Crown land used by oil companies for private hunts

[honda450]

Originally Posted by hal53

they are NOT blocking access to Crown Land, at times, they are blocking access to "their" roads...
BTW, I didn't vote for her......never mind....lol

They are building roads on crown land to be used by crown people, don't care who built it. Build at your own risk if ya feel there is oil here. Crown people did not ask for a road there.

Originally Posted by honda450

Crown people did not ask for a road there.

Actually they kinda did........

[hal53]

Originally Posted by honda450

They are building roads on crown land to be used by crown people, don't care who built it. Build at your own risk if ya feel there is oil here. Crown people did not ask for a road there.

nope, they didn't ask for it there, or pay for it, once it's there, they all want to use it????..seems like kind of a double standard?? doesn't it?

[dogslayer403]

As far as any oil company putting on a private hunt I call BS I do not know of one that will allow employees to carry firearms at work or on their lease so it would be individuals commiting the actions mentioned if they were indeed in company vehicles I would contact their office Im sure it would be dealt with right away. And they did not lock you out of the crown land they locked you out of their road GO AROUND it. It is hard to complain about them anyway when if they werent there neither would you be as the roads never would have been built.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually they kinda did........

How so............

[honda450]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually they kinda did........

OK OK then General Public.................hehe

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How so............

By giving the government a mandate to get oil out of the ground. The road is an unavoidable product of that lust for oil.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by hal53

nope, they didn't ask for it there, or pay for it, once it's there, they all want to use it????..seems like kind of a double standard?? doesn't it?

I look at it as the price of doing business in our Province. No double standard.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by honda450

I look at it as the price of doing business in our Province. No double standard.

I see..... and butchering the west country for seismic lines and leaving them, is a price as well????

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

By giving the government a mandate to get oil out of the ground. The road is an unavoidable product of that lust for oil.

Yep, you're right. Keeping the world's populations thirst for oil quenched is almost as important as keeping the world fed.....many unavoidable products there also.

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Yep, you're right. Keeping the world's populations thirst for oil quenched is almost as important as keeping the world fed.....many unavoidable products there also.

I agree....we did mandate the government to aid in beef production as well. I hardly see how that equates to the people of Alberta being excluded from crown land though.....it doesn't in the oil industry. I fail to see the parallel you are atttempting to draw.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by hal53

I see..... and butchering the west country for seismic lines and leaving them, is a price as well????

Yup thats about how it goes Hal. How ya think we find those spots for you all can drill?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by honda450

Yup thats about how it goes Hal. How ya think we find those spots for you all can drill?

I understand that Honda, just not sure I'm getting your point regarding the roads?.....

[honda450]

Originally Posted by hal53

I understand that Honda, just not sure I'm getting your point regarding the roads?.....

The roads were built on Crown Land to be used by the General Public. The General Public did not ask for the roads to be built. It was a oil company to make a profit from underground resorses. They want the road, they pay upkeep.
Cost of doing business.

Keep in mind if I got a company logo on my truck and tear up the road them boys is coming after me now, thats OK, YA YA never got my safe work permit yet. hehehe

[hal53]

Originally Posted by honda450

The roads were built on Crown Land to be used by the General Public. The General Public did not ask for the roads to be built. It was a oil company to make a profit from underground resorses. They want the road, they pay upkeep.
Cost of doing business.

Keep in mind if I got a company logo on my truck and tear up the road them boys is coming after me now, thats OK, YA YA never got my safe work permit yet. hehehe

sigh...okay, so I keep signing the bills for the roads in the fall, even though the office "says WTF!!!, I am NOT paying that agin!!!, put a gate on it!!!, they can walk in!"...we as John Q Public do not own the road, funny how after a few years here, NOBODY is a road hunter, but tell them they can't drive a road and the howling starts....you want to hunt there???...pack it in , like you did before the road was there, no one else will be there, you should have a great hunt!

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Rocky.. you're missing an important piece. ANYONE is welcome on crown lands. You still have access to the exact same land as them, just have to walk in or find another road/trail. (ie. no more hunting from the driver's seat).

I know that. And I don't hunt from the driver's seat, BTW.

