View Gazette

The county will obtain legal advice and make it public after residents surrounding the Mountain View Marksman Association shooting range west of Olds lined up to demand the county make the noise stop.

Twenty-three landowners from Div. 6 and 7 signed a letter dated Sept. 1 and circulated by former councillor Jack Peck, calling for the county to start proceedings to pull the gun club’s permits and have all shooting “cease immediately on the grounds that the unnecessary noise is a huge nuisance factor” for residents in the area.

“Over the past three years several attempts have been made with the gun club and county council to arrive at a workable arrangement so the gun club could be an acceptable entity in the community,” the letter says.

“It appears that a workable arrangement will never be reached as the gun club grows in numbers; therefore closing the gun club down and forcing them to find a more suitable location outside of a resident-occupied area is the only solution.” Read more...

Source; http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0921_10/news06.html

[Grizzly Adams]

Since I'm running for councillor, in division 6, which borders on the west side of the road, the gun range is on, part of this one would fall on me, if I'm elected. Going out to talk to some of the people there, next week. Can't say I'm unsympathetic to their problem. She's a far different deal, than when it was run by the locals and the membership was around 200. Now, they tell me it's up to 1500, the large majority from Calgary.

Grizz

[GeoTrekr]

I can understand growth being a factor here, but I would also like to know how much is truth, and how much BS is flying surrounding this issue.

I seem to recall the range hiring a professional to measure noise levels around the range, and they were negligible. It seems to me some citiots have moved out to "cottage country", and certain activities don't align with their former lifestyle...

Someone wants the range closed down, and it isn't because of the noise (as proven by some creative lying in the past as well, involving shooting at times the range wasn't even open for operation).

[SkytopBrewster]

Sucks, I was hoping to get my Black Badge Oct 1,2,3 it supposed to be at the Olds range. I live a mile from the Rocky gun club, the gunfire doesn't bother me a bit, some people.

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by SkytopBrewster

Sucks, I was hoping to get my Black Badge Oct 1,2,3 it supposed to be at the Olds range. I live a mile from the Rocky gun club, the gunfire doesn't bother me a bit, some people.

The range is still open and probably will be for a while, regardless of what the County does. Keep in mind there's also an election going on, as Grizz mentioned a few posts ago, which will effectively put this on hold until the new County council is decided.

I also read in the county paper a few weeks ago that the MVMA has money in reserve to legally challenge an attempt by the County to pull their permits to use the current site.

[260 Rem]

It never ceases to amaze me when people who buy cheap land on a quake line, and then complain when the ground starts to shake. I live at a lake that is about 2kms from a highway and 4 kms from the railway track. I guess I could complain about the noise, but they were there first...so I live with it. Would the proposed noise by-law apply to farmers shooting coyotes in that area?
Grizz - what is your "platform" position on this issue?

[ctd]

Doesn't Law Enforcement use the Olds Range also for regular training?

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by ctd

Doesn't Law Enforcement use the Olds Range also for regular training?

Yeah. I saw a pistol qual on the calandar for the Alberta Sheriffs in the next month or so; unless I'm mistaken, I think the Calgary Police's TAC team has used it recently, too.

[WABBIT]

I have had a membership at MVMA for quite a few years, and without a doubt it has become a gong show over the past three or four years. I can understand the locals who started it and the neighbors being a little put out.

[Grizzly Adams]

Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted. The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.







Grizz

[greylynx]

This sounds just like what happened to the Strathcona range in Edmonton.

That Sux.

You guys will eventually lose out, BUT take those S.O.B. land developers, county, town, and every one else you can find that has to pay for this intrusion to task.

Get enough money to make an even nicer location. range, and of course, a clubhouse large enough for catering events.


A place that you should start planning for.

Make those *****s pay

[WLT]

As one of the evil MVMA members from Calgary, it is too bad that the voices of the membership do not count. As far as I know, this range is for members-only, so I do not know where the info about it not being a member's only range is coming from Grizz...
Here's my feedback (for what it is worth):
It IS a members-only range.
It meets my needs (and many other members).
Members from Calgary buy gas, food, etc in Olds.
Keep it open - listen to the majority.

[BigMofoFrog]

With Grizzlys's attitude, pretty soon there will be nowhere for anyone to shoot... As a member (guess what... not from Calgary), it is the only range within a reasonable distance for those north of Calgary and alot of improvements to the facility have been made. There have also been many adjustments/concessions to keep the so called peace with the neighboring residents.

