204 vs 223

[FunwithGuns]

Originally Posted by u_cant_rope_the_wind

this is a very interesting topic
as i have been looking at the same idea but was curious about the 222
it doesn't sound like a very popular caliber , but the 17 fireball or 204 they sound like fun in the gopher patch

The 222 is the parent cartridge to both the 223 and the 204. Unless you are buying used or inheriting a gun already chambered in 222 you are better off going to either of the "child" cartridges. The 222 is still popular in places that don't allow military calibers, not a problem in Canuckistan.

[Dean2]

To be fair to Wolf308, if you use a 204, with the same inputs, except a 10 mph cross wind, and a 325 yard zero, the most you are above line of sight is 4.6 inches at 200 yards, and you are only 7.8 low at 400 and 24.3" of drift.That is pretty laser like.

With the 223 using a Blitzking 40 grain bullet at 3700 fps, I can actually handload mine to 3850 with no pressure signe, and a 325 yard zero, max above line of sight is 4.9", 8" low at 400 and only 21.9" of drift.At 500 yards the drop is almost identical, and the 223 is still leading slightly in he wind drift.

Since ballistics don't lie, you can see there really isn't a hill of beans difference between the 223 and 204, with light bullets, though the 223 has a much better selection of heavy bullets. Pick the one you like and have a blast.


Range

Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 4000 1066 17.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 86
25 -0.1 2 3835 979 16.43 0.019 0.1 1 76
50 1.1 -8 3675 900 15.75 0.039 0.3 2 67
75 2.2 -11 3522 826 15.09 0.060 0.7 3 59
100 3.1 -12 3374 758 14.46 0.082 1.2 5 52
125 3.8 -12 3230 695 13.84 0.105 1.9 6 46
150 4.3 -11 3092 637 13.25 0.128 2.8 7 40
175 4.5 -10 2957 582 12.67 0.153 3.8 8 35
200 4.6 -9 2826 532 12.11 0.179 5.1 10 30
225 4.3 -7 2700 485 11.57 0.206 6.6 11 27
250 3.7 -6 2577 442 11.04 0.235 8.3 13 23
275 2.9 -4 2457 402 10.53 0.265 10.3 14 20
300 1.6 -2 2341 365 10.03 0.296 12.5 16 17
325 0.0 0 2229 331 9.55 0.329 14.9 18 15
350 -2.1 2 2119 299 9.08 0.363 17.7 19 13
375 -4.7 5 2012 270 8.62 0.400 20.8 21 11
400 -7.8 7 1908 243 8.18 0.438 24.3 23 9
425 -11.4 10 1808 218 7.75 0.478 28.1 25 8
450 -15.8 13 1712 195 7.34 0.521 32.3 27 7
475 -20.9 17 1619 175 6.94 0.566 36.9 30 6
500 -26.8 21 1531 156 6.56 0.614 42.0 32 5

Same comparison for a 223 with a 40 grain Blitzking bullet at 3700 fps and a 10 mph cross wind.
Range
Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 3700 1216 21.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 122
25 0.0 0 3567 1130 20.39 0.021 0.1 1 109
50 1.3 -10 3439 1050 19.65 0.042 0.3 2 98
75 2.5 -13 3314 975 18.94 0.064 0.6 3 87
100 3.4 -13 3192 905 18.24 0.087 1.1 4 78
125 4.2 -13 3074 839 17.57 0.111 1.8 5 70
150 4.7 -12 2959 778 16.91 0.136 2.6 7 62
175 4.9 -11 2847 720 16.27 0.162 3.6 8 55
200 4.9 -9 2737 665 15.64 0.189 4.7 9 49
225 4.6 -8 2631 615 15.03 0.217 6.1 10 44
250 4.0 -6 2527 567 14.44 0.246 7.6 12 39
275 3.0 -4 2425 522 13.86 0.276 9.4 13 34
300 1.7 -2 2326 481 13.29 0.308 11.4 14 30
325 0.0 0 2230 442 12.74 0.341 13.6 16 27
350 -2.2 2 2136 405 12.20 0.375 16.1 18 23
375 -4.8 5 2043 371 11.68 0.411 18.9 19 20
400 -8.0 8 1954 339 11.16 0.449 21.9 21 18
425 -11.7 11 1866 309 10.66 0.488 25.3 23 16
450 -16.1 14 1782 282 10.18 0.529 28.9 25 14
475 -21.1 17 1700 257 9.71 0.573 32.9 26 12
500 -26.9 21 1621 233 9.26 0.618 37.3 29 10

