Interesting thoughts

[obsessed1]

Why is it that as men generally we consider some rounds as good for kids or our wives and have no issue with them hunting with them but we are not confident in the round for ourselves? with regards to our kids we say they can grow into a larger round... if the round isn't capable for hunting for a "man" why is it capable for a lady, or a kid up until he is able "to grow into something bigger"?
Just something to ponder...

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[Dick284]

Machoism
Ego’s
Lack of knowledge.

I lump the .243 Win. and the .410 bore shotgun in the same category. An experts firearm!
Both work on way more game than most can fathom, but you’d better have a fair amount of experience with shooting them to get those results.

[32-40win]

Likely a perpetualized attitude from the days of using spears and bow & arrow. Hunting mags & shows have promoted magnumitis for decades as well. Think we are well aware you don't need a 500NE to kill elephants, and moose and bear are not armor plated, but, there is a higher risk level involved in using a small cartridge, and these days, we have some societal thingy called ethics about hunting, which it is very much in our nature, to want to test, when we see something we want.

[sns2]

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[Smoky buck]

I have been a believer in a smaller hole in the right spot is much better then a bigger hole in the wrong spot for along time

The only caliber I am completely opposed to owning for my self is the 6.5 creedmore and that is because my hair is too short for a man bun and a purse just looks awkward to haul out a deer with. I don’t think I need a bigger caliber though lol

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have been a believer in a smaller hole in the right spot is much better then a bigger hole in the wrong spot for along time

l

How about a bigger hole in the right spot?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How about a bigger hole in the right spot?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How about a bigger hole in the right spot?

Dead seems to be dead if the hole is in the right spot. A bigger hole doesn’t seem to make them any deader

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Dead seems to be dead if the hole is in the right spot. A bigger hole doesn’t seem to make them any deader

Wonder why there are African countries that require a minimum caliber? And the guys guiding for the big bears up in Alaska strongly suggesting minimum calibers of .375? These guys have seen a lot of big bears go down and far more experienced than most on here I'm guessing.

I get it, not everyone likes or can handle the "magnums". But why, time and again, does it need to be justified by questioning the use of anything but a .308 based cartridge because it does "just as good a job of killing" as a brass holding 30 more grains of powder.

My much younger brother killed his first whitetail with me when he was 14. Did it with a .300wby. Shot that thing lights out. Think he overkilled it. How silly

[acumark]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Dead seems to be dead if the hole is in the right spot. A bigger hole doesn’t seem to make them any deader

Correct BUT for me when it comes to Animals that want to eat you no such thing as Too dead and always opt for more power.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Dead seems to be dead if the hole is in the right spot. A bigger hole doesn’t seem to make them any deader

True to a point, but I think you will find that a bigger hole is much more forgiving for the vast majority of hunters who are either incapable of , or not in a position to place near MOA shots on every game animal they shoot at normal hunting distances.For those that can, the same appies.
A proper assesment would be shooting at least two dozen various sized game animals with any cartridge that produces smaller holes and another two dozen with one that is sub 3000 fps MV and leaves a much larger hole. The more data points, the better. Only then will the results prove greatly in favor of the larger dia. "hole". Dead is dead, but DRT is much better in all repects IMHO.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How about a bigger hole in the right spot?

Nothing beats a big hole going in and a big hole coming out.

[elkhunter11]

With smaller shooters, especially new smaller shooterslight weight and recoil are more important, as the smaller shooter needs to be able to handle the firearm and the recoil. But the cartridge still needs to be adequate for the game it is used for. So for a new smaller shooter, I like one of the smaller capacity 6.5-7mm cartridges, with reduced recoil ammunition. As they get used to the recoil and their skills grow, they can transition to full power loads, which are suitable at the longer ranges they are now comfortable shooting. I am actually helping a friend get started into reloading, and he will be loading reduced loads for a 6.5CM, instead of the 243win that he was going to buy for his daughter originally.
For shotguns, a 20 gauge gas operated semi auto is a much better choice than a single shot 410, as recoil is still mild, and the odds of hitting moving targets is much better, so the new shooter won't get frustrated as easily.

[Dean2]

What to me always get missed in lighter, lower recoil discussions is 250-3000, 257 Roberts, 300 Savage, 6.5x55, 32 Special, 30-30, 25-40 and a host of really effective rounds that have very low recoil while still producing great results on game. 95% of game is shot under 200 yards, by new hunters or experienced ones. A larger diameter bullet moving a little slower is no real handicap out to 250 yards. It isn't like the trajectory changes all that much and being under 8 lbs of recoil has very large benefits.

[Faststeel]

Originally Posted by Dean2

What to me always get missed in lighter, lower recoil discussions is 250-3000, 257 Roberts, 300 Savage, 6.5x55, 32 Special, 30-30, 25-40 and a host of really effective rounds that have very low recoil while still producing great results on game. 95% of game is shot under 200 yards, by new hunters or experienced ones. A larger diameter bullet moving a little slower is no real handicap out to 250 yards. It isn't like the trajectory changes all that much and being under 8 lbs of recoil has very large benefits.

Couldn't agree more Dean , but finding a 250 savage, or a 257 Bob can be rather challenging

[fps plus]

I agree it’s strange how it’s a “good caliber for youth” but not good for me . As I have gotten old , more experience , I have moved to enjoy smaller calibers.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Why is it that as men generally we consider some rounds as good for kids or our wives and have no issue with them hunting with them but we are not confident in the round for ourselves? with regards to our kids we say they can grow into a larger round... if the round isn't capable for hunting for a "man" why is it capable for a lady, or a kid up until he is able "to grow into something bigger"?
Just something to ponder...

