What's your take on these ecstasy deaths?

[grunger]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Anything that releases dopamine can be addictive.

But for the most part, E is a casual recreational substance.

Then this really is Darwin at work. It's not exactly like they can do a recall on this stuff.

P1: Hey man want to take some E?
P2: I heard there is some bad stuff out there right now that can kill you.
P1: Ya, but only 9 people have died so far. That's not that many.
P2: I guess you're right. Let's do it!

I figure anyone that takes this stuff and dies even after hearing about the risks, probably would have taken a similar risk in the future and died anyway. The brain was broken to begin with.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Stewie

MDMA...? PMMA...?

I will just stick with BEER

Me too.

Lowenbrau for the duration, Innis and Gunn for a treat, and anything from the Phillips Brewery (Victoria, BC) if I can get my hands on them.

Big fan of Imperials too.

[slivers86]

This is my opinion from working inside the healthcare system - fire away...

I think its rediculous that our tax dollars are going towards attempting to save these idiots lives. The people who partake in this lifestyle don't care about the affect they have on the other people around them, or the people who end up caring for them. Recently, I heard a statement from someone who had taken the drug, who knew the recent news and sideaffects of it, and commented that 'you only feel the surreal high of cocaine the first time, with e its everytime'. Pure ignorance in my mind, I think if you do somenthing stupid to end up in an alberta hospital, you should be billed for it. Our emergency departments across the province are flooded with 'results' of drug and alchohol abuse... don't get me wrong though, if you decide you want help, and want rehab, that is something I would 100% support.... I'm going off topic now... rants over folks

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by grunger

Then this really is Darwin at work. It's not exactly like they can do a recall on this stuff.

P1: Hey man want to take some E?
P2: I heard there is some bad stuff out there right now that can kill you.
P1: Ya, but only 9 people have died so far. That's not that many.
P2: I guess you're right. Let's do it!

I figure anyone that takes this stuff and dies even after hearing about the risks, probably would have taken a similar risk in the future and died anyway. The brain was broken to begin with.

P1: Hey man, want to be inactive and have a poor diet?
P2: I heard that it is the leading cause of death in people aged 45-65.
P1: Ya, but were not that old yet.
P2: I guess you're right. Let's do it!

Repeat ad nauseum using examples such as: Driving a motor vehicle, getting married (for men), working night shifts, taking pharmaceutical drugs etc etc

Do you know someone who was killed in a car accident?
Do you know someone who had a stroke or congestive heart failure before they retired?
Remember that time you drove in the blizzard when you didnt have to?
Does this mean their brain is broke?

I agree, given the knowledge that the current supply contains some misrepresented substances, it would be down right stupid to choose to consume them. This is why we need regulation. People are going to choose to take risks. This is why we need a safe drug supply, and this is why you have winter tires on your truck.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

P1: Hey man, want to be inactive and have a poor diet?
P2: I heard that it is the leading cause of death in people aged 45-65.
P1: Ya, but were not that old yet.
P2: I guess you're right. Let's do it!

Repeat ad nauseum using examples such as: Driving a motor vehicle, getting married (for men), working night shifts, taking pharmaceutical drugs etc etc

Do you know someone who was killed in a car accident?
Do you know someone who had a stroke or congestive heart failure before they retired?
Remember that time you drove in the blizzard when you didnt have to?
Does this mean their brain is broke?

I agree, given the knowledge that the current supply contains some misrepresented substances, it would be down right stupid to choose to consume them. This is why we need regulation. People are going to choose to take risks. This is why we need a safe drug supply, and this is why you have winter tires on your truck.

Do you mean a nanny state paid for drug supply for addictive substances should be set up?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Do you mean a nanny state paid for drug supply for addictive substances should be set up?

No, not at all.

[grunger]

We are all faced with managed risks in our day to day lives.
Whether the ecstasy you are consuming will kill you or not is a hard risk to manage.
I don't know how to fix the problem other than the people who are taking it to stop. But both the idea that people will stop taking these drugs or that the government will begin manufacturing them safely both seem unlikely to help in this current situation.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Little known fact. When King Kong traveled from Hong Kong to Africa he was the first to have his junk searched at customs.