[catnthehat]

I'm not arguing that fact, but what wolf said was " zero at 250 yards and hold dead on at 400" or to that effect.
Too many of us here have heard these stories before, and it just ain't so.
There's no free lunch when it comes to velocity and trajectory....
Cat

[FrostyinHell]

I own two .204 Rugers and a .223 Rem. I have to say that all of the testing that I have done with both, there is a reason that I own 2 of the 204's. It will never disappoint you. It is very forgiving with reloads and almost no recoil. You can crank up the magnification on your scope and still see the gopher turn into red mist, and you don't need a heavy rifle to do this. The 204 is a great gopher and coyote gun out to about 300m, after that (as with the .223 Rem) wind starts to play nasty games with them. Having said that, the .204 Ruger gets there a whole lot flatter in trajectory than the .223 Rem. To me advantage goes to the .204 Ruger every time. I have never met anyone that actually spent some time behind a quality .204 that didn't fall in love with it.

[Prdtrgttr]

I own both. A 223 in a Short barelled Desert Recon M700, and a 204 in an upgraded SPS.
I prefer the 223 for hunting coyotes. In order to achieve the accuracy I wanted out of the 204, I needed to shoot 35gr bullets with a lower grain of powder, and much slower fps, which leaves more of a rainbow trajectory.
I can push a 52gr bullet out of my 223 faster, and more accurately than a 35gr bullet out of my 204 accurately...
I came from a 17 Remington into a 204, and found that the 204 wasn't doing anything better than my 17 could already do.
From reports I've heard, the 204 real world has lower velocity than the advertised fps.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm not arguing that fact, but what wolf said was " zero at 250 yards and hold dead on at 400" or to that effect.
Too many of us here have heard these stories before, and it just ain't so.
There's no free lunch when it comes to velocity and trajectory....
Cat

Cat absolutely not taking any exception with you or what you posted. You were completely right that a 250 yard zero doesn't get yyou point blank on a coyote at 400. All I was doing was trying to say that with the right zero, both the 223 and 204 are pretty damn flat shooting cartridges and with a 300 yard zero, booth are pretty close to a dead on hold to 400 on a coyote, though not quite cause there aren't too many coyotes much more than 8" or so through the chest.

Frostyinhell

Check the poted ballistics chart. If you call .2 of an inch at 400 or .1 at 500 hundred "A whole lot flatter than a 223" then your definition of a "whole lot" is no where near the same as mine. How long have you been telling her, "That is a whole Lot"?

[Git r Done]

[QUOTE=Dean2;964845]Cat absolutely not taking any exception with you or what you posted. You were completely right that a 250 yard zero doesn't get yyou point blank on a coyote at 400. All I was doing was trying to say that with the right zero, both the 223 and 204 are pretty damn flat shooting cartridges and with a 300 yard zero, booth are pretty close to a dead on hold to 400 on a coyote, though not quite cause there aren't too many coyotes much more than 8" or so through the chest.

Frostyinhell

Check the poted ballistics chart. If you call .2 of an inch at 400 or .1 at 500 hundred "A whole lot flatter than a 223" then your definition of a "whole lot" is no where near the same as mine. How long have you been telling her, "That is a whole Lot"?
Its a whole lot!

[chuck]

Oh the 223. Here is the results of a new CDL's maiden voyage. I bedded it and got rid of the horrid pressure point and fed it the cheapest Remington 55 grain factory ammunition money can buy. Oh and I even stuck a POS Leupold on top.

[kennedy]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

When the .223 is loaded with which bullet?
The point I'm trying to make is shoot what you want , they both will do well, depending on the nut behind the bolt.
I've been told the 308 is no good for 1,000 yard shooting anymore, but there are top shooters still using it.
Theory is great, but bullets downrange is the real test.
Cat

Cat, just wondering which one is better than the .308 for 1000 yrds

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by kennedy

Cat, just wondering which one is better than the .308 for 1000 yrds

Do you mean is the .223 better than the 308 for 1,000 yard shooting?
There are proponents for both cartridges, I use the .223 out to 1,000 occasionally but not often, it will get out there with excellent accuracy if the rifle is built properly and the ammo is compatible - I have never seen .223 ammo in a store in Edmonton that I personally would send to 1,000.
We are talking target shooting and competition, mind you, not hunting .....
Cat

[Rovin]

!

[nekred]

I am glad you asked that question because I am pondering the same thing.