But why point out the positives, just doesn't serve his agenda does it...

And he's right, the businesses of Olds obviously don't need the gas fillup I make there most weekends($75), the two/sometimes four lunches we purchase ($20+), nor the other pit stops I make while going through town. Imagine the business done during the matches. I guess the vacant shops in town might tell a different story....

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by WLT

As one of the evil MVMA members from Calgary, it is too bad that the voices of the membership do not count. As far as I know, this range is for members-only, so I do not know where the info about it not being a member's only range is coming from Grizz...
Here's my feedback (for what it is worth):
It IS a members-only range.
It meets my needs (and many other members).
Members from Calgary buy gas, food, etc in Olds.
Keep it open - listen to the majority.

Members only? Sign on the gate says, anyone renting the range has to provide their own liability insurance. So, outside the claimed 1500 "members", it's also used by other groups, who rent it. Range is in Mountainview County and they have to deal with the flak, not Olds. Gas and food don't amount to a hill of beans. Meets your needs, but you don't live here, or pay taxes. Keep it open? Majority who can decide, reside here, not in Calgary, something that seems to be lost on the gun club and it's campaign to keep it open.

Grizz

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by BigMofoFrog

With Grizzlys's attitude, pretty soon there will be nowhere for anyone to shoot... As a member (guess what... not from Calgary), it is the only range within a reasonable distance for those north of Calgary and alot of improvements to the facility have been made. There have also been many adjustments/concessions to keep the so called peace with the neighboring residents.

But why point out the positives, just doesn't serve his agenda does it...

And he's right, the businesses of Olds obviously don't need the gas fillup I make there most weekends($75), the two/sometimes four lunches we purchase ($20+), nor the other pit stops I make while going through town. Imagine the business done during the matches. I guess the vacant shops in town might tell a different story....

I'd feel really bad, if this shooting venue is lost, because it's one of the last ones left, but somebody always has to kill the Golden goose and that's what's happening here. Vacant shops? We just got a new super mall. Olds is a thriving economic centre and wouldn't even have a minor hiccup.

Improvements? the place is a field of 3' high thistles and other weeds. Like I said, the weed inspector could come down hard on the site. Hard to believe the much maligned Homestead site, looks like this.

Grizz

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted. The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.







Grizz

Grizz.. I am concerned that your political ambitions are getting in the way of something you and all of us love. Even if just one kid is up shooting at that range, isn't it well worth keeping open?
I get the feeling you are pandering for votes. I have to ask if your opposition has a different view point?
I would hope you would reconsider your position and find the positive in all of this.

Jamie

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Grizz.. I am concerned that your political ambitions are getting in the way of something you and all of us love. Even if just one kid is up shooting at that range, isn't it well worth keeping open?
I get the feeling you are pandering for votes. I have to ask if your opposition has a different view point?
I would hope you would reconsider your position and find the positive in all of this.

Jamie

Has nothing to do with my political ambitions, but I can see myself being dragged into this and I feel badly about it. Been a bit of a bee in my bonnet, for a long time, to see events, sadly, come to this. It's probably beyond compromise, at this stage of the game, but I think a little restraint on the part of the club could have gone a long ways to prevent this going this far. Can't remember who posted here, "we have a new executive and things are going to happen" . They certainly did.

Grizz

[Jamie]

Grizz. I enjoy this discusion.
I think you are missing the big picture here. Or perhaps I am.

What are the shooters doing wrong?
Is there a safety issue?
How could any fellow hunter want any gun range closed down?
Why are people upsett that folks from Calgary shoot out that way?
I dont see people from Calgary getting upsett that people from olds come to Costco..

What is the problem here?

I just dont get it......

Jamie

[Grizzly Adams]

sorry

[Grizzly Adams]

Too many shooters, not enough time in the day and neighbors who have gotten fed up with it. Only one ****ty, dusty gravel in and out of the place, probably doesn't help either. Pretend you're living in the country. Just down the road from you is a small time shooting range, used by the locals, casually for a little target practice and sighting in. Tournament once in a while. A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved. Now all at once, all Hell breaks loose. Guys with guns from sun up to sundown, competitions more often than not, even the cops from the big city come out to practice their skills and the dust never stops flying on the ****ty road.

