Do we have enough jails?

[densa44]

With the growing population we have found that we need more; hospitals, schools, houses and jails?

In the old days (100 years ago) communities wanted jails, and they went to the ridings held by important Federal MPs. They provided good government jobs and went on forever. Kingston has 3 of them, it was Sir John A's riding.

I hear lots of complaining about crime, bail conditions, and short sentences but no one seems to want to start building more jails.

So here are my questions; do they do any good, do longer sentences make sense, how dangerous are the criminals?

During WW1 Canada had a number of POW camps in North Ontario and I think Banff, the cold weather and mosquitos eliminated escapes and the boys did work in the bush. I hear that some came back after the war, got married and raised families.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by densa44

With the growing population we have found that we need more; hospitals, schools, houses and jails?

In the old days (100 years ago) communities wanted jails, and they went to the ridings held by important Federal MPs. They provided good government jobs and went on forever. Kingston has 3 of them, it was Sir John A's riding.

I hear lots of complaining about crime, bail conditions, and short sentences but no one seems to want to start building more jails.

So here are my questions; do they do any good, do longer sentences make sense, how dangerous are the criminals?

During WW1 Canada had a number of POW camps in North Ontario and I think Banff, the cold weather and mosquitos eliminated escapes and the boys did work in the bush. I hear that some came back after the war, got married and raised families.

Call an expert in the field and ask

[Dewey Cox]

There's a solution to helping the "housing shortage"
Build more jails, and fill them up.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

There's a solution to helping the "housing shortage"
Build more jails, and fill them up.

Affordable, multi-family, high density, everything the Liberals desire!

[Drewski Canuck]

So just what do you think a Jail is really meant for?

S. 718.1 Criminal Code: A sentence must be proportionate to the gravity of the offence and the degree of responsibility of the offender.

NOW THE REAL USES OF JAIL. Some Addicts simply need a period of Jail to dry them out. It can take months to break the craving for Meth, Crack Cocaine, etc. Only then can you talk to the person and receive a clear headed, honest answer. Doing Duty Counsel back in the early 1990's when Crack was everywhere, a pasty white and sweating Accused would come out of Custody, shaking like a jack hammer. Many many of the old Judges would put their matter over for a month before speaking to Bail to force a dry out.

There are Chateau Remand people who like three meals, clean sheets, and a warm bed. They regularly turn themselves in on warrants that pile up through the summer in late October, and do not want anything done until April - May. It is better than freezing to death as a homeless person in a tent in the river valley.

There are the people who are truly violent personalities. Consequences mean nothing, and it is only a matter of time before an innocent person gets robbed, beaten, raped, or killed. Consequences mean nothing, and Jail is needed to protect the rest of us.

I have dealt with cases where people served their sentence or made Bail, travelled a couple blocks on foot from Jail, and started breaking into cars and houses. They just don't care. Property Crime is their lifestyle and usually to fuel a drug habit. Jail is the only way to keep the rest of us safe.


Then there are the mentally ill who are not deemed "not criminally responsible" (insane). They go through life in and out of Jail because they are not a threat to themselves or others warranting a mental health committal.

Edmonton Remand and all other Remands are often at over capacity and empty beds at the Fort Sask Jail, Young Offender Center, etc are used to house inmates and people in custody.

Then there are the organized crime people trading drugs to the people stealing cars and trucks which are then put in shipping containers and sold off shore. Jail is a cost of doing business, and the only hope of taking a member off the streets. Another gang member will simply take their place, while Mr. Big is in Jail, but at least it hurts the gang financially when property is seized. Usually the gang member has so many contacts in Jail that it makes no difference to their business and it is understood to be a cost of doing business.

Sure we need more Jails.

Just understand that housing an Inmate costs $100,000 for a year. Perhaps we need "different Jails" where we can be safe from the Criminals, and the Inmates can work on projects to pay some of their own way, learn job skills, and get the treatment they need to address their mental health / addictions problems.

But to think Jail is a deterrence to someone who has been awake for 3 days dealing meth and doing property crime, you're dreaming.

Drewski

[CanuckShooter]

Jails aren't what they used to be, over time the prisoners rights afford them treatment akin to being a valued tourist. I'm pretty sure a good old fashion paddling or whipping would cut back on them continuing with a life of crime.