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haha......I shoot the cartridges that "men" recommend for women and children. I can't bring myself to wear pink shirts though

I use 25.06 and 7mm08 for everything in AB and I sold my magnums years ago.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Why is it that as men generally we consider some rounds as good for kids or our wives and have no issue with them hunting with them but we are not confident in the round for ourselves? with regards to our kids we say they can grow into a larger round... if the round isn't capable for hunting for a "man" why is it capable for a lady, or a kid up until he is able "to grow into something bigger"?
Just something to ponder...

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Because they have no clue. They have never killed with them. Or they are considering their own marksmanship.

[Jerry D]

I was thinking of this in the youth thread.

You start them on a youth model in a suitable chambering.

They may very well buy a full size rifle in the future in the same chambering.

I know a big guy that has twice been bitten by a 7mm08. It’s more than enough gun for him!

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

I was thinking of this in the youth thread.

You start them on a youth model in a suitable chambering.

They may very well buy a full size rifle in the future in the same chambering.

I know a big guy that has twice been bitten by a 7mm08. It’s more than enough gun for him!

Somebody needs to set him down at the bench and teach him how to properly hold a firearm. Back to basics. Start with a .22

[obsessed1]

If I don't think its adequate for myself why in the world would I let my ,12year old use it???and if it is adequate for myself why do I refer to them as youth or wife calibers? I get smaller shorter rifles for younger smaller shooters.....

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[graham1]

I went with smaller calibers when my boys were young and made sure their shots were as close as possible.
When they got older and more experienced they moved to larger calibers to reach out further if necessary.

Bull elk in the 300 yard range seems a bit much to ask of a .243
I’m sure others will have a different opinion though.

[Dean2]

I love all guns. Have everything from pee shooters to shoulder mounted artillery. 17 to 70 caliber. The variety is what makes it so interesting. I think far too many under estimate what younger shooters can shoot well with a good fitting gun. By the time I was 12 I was shooting a 303 no problem and I was very accurate with it. I was In good shape and had been taught proper shooting form but i was far from a big kid. When I turned 14 I went to a LH Savage in 300WM. It was one of the very first commonly available lh guns and that was the cartridge that was available. It took no time at all to get used to that gun. Between 14 and 18 I wore out 2 of those and was working on my third when Remington brought out the 700 BDL in LH, and that was a much more refined gun than the early Savage 110 Cs, so switched to the 7 rem mag and shot that cartridge for many years, along with a raft of other ones. At 15 I was shooting skeet competitively In all 4 gauges. 100 rounds of 12 gauge was a normal day shoot.

Most young shooters react to the noise more than even the recoil. A set of ear plugs under the muffs helps with that a lot.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Why is it that as men generally we consider some rounds as good for kids or our wives and have no issue with them hunting with them but we are not confident in the round for ourselves? with regards to our kids we say they can grow into a larger round... if the round isn't capable for hunting for a "man" why is it capable for a lady, or a kid up until he is able "to grow into something bigger"?
Just something to ponder...

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Funny after many years later the same fella who was of that mindset has settled on a 7-08.


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[EZM]

I think Dean made an important point - when recoil tolerance is a consideration, the way a gun fits someone is paramount.

I know if I shoulder a 270 in a Tikka T3 she sharply bites me a heck of lot worse compared to shooting my 300 Win Mag .... I know it's hard to believe .... but I can absolutely feel it. I have to believe it's the way each stock fits me. Same is true of youth hunters and women I think.

Saw an interesting article on Weatherby Camilla and the way many women seem to really like this rifle because of fit and seem to tolerate much larger recoil with this set up. I can totally see that. Makes sense to me.

[obsessed1]

Ok so for certain there is need for larger caliber rifles for certain big game. But for the average guy going out and killing his buck every year that doesnt really play into the equation..I'd wager most hunters will never be on a hunt that "NEEDS" a round larger than 30-06,308.. or 243,6.5,270 for that matter. Even when elk or moose are on the docket.

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[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Ok so for certain there is need for larger caliber rifles for certain big game. But for the average guy going out and killing his buck every year that doesnt really play into the equation..I'd wager most hunters will never be on a hunt that "NEEDS" a round larger than 30-06,308.. or 243,6.5,270 for that matter. Even when elk or moose are on the docket.

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100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%

Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

I get your point marky but at the same time 95% of the hunters out there will likely never have a bull of thier dreams walking away at 400yds..but they will blow holes in deer at 130yds with thier 300wm simply because it's a man sized cartridge.
There is a percentage of hunters who like you have hunted some of the biggest baddest places and critters. Going under gunned is silly when you have $$$$ invested in the hunt. But this this is not reality for probably 99% of hunters out there

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[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

Now you are making a valid point I agree with. People need to be realistic with the limitations of their set up. If they will regret passing on an opportunity like you mentioned they need to be prepared with an appropriate set up and be capable of using it

But remember not everyone has the same goals or ability. There is plenty of hunters who could live with that animal of a lifetime walking away do to the limitations of the weapon they choose to use. Some lack the ability too

I can think of multiple opportunities where I personally I could have easily taken an amazing trophy but I chose to hunt with a muzzleloader or bow instead of a rifle. I have refused rifles in the moment even. I don’t regret my choice but I know some would never understand it

No argument from me there can be advantages to different calibers

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

100%
Some people don’t want to let that bull of a lifetime walk into the bush at 400 yards because they brought a 30/30 or a 243

Or you could bring some super mag and flinch like a *&^%^&*$ and wound that trophy of a lifetime then live with that on your conscience for the rest of your life. It is all in your perspective. I have let more then a few fine animals walk and they are some of my best memories.

If you can handle a Ferrari then so be it, but to be honest most people can barely handle their Kia's.