The problem here are the instances I am aware of where gates are opened for employees who drive in on opening day. The problem here is where gates that protect roads with signs that designate the area as a wildlife protected area are opened up and employees go hunting and lock the gate behind them.

How do I know this?

I have seen it. Like you say, it's Crown land. I have, for instance, walked 5+ miles in the dark down such a closed road to get into an area before light on opening day only to find a pickup truck parked in there by someone who obviously had a key to said locked gate, drove in and locked the gate behind him. They were hunting from the driver's seat, as you lecture me about. Must be nice to have those keys - you drive, everyone else walks. You get there first. You take your meat out in a truck running, no doubt, on your free diesel. I don't care about the diesel, that's none of my business. I do care about public land.

A road built on public land is a public road. If the O&G company locks off the road, it must be because they have permission to do so and it must be for the purposes in said permission - NOT to create a private hunting preserve!

That's the kind of thing I, and others, are talking about.

If the road is closed, it is closed. It can't be closed for me and open for you.

Understand, now?

[honda450]

Originally Posted by hal53

sigh...okay, so I keep signing the bills for the roads in the fall, even though the office "says WTF!!!, I am NOT paying that agin!!!, put a gate on it!!!, they can walk in!"...we as John Q Public do not own the road, funny how after a few years here, NOBODY is a road hunter, but tell them they can't drive a road and the howling starts....you want to hunt there???...pack it in , like you did before the road was there, no one else will be there, you should have a great hunt!

Ya don't look at the hours ya just sign thats the way it is.

[bearbuster]

Really? I believe there is an article in this months mag discussing access management for the grizz. In the area I frequent the local oil company was told they must lock gates by srd to manage public access to core grizzly area. Not for private hunting. I call bs. What has been actually happening is the gates were locked approx 4yrs ago. Then about 2years ago the loggers moved in and IMHO removed all the core grizz habitat. So all the trees that were there we're protected from the crazy destructive public so the loggers could move while the bears were sleeping. If I was approached by someone in hunting season that wanted access behind the gates I would have no issues letting themin

[bearbuster]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I know that. And I don't hunt from the driver's seat, BTW.

The problem here are the instances I am aware of where gates are opened for employees who drive in on opening day. The problem here is where gates that protect roads with signs that designate the area as a wildlife protected area are opened up and employees go hunting and lock the gate behind them.

How do I know this?

I have seen it. Like you say, it's Crown land. I have, for instance, walked 5+ miles in the dark down such a closed road to get into an area before light on opening day only to find a pickup truck parked in there by someone who obviously had a key to said locked gate, drove in and locked the gate behind him. They were hunting from the driver's seat, as you lecture me about. Must be nice to have those keys - you drive, everyone else walks. You get there first. You take your meat out in a truck running, no doubt, on your free diesel. I don't care about the diesel, that's none of my business. I do care about public land.

A road built on public land is a public road. If the O&G company locks off the road, it must be because they have permission to do so and it must be for the purposes in said permission - NOT to create a private hunting preserve!

That's the kind of thing I, and others, are talking about.

If the road is closed, it is closed. It can't be closed for me and open for you.

Understand, now?

Yup ur right.if you want in just ask

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by hal53

sigh...okay, so I keep signing the bills for the roads in the fall, even though the office "says WTF!!!, I am NOT paying that agin!!!, put a gate on it!!!, they can walk in!"...we as John Q Public do not own the road, funny how after a few years here, NOBODY is a road hunter, but tell them they can't drive a road and the howling starts....you want to hunt there???...pack it in , like you did before the road was there, no one else will be there, you should have a great hunt!

Are you for real???? Really?? Hunters tear up the road?? Not the heavy equipment or the tankers or the msitenance guys or the oil guys that go in to check gauges etc irregardless of how mucked up??? And its the hunters???? Who the F are you kidding?

A lot of zones open up nov 1....well into frozen ground time....it's not exact so don't take that way....and yay areas north open earlier but that because of remoteness and reduced hi ting pressure ....ala less road use.

Yep it's the hunters tearing up the road with 4x4 1ton trucks.... Not anyone else like that....all the oil guys and tankers and heavy equipment use hovercrafts.

[BlackHeart]

And Hal just to emphasize my point, next week I'm build a road across your lawn and putting a locked gate on it. My road, my rules, go around it or walk. I paid for the road therefore I own it. And let's just forget the few little facts that the road was built with your clay on your land for my convience.