Build jails in places where they would be less expensive to run, so not in Toronto/Montreal or Vancouver. Best would be in India or China, the operating expenses would be far lower. Just outsource the jails like everything else.

Experts will tell you it costs more to apply the death penalty than it does to house/feed a prisoner for life. With experts like that they will be selling us beach front property in Saskatoon in no time. Just look how they applied the death penalty to that Romanian dictator, found guilty, walked outside and shot dead. Now tell me again how it's cheaper to keep them in jail for life?
Makes me doubt anything a so called expert says.

[TrollGRG]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Experts will tell you it costs more to apply the death penalty than it does to house/feed a prisoner for life. With experts like that they will be selling us beach front property in Saskatoon in no time. Just look how they applied the death penalty to that Romanian dictator, found guilty, walked outside and shot dead. Now tell me again how it's cheaper to keep them in jail for life?
Makes me doubt anything a so called expert says.

In a word, no we don't have enough jails if you want to incarcerate all the politicians and other "officials" who break any and all laws at their convenience.

One thing to be said about capital punishment is - no repeat offenders.

[Bushrat]

They better start doing something soon before people start taking the law into their own hands and lowlifes start to go missing. Most of this crap only goes on because officials, government and all the doo gooder societies allow, enable and encourage this behavior..

[elkhunter11]

Maybe we just need to change the jails from Club Fed to an actual deterent ?Get back to basics with less comforts, and put the prisoners to work, to pay for their keep.

[tirebob]

Jails? nahhhh.... Gallows? yes.

[warriorboy10]

Originally Posted by TrollGRG

In a word, no we don't have enough jails if you want to incarcerate all the politicians and other "officials" who break any and all laws at their convenience.

One thing to be said about capital punishment is - no repeat offenders.

Exactly! Would sure elimate alot of crime simply out of fear, but god forbid anyone fear commiting a crime due to the penalty. Not in this woke world!!

[Hilgy]

Originally Posted by densa44

With the growing population we have found that we need more; hospitals, schools, houses and jails?

In the old days (100 years ago) communities wanted jails, and they went to the ridings held by important Federal MPs. They provided good government jobs and went on forever. Kingston has 3 of them, it was Sir John A's riding.

I hear lots of complaining about crime, bail conditions, and short sentences but no one seems to want to start building more jails.

So here are my questions; do they do any good, do longer sentences make sense, how dangerous are the criminals?

During WW1 Canada had a number of POW camps in North Ontario and I think Banff, the cold weather and mosquitos eliminated escapes and the boys did work in the bush. I hear that some came back after the war, got married and raised families.

We don’t need more jails. We need to get back to putting a gallows in every town square……

[Grizzly Adams1]

More jails for everyone , period

[KGB]

Jails? Here? At the cost of $47,000 per prisoner per year? Hell no! Ship them to mother Russia, gulag is still there! They can shovel the snow in Siberia!

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by KGB

Jails? Here? At the cost of $47,000 per prisoner per year? Hell no! Ship them to mother Russia, gulag is still there! They can shovel the snow in Siberia!

Not sure where you got that number from, but

In 2019-20, the annual average cost of keeping a male incarcerated was $121,352 per year, whereas the annual average cost for incarcerating a female was $222,942.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/r.../index-en.aspx

ARG

[Cement Bench]

females always cost us more

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by KGB

Jails? Here? At the cost of $47,000 per prisoner per year? Hell no! Ship them to mother Russia, gulag is still there! They can shovel the snow in Siberia!

I imagine that there are lots of countries would take them, free labor, why not. Even if we have to pay a few bucks a day, still win win, just costs us an airline ticket.

[58thecat]

Rope

Cheap and makes financial room
For what matters like healthcare etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[densa44]

Going back in the English legal system. It started that death was the sentence for all crime, no thought of rehabilitation. After a while, they tried "transportation" that's how Australia got its first population and then we got jails which were supposed to rehabilitate criminals.

I hear from our experts that they don't work, BTW our expertise for the forensic mentally ill is not very good either.

So going forward, what should be the plan? We have heard capital punishment for all crimes the people supporting the idea aren't accused of. Work camps have also got some supporters.

Sending them back where they came from, this was a popular idea after the first Irish immigration around 1900.

