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10-24-2013, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pincher Creek
Posts: 921
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Cartridge Numbers?
I was asked a question today that I did not have a good answer for. What does the 06 mean when referring to 30-06 or the 8 when referring to the 308? Can someone help out?
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10-24-2013, 07:46 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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"30 cal 1906" which was previously 30-03 (30 cal 1903) which is .308 bore diameter
308 Winchester .308 bore diameter
and then we have 32-20 ......32 cal 20 gr of black powder..... or 47-70..45 cal 70 gr of black powder...or 30-30 which was never intended to use black powder
and the 7 x 57 (as an example of Euro metric designations) 7 mm x 57 mm case length
or howza bout 38 spec 38 cal groove to groove..... 357 mag same diameter but measured land to land
confused yet?
Well so are most people so don't feel bad...
Last edited by ACKLEY ABE; 10-24-2013 at 07:50 AM.
Reason: spelling
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10-24-2013, 07:50 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,397
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well
The 06 is the year of adoption by the USA 1906.The 30 is the caliber so they put the two together 30-06.There was an earlier round they tried 30-03 but settled on the former. The .308 is the bore size .It uses the same diameter bullets as the 30-06,30-30,30-40 Krag and 300 win mag.The 30-06 case length is 63mm and the .308 51mm.Harold
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10-24-2013, 08:20 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Cartridge naming is an art, with little rhyme or reason. 7.62x 51, also known as .308 Win, has absolutely no physical similarity to the 7.62x 54. Heck, even the bullet diameters differ. throw in marketing tool exaggeration and it becomes a jungle.
Grizz
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10-24-2013, 08:24 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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How about the .38-40 Winchester?
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10-24-2013, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rural Calgary
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Or .303 Savage that uses a .308 bullet
And .303 Britsh that uses a .312 bullet
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10-24-2013, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Westerose
Posts: 4,208
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And let's not forget the necked up/down cartridges that keep part of the number from the parent case. Like the 7mm-08 Remington, the .25-06 Remington or the .338 Federal. Oh, wait... forget about the .338 Federal
ARG
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In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjemac
It has been scientifically proven that a 308 round will not leave your property -- they essentially fall dead at the fence line. But a 38 round, when fired from a handgun, will of its own accord leave your property and destroy any small schools nearby.
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10-24-2013, 10:15 AM
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Banned
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can ANYONE tell me what the " ULTRA " means on some cartridge cases,,,
and although I use toilet paper that is rated as "ULTRA SOFT",
I just cant seem to make the connection,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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10-24-2013, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Westerose
Posts: 4,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkdump
can ANYONE tell me what the " ULTRA " means on some cartridge cases,,,
and although I use toilet paper that is rated as "ULTRA SOFT",
I just cant seem to make the connection,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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As in the Remington Ultra Magnum line of cartridges? It is marketing speak to distinguish them from the Remington Magnum line of cartridges. I mean, who would want a "Magnum" when you could have an "Ultra Magnum".
ARG
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In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjemac
It has been scientifically proven that a 308 round will not leave your property -- they essentially fall dead at the fence line. But a 38 round, when fired from a handgun, will of its own accord leave your property and destroy any small schools nearby.
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10-24-2013, 10:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,397
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Stolen from .........
Canadian Imperial Magnum
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10-24-2013, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sylvan Lake
Posts: 3,480
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The 7-06 was a flash in the pan and the 7mm Express didn't catch on, but man that 280 Remington is just awesome.
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10-24-2013, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 971
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My favorite cartridge name ever " .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer "
.378 Weatherby necked down to .22 by P.O Ackley
MAC
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Save time... see it my way
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10-24-2013, 10:43 AM
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Location: Olds, Alberta, Canukistan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher
As in the Remington Ultra Magnum line of cartridges? It is marketing speak to distinguish them from the Remington Magnum line of cartridges. I mean, who would want a "Magnum" when you could have an "Ultra Magnum".
ARG
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Ultra Magnum = Powder Burner
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10-24-2013, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC
My favorite cartridge name ever " .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer "
.378 Weatherby necked down to .22 by P.O Ackley
MAC
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German name...all one word...
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10-24-2013, 10:44 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Big Valley Alta
Posts: 2,058
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And Harrington/Richardson, before the older version company went TU had an HR Ultra 300 which was a Model # not a magnum.
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10-24-2013, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
How about the .38-40 Winchester?
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.38 caliber bullet with a case that holds about 40 gr of black powder. Same with the 32-40, 25-20, 32-20, 25-35, 44-40, 30-30, 38-55, etc.