Now I want to see a Jackie Chan movie where he works in that now famous line spoken by the traveller whose video went viral: "Hey, don't touch my junk"

[demolition101]

Who cares, do drugs and pay the price.

[dewalt18]

After having suffered through 5 pages of this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

You need to:
A) Get a hobby
B) Get a job
C) Get a girlfriend

Reviewing all your past posts, you have contributed 500 time since December 13/2011
That's 10.2 posts per day, everyday, including weekends, holidays, and work days.
WOW

Sincerely,
Steve

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by dewalt18

After having suffered through 5 pages of this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

You need to:
A) Get a hobby
B) Get a job
C) Get a girlfriend

Reviewing all your past posts, you have contributed 500 time since December 13/2011
That's 10.2 posts per day, everyday, including weekends, holidays, and work days.
WOW

Sincerely,
Steve

Thanks Steve! Well, I'm only at about half Chubbdarters rate so there is a ways to go.

Got all 3 of those by the way, although B) is pretty flexible and on the computer so...

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by dewalt18

After having suffered through 5 pages of this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

You need to:
A) Get a hobby
B) Get a job
C) Get a girlfriend

Reviewing all your past posts, you have contributed 500 time since December 13/2011
That's 10.2 posts per day, everyday, including weekends, holidays, and work days.
WOW

Sincerely,
Steve

And thanks for taking such an interest in me!

10.4

[BlackHeart]

I am sorry..... I skipped all the posts since my last , but I can imagine the division in thought. I am normally very right wing but something about these deaths is speaking to me. I don't know why.

The people that died or have been hopitalized are not the issue, but why and how they got there is. Its much easier being black hearted to pronounce judgement.

[Ken07AOVette]

No sympaathy at all for self inflicted wounds. Don't do drugs don't die from complications or poisons infused in the illegal drugs.

I would love to see some sort of airborne toxin affect 100% of all illegal narcotics, single use ends in funeral. No more problems, and no more of this ridiculous entitlement and demands from admitted drug users to legalize something that society does not need for any reason at all.

My opinion.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

No sympaathy at all for self inflicted wounds. Don't do drugs don't die from complications or poisons infused in the illegal drugs.

I would love to see some sort of airborne toxin affect 100% of all illegal narcotics, single use ends in funeral. No more problems, and no more of this ridiculous entitlement and demands from admitted drug users to legalize something that society does not need for any reason at all.

My opinion.

What do you think is the percentage if people that have tried pot is????

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

No sympaathy at all for self inflicted wounds. Don't do drugs don't die from complications or poisons infused in the illegal drugs.

I would love to see some sort of airborne toxin affect 100% of all illegal narcotics, single use ends in funeral. No more problems, and no more of this ridiculous entitlement and demands from admitted drug users to legalize something that society does not need for any reason at all.

My opinion.

Good idea. Lets kill off some 2/3 of the population that are not as pure as you are.

Let's skip the airborne toxin, and you can pick and choose who qualifies and send them directly to the gas chamber. Problem solved.

Are you aware that you are a fundamentalist Ken?

[Ken07AOVette]

If I had to guess, I would say that 40% of the people I have met have tried illegal narcotics of some sort. So just for sag's, lets say I have met 2000 people, 800 of them have done it. I would say 2% of my family have done it, there are some real straight laced ones, some real religious ones, and some that have had similar losses like I have within their own family circle.

If 800 of those 2000 fell over and died tomorrow because sd2012 was introduced into the atmosphere it would of course be devestating. The hope would be now that the remaining 1200 would steer clear of illegal drugs because sd2012 (sudden death 2012) wiped out friends and family.

I have not seen the mild, amusing subtle side of soft core use of illegal drugs that many in here sing the praises of, I saw lives ruined and continued horrific loss because of it.

Sorry.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Good idea. Lets kill off some 2/3 of the population that are not as pure as you are.

Let's skip the airborne toxin, and you can pick and choose who qualifies and send them directly to the gas chamber. Problem solved.

Are you aware that you are a fundamentalist Ken?

Why should I pick? They do that for themselves! You can take that responsibility, I don't want a life where I have to have ANYTHING at all to do with illegal drugs. I hope my family and friends feel the same as I do.