The Muslims cut the hands off of thieves, usually children I'm told to discourage the behaviour.

It seems to me that after thousands of years of "Thou shall not steal", "Thou shall not kill" we haven't got very far.

Attempt's to make crime less profitable, has there been any success there?

I hate to think that capital punishment is the best that we can do to fight crime. It didn't work either, and killed some innocent people.

I appreciate the answers from those who work in the field.

[waldedw]

Those bums and druggies live a dozen in a shack now, bunk beds, 4 per cell, stack them up like cord wood, if the kill each other oh well less expense to the tax payer.

[badbrass]

Exactly!

Originally Posted by waldedw

Those bums and druggies live a dozen in a shack now, bunk beds, 4 per cell, stack them up like cord wood, if the kill each other oh well less expense to the tax payer.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Those bums and druggies live a dozen in a shack now, bunk beds, 4 per cell, stack them up like cord wood, if the kill each other oh well less expense to the tax payer.

Exactly! Make prison a deterrent. And bring back capital punishment, it's a proven fact that executed criminals don't reoffend.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Those bums and druggies live a dozen in a shack now, bunk beds, 4 per cell, stack them up like cord wood, if the kill each other oh well less expense to the tax payer.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly! Make prison a deterrent. And bring back capital punishment, it's a proven fact that executed criminals don't reoffend.

More prison space is needed as are mental institutions, because some people cannot ever be rehabilitated or integrated into society. They should be locked up and looked after in a proper facility instead of left on the streets to die or for the general public to look after.

Unfortunately it's not just bums and druggies. Plenty of other hardcore prolific offenders that rape, assault, kill, steal, molest............... that are in and back out in short order, often not even remanded in custody. Many of the addicts/criminals are in and out so quickly that the system doesn't even have a chance to try out any sort of rehabilitation.

The revolving door needs to stop, lawmakers/judges/defense lawyers need to steer far away from the current path that is constantly saying "they weren't responsible for their actions". B.S. they were responsible, they did it and nobody else did hence there should be real consequences.

No more Gladue principles for prolific dangerous offenders either, that excuse is getting old too and it has encouraged the system to become complacent and lazy. It has done absolutely nothing to curtail the number of crimes committed by indigenous people. If nothing else it's caused a significant increase in the number of prolific indigenous criminals, they have no reason to respect or fear the law anymore.

Drug traffickers here should receive the same treatment that they do in Singapore. Right on the entry Visa is stamped "Warning, Death for Drug Traffickers Under Singapore Law", I was okay with that. That should go for the lying pharmaceutical companies executives, over-prescribing physicians or criminal pharmacists too.

[W921]

Originally Posted by densa44

Going back in the English legal system. It started that death was the sentence for all crime, no thought of rehabilitation. After a while, they tried "transportation" that's how Australia got its first population and then we got jails which were supposed to rehabilitate criminals.

I hear from our experts that they don't work, BTW our expertise for the forensic mentally ill is not very good either.

So going forward, what should be the plan? We have heard capital punishment for all crimes the people supporting the idea aren't accused of. Work camps have also got some supporters.

Sending them back where they came from, this was a popular idea after the first Irish immigration around 1900.

The Muslims cut the hands off of thieves, usually children I'm told to discourage the behaviour.

It seems to me that after thousands of years of "Thou shall not steal", "Thou shall not kill" we haven't got very far.

Attempt's to make crime less profitable, has there been any success there?

I hate to think that capital punishment is the best that we can do to fight crime. It didn't work either, and killed some innocent people.

I appreciate the answers from those who work in the field.

I believe we overcome evil with good. But we can't live with heroin, fentanyl,meth addict's.
Do we allow them to spread the drugs to more and more people? At some point if we keep giving them money and allow them to steel are we not just enabling them?
If we export them or keep them away then they are not destroying our lives and spreading the misery.
Free needles and legalized drugs just have made it worse.
It used to be years ago that police would kind of create ghettos. Example you stay on this side of railroad tracks and we will not arrest you. This seems better than therm living amongst us but now the woke cops are more likely to arrest or ticket you than a bad guy.
What is your solution?

[Fradaburidi]

Originally Posted by W921

but now the woke cops are more likely to arrest or ticket you than a bad guy.
What is your solution?

Why would they ticket someone that's not going to pay anyways?