You might get a little peeved too.

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

Grizz

[BigMofoFrog]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

I'd feel really bad, if this shooting venue is lost, because it's one of the last ones left, but somebody always has to kill the Golden goose and that's what's happening here. Vacant shops? We just got a new super mall. Olds is a thriving economic centre and wouldn't even have a minor hiccup.

Improvements? the place is a field of 3' high thistles and other weeds. Like I said, the weed inspector could come down hard on the site. Hard to believe the much maligned Homestead site, looks like this.

Grizz

Olds (the super mall anyway- close your eyes east of there though) is thriving because people like us are drawn to the attractions, one of those "attractions" is the range. We spend money in the community. What you don't realize is that we appreciate the privelege of having somewhere to go and enjoy our sport. You are clear in that you have an axe to grind/ulterior motive. Your "Shut er down" comment was pretty clear. I see you're running for office on a liberal platform. Good luck to you.

If you felt so bad, why do you go to such effort to destroy this for everyone else? Oh right, everyone else is the problem...

Why stop at the Range- the evil "out of towners" are using your golf course and can't get a good tee time anymore like the good ole days, better shut that down too...

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

So, outside the claimed 1500 "members", it's also used by other groups, who rent it.

That is true. According to the MVMA calendar, those groups include; the Didsbury Cadets, Alberta Sheriffs, and a couple of handgun shooting leagues. To name a few.

Meets your needs, but you don't live here, or pay taxes.

That is ultimately what it'll boil down to. As the NIMBY folks living in the area will be the ones casting votes for the councillors that will decide the range's fate, then it's reasonable to figure that their wishes will be reflected. Democracy in action, and all that.

The article I quoted above mentioned that the MVMA's preferred solution to these issues was to (eventually) relocate the range onto a new site on Crown land. That's probably all that is left for us to do, given the prevailing attitude in the area.

Admittedly, a push for closure might actually put a sense of urgency on the MVMA board for getting a new site put together. And, hopefully, they won't be chased completely out of the County.... but, sadly, I won't hold my breath. I may well have to go to Trochu or Red Deer -- I won't like the extra drive, but what can you do?

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

I wouldn't blame the executive for the MVMA not wanting to restrict its membership and limit the league competitions and stuff. The MVMA is declared a non-profit, and membership-driven -- so there'd likely have to be a general meeting of the membership to change their bylaws.

Given that there's a sizeable slice of the MVMA membership who would be adversely affected by such restrictions - if not an outright majority - then the vote would be a foregone conclusion.

Again, democracy in action.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Too many shooters, not enough time in the day and neighbors who have gotten fed up with it. Only one ****ty, dusty gravel in and out of the place, probably doesn't help either. Pretend you're living in the country. Just down the road from you is a small time shooting range, used by the locals, casually for a little target practice and sighting in. Tournament once in a while. A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved. Now all at once, all Hell breaks loose. Guys with guns from sun up to sundown, competitions more often than not, even the cops from the big city come out to practice their skills and the dust never stops flying on the ****ty road.

You might get a little peeved too.

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

Grizz

Ok, so its about a gravel road and some noise?
And there are 32 people complaining? Some of wich I am sure are just plain old anti gun.

Sorry Grizz, it still doesn't make much sense to me.
I see the points of extra cash pouring in, but perhaps the point you don't see is that it costs you guys nothing to have the guys come in. It sounds like a busy range, why not embrace it, charge more taxes and make some cash. Get the community involved and pave that road.

Who cares if the majority do not add to the tax base, they add to the general revenue of the whole town. Especially if it is as busy as what you state.

Do what is best for the whole area not just take care of the few complainers.

I don't like this part " A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved."

Please don't tell me these locals are afraid of the big bad boys from the city. DO NOT GO DOWN THE PROTECTIONALIST ROAD" You cant, it will be a death sentence for your fine community. Times change and people must as well.
Seems to me you have a great thing going on there. Don't allow a few misguided locals to screw it up.