[silverdoctor]

Aaannnndddddd... on a lighter note

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

There are a lot of people that denounce the preventative educational programming out there because it's tax-payer funded, but many of these measures correspond with reductions in teen pregnancy rates, tobacco use, drug use, drinking and driving –*you name it.

As already mentioned, Montana (not known as a socialist state, either!) invested heavily in its anti-meth campaign and its graphic nature realized results.

But of course, why spend a single red cent investing in society? It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, right?

Hey you forgot to schit on Harper today.....Why not blame it all on him. Where is the two minutes of hate??? Darn I'm disappointed in you! Better give us 4 tommorrow!

Actually I think....tons of cash spent on this sort of programing in Alberta and it starts early in elementary school. I've never heard anyone in my community not suport these programs. Maybe things were different in Sask. Or maybe your so busy beating the band wagon/ regurgitating the rhetoric you forgot to take a look around and check to see what was happening.

No matter how hard we try to educate, no matter how much cash we throw at the problem we still will have the problem. Because at the end of the day some people will make the wrong choice and we can not stop them. You can drain the taxes payers purse, you can direct out entire GNP at the problem, we will still fail prevent people crom getting messed up from substance abuse.

We can not purchase peoples choices.. They will make their own decision regardless of how much is spent. The information is out their but not all horses choose to drink when lead to the water.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of stupidity. Please we all know that every drug addict out their knew drugs were addictive and dangerous before they started using.

Throwing more money after bad is just a futile effort.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Aaannnndddddd... on a lighter note

Thanks for that! Values not dogma, straighten up and fly straight!

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I do believe that these deaths will serve as a stark reminder to a very large percentage of people;not just kids,that it's best to not mess around with illegal drugs of any kind. The fact is that people who generally thought that this was a fairly safe drug,will have just got their wakeup call. Street level drugs of any kind can be dangerous. These drugs are not being made by Pharmacists.

What if 8 or 10 people die because of PCP laced pot? That may just change somebody's mind when they want to buy an ounce of chronic for a weekend camping trip with a bunch of people.

[Toirtis]

Originally Posted by grunger

Then this really is Darwin at work. It's not exactly like they can do a recall on this stuff.

P1: Hey man want to take some E?
P2: I heard there is some bad stuff out there right now that can kill you.
P1: Ya, but only 9 people have died so far. That's not that many.
P2: I guess you're right. Let's do it!

I figure anyone that takes this stuff and dies even after hearing about the risks, probably would have taken a similar risk in the future and died anyway. The brain was broken to begin with.

x2....its natural selection...don't mess with it.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Hey you forgot to schit on Harper today.....Why not blame it all on him. Where is the two minutes of hate??? Darn I'm disappointed in you! Better give us 4 tommorrow!

Actually I think....tons of cash spent on this sort of programing in Alberta and it starts early in elementary school. I've never heard anyone in my community not suport these programs. Maybe things were different in Sask. Or maybe your so busy beating the band wagon/ regurgitating the rhetoric you forgot to take a look around and check to see what was happening.

No matter how hard we try to educate, no matter how much cash we throw at the problem we still will have the problem. Because at the end of the day some people will make the wrong choice and we can not stop them. You can drain the taxes payers purse, you can direct out entire GNP at the problem, we will still fail prevent people crom getting messed up from substance abuse.

We can not purchase peoples choices.. They will make their own decision regardless of how much is spent. The information is out their but not all horses choose to drink when lead to the water.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of stupidity. Please we all know that every drug addict out their knew drugs were addictive and dangerous before they started using.

Throwing more money after bad is just a futile effort.

So which is it? The existing programs are worthwhile, or not? They work, or not?

I only spent four years in Saskatchewan, although I know the DARE program was active within the elementary school, I cannot recall any other programming aimed at young children. I don't really remember the educational interventions from when I was a child growing up in Manitoba.

Also, here is the correct quote:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ~ Albert Einstein

[timsesink]

Stupid enough to take it, stupid enough to die

[Classic_Cool]

You know between this thread and that one on pot legalization I started a few weeks ago I've seen alot of this sentiment: "Legalize it all, I don't care what they do to themselves".

You really want to think about that. The "I don't care" part. Given what this forum is I dare say that every one of us goes out into the bush and takes a risk or two. And that's our choice. It surely is. You choose to go quadding or hunting or bird photographing or whatever. And maybe one day your luck runs out and you end up with a broken back at the bottom of a ravine.