[JB_AOL]

I know that. And I don't hunt from the driver's seat, BTW.

I should've put that as another paragraph.. (wasn't directed at you)

The problem here is where gates that protect roads with signs that designate the area as a wildlife protected area are opened up and employees go hunting and lock the gate behind them.

I don't see anywhere that it mentioned protected area. OP is mad because employees (who may or may not have been working ie on call), used to road to go to a public area.

I have seen it. Like you say, it's Crown land. I have, for instance, walked 5+ miles in the dark down such a closed road to get into an area before light on opening day only to find a pickup truck parked in there by someone who obviously had a key to said locked gate, drove in and locked the gate behind him. They were hunting from the driver's seat, as you lecture me about. Must be nice to have those keys - you drive, everyone else walks. You get there first. You take your meat out in a truck running, no doubt, on your free diesel. I don't care about the diesel, that's none of my business. I do care about public land.

How do you know they didn't get permission to use the road?

A road built on public land is a public road. If the O&G company locks off the road, it must be because they have permission to do so and it must be for the purposes in said permission

agreed.. But the o/g co. can give permission for individuals to use the road.

I know that. And I don't hunt from the driver's seat, BTW.

The problem here are the instances I am aware of where gates are opened for employees who drive in on opening day. The problem here is where gates that protect roads with signs that designate the area as a wildlife protected area are opened up and employees go hunting and lock the gate behind them.

How do I know this?

I have seen it. Like you say, it's Crown land. I have, for instance, walked 5+ miles in the dark down such a closed road to get into an area before light on opening day only to find a pickup truck parked in there by someone who obviously had a key to said locked gate, drove in and locked the gate behind him. They were hunting from the driver's seat, as you lecture me about. Must be nice to have those keys - you drive, everyone else walks. You get there first. You take your meat out in a truck running, no doubt, on your free diesel. I don't care about the diesel, that's none of my business. I do care about public land.

A road built on public land is a public road. If the O&G company locks off the road, it must be because they have permission to do so and it must be for the purposes in said permission - NOT to create a private hunting preserve!

That's the kind of thing I, and others, are talking about.

If the road is closed, it is closed. It can't be closed for me and open for you.

NOT to create a private hunting preserve!

Well. it's time everyone actually READ what we are saying. you can't use the road, but you CAN use the area. It is NOT a private hunting preserve. It's a PRIVATE ROAD.

A road built on public land is a public road.

Yes..
But a road built on leased land belongs to the leasee. Deal with it.

If the road is closed, it is closed. It can't be closed for me and open for you.

YES it can. It's call permissions..

And Hal just to emphasize my point, next week I'm build a road across your lawn and putting a locked gate on it. My road, my rules, go around it or walk. I paid for the road therefore I own it. And let's just forget the few little facts that the road was built with your clay on your land for my convience.

Sorry But your example doesn't work. If you gave he gave you permission to build and gate a road across his land, yes that is exactly how it works.

[PoppaW]

I am shocked how selfish people are and how quick we blame others.

I could have started a thread on greedy hunters blocking access to the slaughter grounds but i just drove around the 5th wheel parked across the cutline. They didnt like me driving through camp but could not deny me. Lots of land. Lots of elk. Lets try to play nice.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I You take your meat out in a truck running, no doubt, on your free diesel. I don't care about the diesel, that's none of my business.

I am in the oil industry and a lot of others on this site and I bet a lot of us are wondering where we can get this free diesel. I don't know where you got this idea from but there are very few in the industry that get free diesel.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

I should've put that as another paragraph.. (wasn't directed at you)



I don't see anywhere that it mentioned protected area. OP is mad because employees (who may or may not have been working ie on call), used to road to go to a public area.



How do you know they didn't get permission to use the road?



agreed.. But the o/g co. can give permission for individuals to use the road.





Well. it's time everyone actually READ what we are saying. you can't use the road, but you CAN use the area. It is NOT a private hunting preserve. It's a PRIVATE ROAD.


Yes..
But a road built on leased land belongs to the leasee. Deal with it.



YES it can. It's call permissions..



Sorry But your example doesn't work. If you gave he gave you permission to build and gate a road across his land, yes that is exactly how it works.

