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04-05-2024, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 871
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How bad does it have to get before Albertans decide separation is the best option?
The feds have been using AB as a cash machine for years and in my opinion, they really don't care too much about us. How many laws and taxes that are against AB's best interests will it take for Albertans to decide separation is the way to go?
Or will this go on like this forever?
It seems to me that the Federal government will never reflect the values of most Albertans, so what's the point of staying in confederation?
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04-05-2024, 09:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.
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04-05-2024, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: alberta
Posts: 2,041
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
so many thoughts
so little time
wanted to separate since turd-0000o00 one
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04-05-2024, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 9,893
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It's already way past being bad as far as I see it
Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.
The demographic has changed. And it is by design.
Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....
__________________
When you are born, you get a ticket to the Freak Show.
If you are born in Canada, you get a front row seat.
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04-05-2024, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 9,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff
It's already way past being bad as far as I see it
Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.
The demographic has changed. And it is by design.
Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....
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How sad that you are 100 % correct. We watched the Libs and the lefties change Canada right under our noses.
Watching all these anti Israel protests and not one banner says down with Hamas. Our own gov split on who to support, flip flopping along the issue, picking both sides when it is convenient to them. We are a small version of the United Kingdom now where immigration issues are showing their ugly side.
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04-05-2024, 10:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,285
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The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
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04-05-2024, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,389
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I like Sundance, he does not dream about some utopia that does not exist.
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04-05-2024, 10:49 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 4,275
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We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Strange to me we've never pushed for this before. That Not Withstanding clause in the constitution is not just there for Quebec to thumb their noses at us.
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Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there is no place, that they be alone in the midst of the Earth.
Isaiah 5:8
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04-05-2024, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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Meh, very easy solution to all of these above- we just declare a war on US and then surrender right away, lol! Problem solved!
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04-05-2024, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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All those arguments against are bargaining chips in our favour.
Canada doesn't want to give up the national parks?
Sure, keep them.
Want to have continued access to them? Well now you have to give us access to the ports on the coast.
Same with the reserves.
We sure don't want that burden, but if they want to join us as equals they are welcome. Anyone who doesn't is free to live on a Canadian reserve that's an island in the middle of our new country. And we can bargin for access to them.
And if you think switching away from bilingualism will do anything but save us money, you're dreaming.
__________________
I don't think our taxes should be this high.
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04-05-2024, 11:21 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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Premier Smith has been doing a good job on trying to get more autonomy like Quebec
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04-05-2024, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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I would expect that back when the US declared independence from Britian, many Americans brought up similar points that you're bringing up. Look how that turned out.
My point is circumstances change, just because things seem a certain way, doesn't mean they will stay that way forever.
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04-05-2024, 03:30 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 7,003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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Don’t forget the huge decline in population making Alberta even less significant. I suspect at least 40% of the population would migrate out leaving a housing surplus and a serious downturn to our economy.
This happened when Quebec actually was serious about separating, industry and jobs left in droves . That is why they softened their stance to what it is now. Just making demands backed up by veiled threats they have no intention of caring out , but it gets them what they want .
__________________
Preacher: “Well, there's a lot of sinners here abouts. You wouldn't want me to leave before I finish my work, would you?”.
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04-06-2024, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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This makes sense
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04-08-2024, 09:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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I disagree I think the USA would scoop us up in a heart beat! Pipe lines from Alberta, Alaska to the gulf states. Several ocean ports if Manitoba and northern BC join in and MOST importantly FRESH water for sates like California etc.
__________________
Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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04-09-2024, 07:03 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.
That all said…
Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.
We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.
We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.
Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.
Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.
We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.
The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.
We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.
Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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Bingo!
Plus we would have to start up some type of trade agreements with the rest of Canada and the U.S. with little leverage. They would bend us over a barrel.
And how do you get out oil to tidewater? B.C. would make life difficult there etc.
And a lot of people who identify as Canadian first would flee and drive down house prices etc.
Trust me, separation is the best way to turn Alberta into a have not state.
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04-05-2024, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 720
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[QUOTE=dmcbride;4714527]If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.[/QUOTE
If we get another sparkle socks government, you may not have to... The population of Alberta may well move to another country without going anywhere.
Be careful what you wish for though... That would be followed by a massive wave of immigration from the rest of Canada - just remember more than half of the voters didn't vote to support the Clown Prince
__________________
Why hunt when I could buy meat?
Why have sex when I could opt for artificial insemination?
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04-05-2024, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 9,812
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I have been voting since I was 18 and am 57 now. Only seen a few Conservative governments rule the land in that time. What I have seen election after election is how more than not, the east makes up my mind long before I cast a vote.
If PP & crew can't knock that turd and his crooks out and soundly, after everything they have done this time around, any future federal votes will be protest votes to either a AB bloc party or separation party. If my vote don't matter anyway, why bother supporting the big blue one.
I have had more than enough of the east/libs sticking it to the west.
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04-08-2024, 08:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Drayton Valley
Posts: 1,272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner
I have been voting since I was 18 and am 57 now. Only seen a few Conservative governments rule the land in that time. What I have seen election after election is how more than not, the east makes up my mind long before I cast a vote.
If PP & crew can't knock that turd and his crooks out and soundly, after everything they have done this time around, any future federal votes will be protest votes to either a AB bloc party or separation party. If my vote don't matter anyway, why bother supporting the big blue one.
I have had more than enough of the east/libs sticking it to the west.
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Few years older but the same story. Last chance for my vote as a conservative. Have never voted for any other than a conservative party
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04-05-2024, 11:48 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 357
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In my mind the only way it work is if Northern BC, Saskatchewan, and Alberta went together - not going to happen unfortunately.
The best option is Northern Separation - just start a new country at the 50th parallel. Keep all the resources and eliminate the leeches. Have a look at the map and you will see what I mean.
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