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10-24-2013, 11:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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30-30
Was never factory loaded with BP.And the 45-70 wasn't loaded with 70 gr of BP for long as the carbines damned near kicked the rider off the horse.Guideline but not the Gospel.Harold
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10-24-2013, 11:23 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jethunter
.38 caliber bullet with a case that holds about 40 gr of black powder. Same with the 32-40, 25-20, 32-20, 25-35, 44-40, 30-30, 38-55, etc.
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40 calibre bullet in a .38-40... believe it!
I lost 50 bucks to my dad on that one too
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10-24-2013, 05:06 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pincher Creek
Posts: 921
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Thanks guys, appreciate the insight you have provided. Appears some have a logical origin and others are a mystery.
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10-24-2013, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer2
the 45-70 wasn't loaded with 70 gr of BP for long as the carbines damned near kicked the rider off the horse.Guideline but not the Gospel.Harold
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I have never heard that !
can you give me some research info on it?
As far as I ever knew it was always loaded with 70 grains, with a 405 and them a 500 grain bullet IIRC.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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10-24-2013, 06:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maidstone Sask
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
I have never heard that !
can you give me some research info on it?
As far as I ever knew it was always loaded with 70 grains, with a 405 and them a 500 grain bullet IIRC.
Cat
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I think it was the 500 grain load for the rifle and 405 was for the carbine.
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10-24-2013, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Whitecourt AB
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Or the 22-250 that is a 250-3000 case necked down to .22 cal. The 250-3000 was a shortened 30-06 case necked down to .25 cal and was able to achieve 3000 fps hence the .250-3000 designation.
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10-24-2013, 10:16 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
I have never heard that !
can you give me some research info on it?
As far as I ever knew it was always loaded with 70 grains, with a 405 and them a 500 grain bullet IIRC.
Cat
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I suspect you are correct Cat.
There are lots of guys pushing 45 cal bullets with way more BP than that and the recoil is quite managable.
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10-24-2013, 10:48 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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Trying to make sense of caliber designations is as futile as trying to figure out powder burn rates using "the numbers".
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10-25-2013, 12:20 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brooks
Posts: 2,253
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250 savages
One of my favorite caliber stories for the firearms course is the 250 savage, formerly known as the 250-3000. The first 25 cal bullet to break the 3000 fps barrier.
this of course was the predecessor to the now infamous wildcat, the 22-250, which was a 250 cartridge necked down to 22 caliber.
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10-25-2013, 12:47 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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And then there are things like the 450bpe, 450#1, 450#2, 450Rigby, 400Jeffery and 404Jeffrey, 400H&H, 400/360, 450/400NE and 450/400NE-3-1/4, 297/250Rook,295/300 Rook, 300Sherwood.
Have to do a wee bit of reading to sort some of the English cartridges out, many are not what they seem to be, by the name. And then the Europeans had to rename some of them to metric designations.
If you think of a "new" cartridge, and you think it hasn't been done already, you very likely could be wrong, or just a couple of thou out on one of the case length or shoulder or neck measurements.
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10-25-2013, 05:53 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,860
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275 Rigby!!
Only reason it's called this?
Because the 7MM Mauser was already in existence!!
And of course there is the 7/30 Waters, a cartridge named for the famous Ken Waters - who apparently was a bit embarrassed when he found out it was named in honour of him!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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10-25-2013, 06:26 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maidstone Sask
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Then there is the 307, just a 308 with a rim.
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10-25-2013, 06:29 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver
Then there is the 307, just a 308 with a rim.
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And much thinner brass!
things don't go well for those trying to get the 307 going as fast as the 308!!
The cool thing is is yo can actually use the 308 dies!!
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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10-25-2013, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 8,457
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45-70 Black powder loads
Barnes cartridges of the world book it says;
The recoil from the infantry rifle load, the 45-70-500, was murderous in the lighter, shorter, carbine. They ended up with a .45-55-405 for the carbine. The carbine load would easier to shoot from a horse.
A fellow at a CAS gunshow booth told me the foot soldiers would slip a few rifle loads in to the mounted soldiers carbine loads to see if they could knock them off thier horses.
There was also issued was the .45-70 "Forager" round, which contained a thin wooden bullet filled with birdshot, intended for use hunting small game to supplement the soldiers' rations. This round in effect made the .45-70 rifle into a 49 gauge shotgun.
My trapdoor carbine load is 55grs. 2F with one wad and a 405 cast bullet.
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Last edited by bat119; 10-25-2013 at 07:35 AM.
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