Deer hunting; headshots vs. heart/lung hits

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

For those who think a head shot is a guaranteed kill.

As near as I can figure this bear was shot late last fall. This is how I found him this spring. All healed over but dying a slow slow death.

But again,shot in the lower jaw.Almost anywhere else in the head and his little head is gone.How do we know that the shooter was aiming at the bears head to start with?

[redranger15]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

For those who think a head shot is a guaranteed kill.

As near as I can figure this bear was shot late last fall. This is how I found him this spring. All healed over but dying a slow slow death.

As you and most of us know, nothing in hunting is guaranteed.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by pseelk

But again,shot in the lower jaw.Almost anywhere else in the head and his little head is gone.How do we know that the shooter was aiming at the bears head to start with?

fact is it WAS shot in the jaw, see what happens when you miss by a few inches?

[gitrdun]

That's gruesome Keg, to say the least. That had to be done by a goon? Who knows? The point is that we'll probably NEVER resolve is don't take a head shot unless you are a marksman that in your mind can guarantee a quick and effective kill. I consider myself, not a marksman but very capable. Bottom line is that there is a big difference between what me and my specified bench guns can do and me and my knees, fence post can do. It's up to you to meake the ethical call as to not end up with the pics that Keg posted.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

fact is it WAS shot in the jaw, see what happens when you miss by a few inches?

He could have missed by two feet! He could have shot through one bear and hit this one. There are a ton of possibilities here.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Actually I've got a story about that too! In the camp I used to go to in Ontario one of the old timers, we all called him Uncle _______, was on watch and a buck came along, Uncle didn't see it till it was going away from him and he shot. The deer took off. Uncle thought he'd missed. Now, he had only ever shot one deer in 35 years!!! And this was on his own property! A little while later another guy shot a buck. After the drive the tracker came and checked and there was a blood trail. They tracked the deer right to where the other guy had gotten his buck. When he went to field dress it, he discovered it's 'junk' was completely gone . Uncle's shot had cleaned it all right off!

Lots of jokes that year, and for a few after, about never relieving yourself in the bush when Uncle was around!

Now that is just funny? I love the camp harassment that goes on.

Originally Posted by gitrdun

That statement is so wrong. I've never seen any posts by Cat stating that he was the authority (thus claiming to be right on everything). On the other hand, he offers his knowledge freely and without bias. There's a lot to be learned from the ol' Cat, that is of course if you're willing to listen.

And, yes that youngster has spunk and commendable ethics, I'll give him that. But he has no respect for elders and needs a spanking.

well get at it then

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by chuck

He could have missed by two feet! He could have shot through one bear and hit this one. There are a ton of possibilities here.

true! but back to the head shot debate,..... that sort of thing will be more common occurance with a head shot versus a boiler room shot.......

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

true! but back to the head shot debate,..... that sort of thing will be more common occurance with a head shot versus a boiler room shot.......

x2 ,Am not advocating headshots as a common practice,Just saying if you know your gun and are capeable if the situation arises it is a very effective shot .

Originally Posted by pseelk

But again,shot in the lower jaw.Almost anywhere else in the head and his little head is gone.How do we know that the shooter was aiming at the bears head to start with?

but as cat would say what if that was the only shot he could take then the trophy bear might get away wake up and go for the vitals not directed at you pseelk

[Big Racks]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

fact is it WAS shot in the jaw, see what happens when you miss by a few inches?

Well actually, that's NOT a known fact. Sad pic for sure, and it could have been shot off, but we really don't know. Could have been clobbered by another bear or injured by a different animal, could be infection based from something as simple as an abcessed tooth, heck it could even be a grotesque birth defect of some sort. Bears dont't have doctors or plastic surgeons. As sad a sight as it is, we're really all just guessing at what happened to it.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

well get at it then

I take it you just got off the school bus, that will be mommy's job. As though I do have respect for your ethical behaviour, I have none otherwise.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

but as cat would say what if that was the only shot he could take then the trophy bear might get away wake up and go for the vitals

When you grow up and get some practice and expierience under your belt,then come back and tell me what to shoot for.I"ve shot more animals than you've ever seen.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

true! but back to the head shot debate,..... that sort of thing will be more common occurance with a head shot versus a boiler room shot.......

If you can't shoot or are shooting when you shouldn't.

Originally Posted by pseelk

When you grow up and get some practice and expierience under your belt,then come back and tell me what to shoot for.I"ve shot more animals than you've ever seen.

well oh my you deserve a hero cookie i could grill them in my Chevy too but not very sporting

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

but as cat would say what if that was the only shot he could take then the trophy bear might get away wake up and go for the vitals not directed at you pseelk

It is really sad to see you putting Cat down like this. I don't know Cat personally but he has always been here on the forum for advice and help when I have asked him which makes him a stand up guy in my books. Sorry to see you are too stubborn to listen!