Good luck
Jamie

[gitrdun]

Let me begin by saying that I don't shoot at the Olds range nor have I ever been there. It never is pleasurable to hear of the imminent shutting down of a range. Having said that, I wonder if one of the executive members has ever volunteered to spend a day at a resident's home and experience first hand the source of their aggravation. One thing that I have learned about shooting ranges lately is that only a very small number of members will actually spend the time to clean up and take care of upkeep. The majority will only show up for the shoots, but very few put in the time for basic maintenance. This is what unfortunately happens when membership grows but maintenance and upkeep does not grow porportionally. Hopefully, you guys can work something out.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Let me begin by saying that I don't shoot at the Olds range nor have I ever been there. It never is pleasurable to hear of the imminent shutting down of a range. Having said that, I wonder if one of the executive members has ever volunteered to spend a day at a resident's home and experience first hand the source of their aggravation. One thing that I have learned about shooting ranges lately is that only a very small number of members will actually spend the time to clean up and take care of upkeep. The majority will only show up for the shoots, but very few put in the time for basic maintenance. This is what unfortunately happens when membership grows but maintenance and upkeep does not grow porportionally. Hopefully, you guys can work something out.

This will be my final post on the subject. I don't want to see the range shut down, but it seems inevitable. The biggest problem is that the gun club members, like some of those posting here, are not willing to accept, that they have drastically affected the Lifestyle of the people in the neighborhood . You can't turn a sleepy little range with about 200 members into one with 1500 plus and ignore the effects on the community. Where they want to stop? 10,000 members? Granted, it's a poor location, but way back, when it was built, no one had this kind of usage in mind.

Grizz

[Frans]

When all is said and done and considered, it would be very sad to be losing another shooting area.

[260 Rem]

Like it or not, "politics" are involved in every NIMBY situation...and like it or not...we have to deal with them. It's too bad the interest groups could not sit down and work out some compromises. Every Range that closes, puts that prospect one step closer to each our "own" Ranges.
If I were a member of a debt free Range with 1500 members, I would be advocating a supplimental levy for at least two years. An additional $50.00 per member would draw an extra $75,000.00 which should be enough get the area properly burmed..and the same levy a second year could be committed to building sheds with some sound supression. I would encourage local residents to lobby County Council to commit to some asphalt.
Once the area is properly burmed, sound suppression is in place, and there is an asphalt road... there should be few complaints. Oh, and perhaps the Country would agree to restrict subdivision in that area...and require realtors to show existing properties during range operational hours.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Like it or not, "politics" are involved in every NIMBY situation...and like it or not...we have to deal with them. It's too bad the interest groups could not sit down and work out some compromises. Every Range that closes, puts that prospect one step closer to each our "own" Ranges.
If I were a member of a debt free Range with 1500 members, I would be advocating a supplimental levy for at least two years. An additional $50.00 per member would draw an extra $75,000.00 which should be enough get the area properly burmed..and the same levy a second year could be committed to building sheds with some sound supression. I would encourage local residents to lobby County Council to commit to some asphalt.
Once the area is properly burmed, sound suppression is in place, and there is an asphalt road... there should be few complaints. Oh, and perhaps the Country would agree to restrict subdivision in that area...and require realtors to show existing properties during range operational hours.

I'm not sure what kind of berms would satisfy the NIMBY folks. The range did intensive sound teting last year, shooting the most powerful and noisy rifles available and the sound level at various neighbours properties were at the spoken word level (not shouting). The level was significantly lower than passing gravel trucks and much lower than the neighbours tractors. I think if they walled and roofed the 10 acre range there would still be complaints. The anti gun people are much like anti smokers. Anti smokers are offended if they see people smoking: They don't have to smell it. Anti gun people just have to know there is a pop pop pop going on to get there knickers in a knot.

PS: What is the Grizz's real name. I want to make sure i don't accidentally vote for him. That much misinformation on council would be a bad thing. Next they will want to tell farmers how many cats they can have....oh wait...they already did that.

[Jim]

I guess gun owners are their own worst enemies with guys like Grizzly trying to represent the county. As a county resident and a member of MVMA I am dissapointed that a guy running for council would take this stand, instead of making suggestions to the executives of the club, he advocates shutting it down because the weeds are to high. Maybe I should phone the "weed inspector" because my 75 year old nieghbor has let the weeds on her quarter section get a little out of control.


I live down the road from SilverWillow sporting clays so I know what its like to live next to a gun club. I never expected SilverWillow to become so popular so maybe I should start campaigning to get them shutdown, after all they did just host that big competetion a couple weeks ago, I believe it was the Canadian Championships. There was just to much noise that weekend. But I think I will take the high road and not stab fellow gun owners in the back.