Alberta Draws and wait times

Sledhead71 · #1 01-21-2022, 04:18 PM

There seems to be a rather large disconnect between many on the Outfitting industry in Alberta and the presumed effects on the resident hunter. Myself, I understand the importance of sharing our resource, hunter host, partner license, outfitting. All of these "extras" will marginally increase the wait times, but the benefits far outweigh the trouble.

As is being discussed in the Mule deer allocation thread, those opposed to outfitting are sure not bringing forward our hunter host system. The hunter host system is great IMO, but it certainly will reduce available tags.. Why are the ones advocating for change bringing forward this system and the loss of opportunity ?

Then there is the dreaded land owner tags debate, this system has proven to be positive contribution to our hunting heritage here in Alberta. The reasoning here is we are still gaining access to private lands, so something went right not wrong when these rules came to be. Now, I think it is a positive that Joe land owner hunts, they understand the benefit of habitat to all species and hopefully encourage stewardship of their respective lands.

Now, some say Saskatchewan has it right... I personally feel there system blows... I own tracks of land there, all of it is recreational / habitat and I allow many to hunt and enjoy the fruits of my labor. I do not have family there, so even though I contribute to the tax base, I have only been drawn once for Whitetail since the new system came into effect. My friends there do not like the "pool" system which can be a lottery where your buddy gets drawn many times before you do... I have hosted my friends from Sask here, funny I can't be hosted there....

Life isn't fair all the time, but Alberta has it right for the most part and I for one value Outfitting and respect those in this industry. I have travelled the world, used outfitters and feel blessed other country's allow outfitting for hunting.

Smoky buck · #2 01-21-2022, 04:48 PM

Host program should not have none residents applying for draws in the same pool as residents. It should be done like BC none residents using the host program should only be valid for none draw hunts

No issues with outfitters just keep allocation to max 10% no exceptions. Major infractions or repeat offenders should loose their license.

Landowners tags I don’t have a real stance on. What I do know it has not motivated anyone I know to allow access to hunters they don’t personally know. These people do protect habitat for game animals on their land but I don’t know if the landowner tags are a factor in this choice

Honestly I see a need for improvement in Alberta’s system. When it comes to draw wait times I personally don’t see away to truly solve it well keeping the priority system. Steps can be made to remove cheaters but I don’t see it making a large impact

That is my honest 2 cents

Rackmastr · #3 01-21-2022, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Honestly I see a need for improvement in Alberta’s system. When it comes to draw wait times I personally don’t see away to truly solve it well keeping the priority system. Steps can be made to remove cheaters but I don’t see it making a large impact

Pretty much every system thats gone to a preference point system has discovered years down the road that there are some serious issues. A bonus point system often works better, or even a hybrid system. The ROOT problem exists with point creep and its not hard to see that in all of the US states that are dealing with that right now. Alberta seems inflexible to look outward at what other jurisdictions are doing and the possible solutions. Truth be told its too far down the list of importance for most, so often times it turns into conversations about levers to pull to fix, without looking at the main problem that also needs fixing or to be reviewed.

Dubious · #4 01-21-2022, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Pretty much every system thats gone to a preference point system has discovered years down the road that there are some serious issues. A bonus point system often works better, or even a hybrid system. The ROOT problem exists with point creep and its not hard to see that in all of the US states that are dealing with that right now. Alberta seems inflexible to look outward at what other jurisdictions are doing and the possible solutions. Truth be told its too far down the list of importance for most, so often times it turns into conversations about levers to pull to fix, without looking at the main problem that also needs fixing or to be reviewed.

If you can dream up a system where you can keep the guys that have been applying for 20+ years happy while someone who get drawn on their first application jumps the que I’m sure AEP would be all ears. The system we have now is broken some sheep draws have a 400 year que it’s a system where who ever started applying first and is still alive will get the tag at this rate. More tags will be like this soon like antelope for example.

Smoky buck · #5 01-21-2022, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious

If you can dream up a system where you can keep the guys that have been applying for 20+ years happy while someone who get drawn on their first application jumps the que I’m sure AEP would be all ears. The system we have now is broken some sheep draws have a 400 year que it’s a system where who ever started applying first and is still alive will get the tag at this rate. More tags will be like this soon like antelope for example.

All options to change the system will anger those who built up priority

So your choices are continue with a broken system or anger dome in the name of change. No matter which way you turn someone is getting screwed

Rackmastr · #6 01-21-2022, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious

If you can dream up a system where you can keep the guys that have been applying for 20+ years happy while someone who get drawn on their first application jumps the que I’m sure AEP would be all ears. The system we have now is broken some sheep draws have a 400 year que it’s a system where who ever started applying first and is still alive will get the tag at this rate. More tags will be like this soon like antelope for example.

Bonus points work, and allow for a 'reward' of applying. Also a hybrid system of 75/25 preference/random or a 2-pass system that Arizona uses with bonus points and random. A few states seem to have it figured out, but agreed that its laughable when you look at some draws that Alberta has and the current wait times with preference-only based system.

Likely given the fact that its been priority based for so long, altering to a split of priority/random would be the best way to try and walk the line to keep as many 'happy' while also trying to fix the broken system.

marky_mark · #7 01-21-2022, 06:11 PM

People will complain if they have to spend more than $5

Dubious · #8 01-21-2022, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Bonus points work, and allow for a 'reward' of applying. Also a hybrid system of 75/25 preference/random or a 2-pass system that Arizona uses with bonus points and random. A few states seem to have it figured out, but agreed that its laughable when you look at some draws that Alberta has and the current wait times with preference-only based system.

Likely given the fact that its been priority based for so long, altering to a split of priority/random would be the best way to try and walk the line to keep as many 'happy' while also trying to fix the broken system.

You Will never have the support of anyone with a current priority points in the system for that. Hence the problem. If you think aep is clueless or hasn’t looked at this your dead wrong. With your new split system how can you call it fair for guys with points that now have to be told they are in a b pool and all the pri they have been building for a decade(s) is moot would you just tell them the goal post has moved and they need to suck it up? Or tell people that their priority points arnt worth as much because people that have more disposable income should be allowed to jump the line? will you be able to compete with someone with deep pockets every year or will that just drive the cost and que up while the rich hunt every year?

Salavee · #9 01-25-2022, 06:58 AM

For those who feel the Outfitting Industry is contributing to the Alberta or Canadian economy in a big way should give this read. My Gawd , its a Tax Haven if I ever saw one. What a way to "provide for your family"!
No wonder APOS is so secretive and touchy.

Google : Foreign Convention and Tour Incentive - Hunting

marky_mark · #10 01-25-2022, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salavee

For those who feel the Outfitting Industry is contributing to the Alberta or Canadian economy in a big way should give this read. My Gawd , its a Tax Haven if I ever saw one. What a way to "provide for your family"!
No wonder APOS is so secretive and touchy.

Google : Foreign Convention and Tour Incentive - Hunting

You know this is just a rebate for 50% of the gst right?
So like 2.5%