[TheKi]

What if you find a stunning buck with a head you would want to hang on your wall and brag about on AO, would you really want a 308 or a 7mm-08hole in it?(two calibers off the top of my head) Or if you were a deer at 100 yards from a hunter about to take a shot where would you rather be shot heart or head?

Originally Posted by AndrewM

It is really sad to see you putting Cat down like this. I don't know Cat personally but he has always been here on the forum for advice and help when I have asked him which makes him a stand up guy in my books. Sorry to see you are too stubborn to listen!

what do you mean i am stubborn goes to show what class is hunting nowadays

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

well oh my you deserve a hero cookie i could grill them in my Chevy too but not very sporting

I think I"ll heed the previous advice quit feeding the troll.Adios.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

He could have missed by two feet! He could have shot through one bear and hit this one. There are a ton of possibilities here.

There is, except, I've watched this bear for two years, summer and winter.
I know the area, and the people that live there.

Not too many explanations fit this scenario, aside from a poorly made shot, or a shot deflected off target, perhaps by a twig.

The irony is, this bear could have been shot from a few feet away.
It had lived in that valley for a couple of years, it didn't cause anyone problems so we left it be.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

what do you mean i am stubborn goes to show what class is hunting nowadays

You make some pretty big AS Sumptions about a guy you have never met. I doubt you will find much more class than Cat.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Racks

Well actually, that's NOT a known fact. Sad pic for sure, and it could have been shot off, but we really don't know. Could have been clobbered by another bear or injured by a different animal, could be infection based from something as simple as an abcessed tooth, heck it could even be a grotesque birth defect of some sort. Bears dont't have doctors or plastic surgeons. As sad a sight as it is, we're really all just guessing at what happened to it.

Well not exactly. This bear was well known. I saw it last fall just before it denned up and it looked fine. When I checked on it in it's den I couldn't see it well enough to notice anything wrong, but I have no doubt that it spent the whole winter like this.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

well oh my you deserve a hero cookie i could grill them in my Chevy too but not very sporting

No, you deserve the cookie, for your ability to derail what could have been an informative thread. I admired you for your ethics based on your abilities. But, you soon forgot that there are a lot of shooters that can far out do you. You need to settle down young man.

Originally Posted by gitrdun

No, you deserve the cookie, for your ability to derail what could have been an informative thread. I admired you for your ethics based on your abilities. But, you soon forgot that there are a lot of shooters that can far out do you. You need to settle down young man.

if you can head shoot a deer 100% then have at it but the day you blow off a jaw or wound one let me know

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I take it you just got off the school bus, that will be mommy's job. As though I do have respect for your ethical behaviour, I have none otherwise.

X2, but I think Mommy and Daddy are neglecting the trips to the woodshed when he needs it, or they don't know how disrespectful he actually is while being an internet expert....but as my Gramps used to say to me, 'You can't buy wisdom, but it sure costs a lot to get.....'

The young Rem300 has cemented his reputation with me, and it is far far below Cats. Perhaps he'll learn a little class as life gives him what he needs.....

hey cat wheres your guarantee on the head shots you said everyone on this forum would take them look at the poll on general discussion

[diamonddave]

Instead of sitting on here being an ***** clown why dont you get out and go hunting, Or atleast start another thread about snowmobiles or getting some fishing updates??

[Lefty-Canuck]

rem300wsm.....in hunting there are no guarantees as in life. No need to question a grown man's decision to do one thing or another, do your own thing and be happy with your decision and leave the other man's decision and outcome for him.

Experience is key and knowledge is power....collect more of both and let us know the outcome we all learn and collect info everyday afield.

To any man who ever claimed to me that they have never lost an animal I say....either you are a cold-faced liar....or you haven't hunted long enough.

LC

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by rem300wsm

hey cat wheres your guarantee on the head shots you said everyone on this forum would take them look at the poll on general discussion

I am guessing you could be waiting a while as most likely you hit his ignore list.

you make assumptions about the woodshed its pretty bad when a youngster will wait for that perfect shot and the big experienced elder hunter will just take any shot that he is presented with, he knows the future and knows that that's the only shot he can take shooting a deer inst life or death. all you big head shot hunters sure wouldn't pull that stunt if he had a good set of all mighty antlers on his head that you would want mounted would yous. and you have killed more deer than me who cares