Yes, same as any grazing lease, or lease on public land, there can be, and are, stipulations. Did the OP call the Oil company and ask for permission, like you would to a Farmer who leases crown land? Sometimes the gates are there for Safety concerns, sometimes for wildlife management, sometimes for cattle.
If a rancher builds and maintains a road on his lease, to manage his cows do you automatically assume it's fare game to do as you please regardless of the investment made by the leaseholder? It Doesn't work that way!

[duffy4]

Honda;
The roads were built on Crown Land to be used by the General Public.

If you really believe that then there is no point in continuing a "discussion" with you on this subject.

[BlackHeart]

Well now for dirty little secrets. Oil and gas leases on crown land....how do they work???? Can't speak for every exception but this is how I understand most to work.

The O&G companies pay their lease cost on the concept of royalty on production from that well site and the pool under it. They are granted access and the right to build roads to facilitate this. Does this mean they actually lease the crown land that the road is on???.....NO! They have been granted a right to use crown land. Are they paying on the amount of crown land used....NO!

Back to the lease payments....this a Bull S term to use because it's actually a royalty agreement based on production granting them use of the surface location and granting the privilege of building a road to get that oil. (And to those that say walk in carrying your camp, then you do the same....carry in you pipe on your back and leave the trees up to the well site alone...you see how ridiculous that is) We both want to harvest resources in that area, and below you will see we all paid for that road.

Now how is that royalty calculated??? Is it on surface used??...NO. Does it have anything to do with the surface use??...NO! That's a condition requirement irrelevant to what the O&G firms pay.

Royalties are calculated after costs, including building that road, and the costs to maintain it. So who really is paying for that road in the end????......it is the public/crown out of their share of the royalties. And there is another deduction from royalties....return on invested capital 15% or higher in cases. So not only do we (public/crown)pay for the road, pay for the maintenance, but we give them a healthy return on what they put into in that road in capital....all out of our share of the royalties.

So Hal?....who, in the end, really is paying for those cheques your writing??????

[hal53]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Well now for dirty little secrets. Oil and gas leases on crown land....how do they work???? Can't speak for every exception but this is how I understand most to work.

The O&G companies pay their lease cost on the concept of royalty on production from that well site and the pool under it. They are granted access and the right to build roads to facilitate this. Does this mean they actually lease the crown land that the road is on???.....NO! They have been granted a right to use crown land. Are they paying on the amount of crown land used....NO!

Back to the lease payments....this a Bull S term to use because it's actually a royalty agreement based on production granting them use of the surface location and granting the privilege of building a road to get that oil. (And to those that say walk in carrying your camp, then you do the same....carry in you pipe on your back and leave the trees up to the well site alone...you see how ridiculous that is) We both want to harvest resources in that area, and below you will see we all paid for that road.

Now how is that royalty calculated??? Is it on surface used??...NO. Does it have anything to do with the surface use??...NO! That's a condition requirement irrelevant to what the O&G firms pay.

Royalties are calculated after costs, including building that road, and the costs to maintain it. So who really is paying for that road in the end????......it is the public/crown out of their share of the royalties. And there is another deduction from royalties....return on invested capital 15% or higher in cases. So not only do we (public/crown)pay for the road, pay for the maintenance, but we give them a healthy return on what they put into in that road in capital....all out of our share of the royalties.

So Hal?....who, in the end, really is paying for those cheques your writing??????

get your facts straight....then we can discuss, until that time , I am done here, you know very little about how it works

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by hal53

get your facts straight....then we can discuss, until that time , I am done here, you know very little about how it works

I have done some reading, but the majority of info is based on legal cases. I not an insider..... So enlighten us. Begin with how the ongoing leases are paid for and what is involved. What is payment based on? Surface or production? What is deducted from the payments? Go ahead, I'll listen.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

I have done some reading, but the majority of info is based on legal cases. I not an insider..... So enlighten us. Begin with how the ongoing leases are paid for and what is involved. What is payment based on? Surface or production? What is deducted from the payments? Go ahead, I'll listen.

I'm at my rig right now and don't have the time to explain it all, I will later once the crew is done for the day. In the mean time, explain to me what on earth royalties have to do with the surface rights lease???