For me I have an awesom little .17 hMR that is deadly accurate and have hit gophers and other varmints (magpies on private land) beyond 300 yards.

The wind does play havoc sometimes but I love to play long distance in the wind to learn to read it better. The nice thing about the 17HMR is that being a rimfire I can use it where centerfires cannot be used.

I have some new gopher areas where I can stretch more ditance and was thinking of going centerfire and I have cosidered .17, .204, and .223 as well.

For me it is about money as well. Which is cheaper to buy factories for .223, .204, or .17.

I also have looked at the 218 Bee, 220 swift, and 22 Hornet as well because I can also reload.

As for coyotes I am not worried .270 works just fine, or a finle crafted carbon arrow with a SGH.

[dollman]

well i used 223, 17 rem and 204 for long range rabbit shooting all shoot very good i now use a 220 swift as far as 223 v 204 if i had to have one for varmints it would be a 204 ,but 223 is just as good, but i like the 204 i was going buy a new 204 ruger, but i did see that hornady have a new 17 hornet out 20 grn pill at 3650 fps any body know whos making the rifles for it

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by FrostyinHell

I own two .204 Rugers and a .223 Rem. I have to say that all of the testing that I have done with both, there is a reason that I own 2 of the 204's. It will never disappoint you. It is very forgiving with reloads and almost no recoil. You can crank up the magnification on your scope and still see the gopher turn into red mist, and you don't need a heavy rifle to do this. The 204 is a great gopher and coyote gun out to about 300m, after that (as with the .223 Rem) wind starts to play nasty games with them. Having said that, the .204 Ruger gets there a whole lot flatter in trajectory than the .223 Rem. To me advantage goes to the .204 Ruger every time. I have never met anyone that actually spent some time behind a quality .204 that didn't fall in love with it.

I agree ^^^^^ I have 2) .204's and 2) .222. The .222's are deadly accurate but so are the .204's. BC wise the .22 bullets, 50grs, are .213 Nosler BT if memory serves me right and the .204 40 gr. are .272 Hornady V- Max. Velocity is greater and recoil is on par with a sporterized 22 rim fire with my heavy rifles (10# or so with scopes). as for powder consumption my .222's are loaded to 23.5 grs of powder the .204's are right on 25 grs. So no big difference there.

I choose a Ruger MKII with a 26 inch barrel because I figured I needed the extra barrel length to use all the powder in the round. The second rifle is a custom job I bought of this web sight with a 26" barrel as well and it only shots slightly better then the off the shelf Ruger and the Ruger is a one holer if I do my part.

As for wind drift I find that the tails of the smaller .204 bullet being whisked off to Wisconsin are FALSE I actually find that my .222's drifts much more in the wind at 300+ yards on our windy range here in the Hat.

I thought long and hard about buying the .204 but now that I have, I am a believer

[tikybear]

THE 204 IS HARD TO BEAT. i HAVE A 20 TACTICAL AND I WILL TAKE IT OVER ALL OF THEM. IT IS ALL MOST AS FAST AS A 204 AND IS CHEAPER TO LOAD FOR BRASS AND POWDER. ALVIN

[Rod1960]

Giving this a bump rather than start a new thread.

With regard to my CZ thread.... I don't reload so will be buying factory rounds, availability/selection of .204 ammunition seems limited where as .223 is varied and plenty.

Should I reconsider the .204 and get a .223? I'm looking for the lowest recoil possible.

Thanks.

[wolf308]

with my personel preference for 250 yd zero on my 204, you have to aim a little high for the 400 mark but not much.no guessing, a little above its back and bang, it goes down(talking coyote medicine,not gophers). guess i should have clarified a little more. just saying its super flat shooting.

mine likes the smaller bullets and not the bigger ones,if your 204 likes the bigger ones id say go with that for a gopher calibre,cause like cat says the wind is the 204s only nemesis

[gatorr]

Nothing beats a 17 fireball for gophers.At 4000fps it vaporizes them and with no recoil you get to watch the action. Very accurate handloads with 20 grain bergers 16 grains of powder a one pound jar goes a long ways. I shot prairie dogs in Montana with mine and it absolutley blew them up. For bullet drift unless your shooting very strong winds it does very well. Personal best is 330 laser ranged yards on a prairie dog.

[wolf308]

my handloads at muzzle do 4125 with the 204. 32 gr sierra.316 yard cold bore shot nailed one(theres very few left on my farm,i have to savour them for the long shots ,lol).