So now you've got a few days to look forward to lying in agony on the cold ground wondering when a grizzly bear is going to come finish you off. Would you want someone to help you? I don't mean your family or your hunting buddy, I mean would you want a perfect stranger to help you?

Cause you see maybe that stranger thinks you're a ****ing moron for doing what you were doing. Maybe that stranger thinks that park rangers and rescue helicopters are a huge waste of taxpayer money. Maybe he'd rather see you die as an example to the rest of us.

See what I'm getting at? Alot of people on this forum resent the government spending huge amounts of money trying to protect drug addicts from themselves. But you see the government protects ALL OF US from ourselves in one way or another. If I went missing in the woods tomorrow there would be a million dollar search and rescue operation to come find me. If you accidently drop a cigarette at home and your house catches fire, the fire department will come and save you and your family. If your 4 year old child goes missing at the mall then the police will spend a fortune looking for her.

Whether you like to think about it or not the government helps us out all the time. We all make mistakes and we all do idiotic things and we all get HELP when we need it even if the guy next to you thinks you're a moron for getting in trouble in the first place.

We all get protected EQUALLY. You can't just say "Let's save everyone except the idiots" because that word applies to all of us in some way.



On another note, it was brought up in this thread that govt-produced Ecstasy would solve problems. That's flawed I'm sorry to say. Even if E was pure and untainted it still detaches you from reality and that's dangerous in itself.

And besides kids can get themselves killed just as easily with the contents of the family medicine cabinet as with E purchased on a street corner. Taking drugs without doctor approval is always a dumb idea.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by slivers86

This is my opinion from working inside the healthcare system - fire away...

I think its rediculous that our tax dollars are going towards attempting to save these idiots lives.

Gotta say I'm stunned to learn you work in the healthcare industry. I can't imagine what you actually do or who you serve.

You must not be working with anyone who is:
1) obese
2) has smoked
3) has alcohol related problems
4) has not diligently taken their medication
5) was injured doing dangerous acts or through any fault of their own otherwise.
6) doesn't take care of their physical fitness or diet, given the copious amounts of public information out there about that.

All basically self-inflicted illnesses and injuries.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Gotta say I'm stunned to learn you work in the healthcare industry. I can't imagine what you actually do or who you serve.

You must not be working with anyone who is:
1) obese
2) has smoked
3) has alcohol related problems
4) has not diligently taken their medication
5) was injured doing dangerous acts or through any fault of their own otherwise.
6) doesn't take care of their physical fitness or diet, given the copious amounts of public information out there about that.

All basically self-inflicted illnesses and injuries.

Do these things harm the individual more than his family? Are any of these problems getting better through education?

Does the addict harm himself or himself and everyone around him including total strangers?


and lastly, why do they call it 'dope'

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Do these things harm the individual more than his family? Are any of these problems getting better through education?

Does the addict harm himself or himself and everyone around him including total strangers?


and lastly, why do they call it 'dope'

Sorry Red, I'm missing your point. Elaborate?

[Redfrog]

In spite of rumors to the contrary, it isn't a perfect world.

In a perfect world no one would take risks of any kind. It is up to the individual to decide if the risk is worth the payoff. The more info a person has available to help with the decision the better the outcome should be. In Theory>

For a drug addict there is only destruction in his path, his own and for all those around him.

If I'm obese and die from complications, it affects those around me who has to deal with the senseless loss of the life of a loved one.

An addict must support his habit. drains the resources of police and courts that should be protecting law abiding citizens, medical costs etc. etc. etc.

Any idea how much it costs to bring a junkie back after an overdose. Last I heard was $3500 at the scene. I've talked to LEo who say they have had the same person od every week.

How many smokers do you know that have cancer or the other regular consequences from smoking. How about obesity. How many do you personally know? Now how many people do you personally know who have been negatively affected by drugs from pot to heroine to crack?

It's not a perfect world, and we sure won't make it better by legalizing things that make it worse.

Is there a solution?

Yep. Don't do drugs. Unrealistic?

No more so than repeatedly playing in the traffic on the Deerfoot. could be exciting but with the known risk is it worth it?