New Tires make a differance, WOW!

[tbiddy]

Originally Posted by tbiddy

I've been thinking of getting a set of winter tires as I do have an extra set of rims now. I do quite a bit of highway driving but I also do my far share of gravel roads and lease roads. I also need something decent in snow as I do have to drive around landowner fields for work. Are a set of winter tires worth it? How do they stand up on the gravel/lease roads?

I should've mentioned I am currently running Hankook Dynapro ATM's
(LT265/70R17). They are great in the mud and snow.

[couleefolk]

i've been using studded tires since the early 90's, never ever looked back, more than willing to have summer tires and winter tires. currently running a set of wrangler territories on the mrs tahoe, hankook rt03s on the half ton, wintermarks on the jetta, and eager to try my new grabber at2s on the 1 ton. all these tires are studded. was quite suprised that the hankook mt's with no sipes seem to handle just as good if not better than the territories. one of my biggest concerns, my father gets into his 60's and decides to try studs, and now he doesn't realize when it is super icy and he should be slowing down. over confidence can be worse than scared with bald tires. i would like to see that law here in Manitoba about having bad tires and getting fined.

[gmcmax05]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The sipes are just as important as the softness of the rubber for traction on ice. I was referring to any time you aren't actually driving on ice or snow. Soft rubber and sipes let the tread flex to grip the ice better, but they also result in the tread having less stability when you brake or steer hard on pavement that isn't covered in ice or snow. If you look at the link that I posted, you will see where the vehicles actually went out of control during hard steering or braking, because the tread had plenty of traction, but not enough stability.

Really!! I think ill take my chances on dry or wet pavement withgood ice tires than run around all winter with chitty all seasons. Seeing as you said you take public transportation, you probably don't drive when it's crappy. I live in the north of the province, public transportation is not an option.

[elkhunter11]

Seeing as you said you take public transportation, you probably don't drive when it's crappy.

Where did I post that I take public transportation? I haven't taken public transportation in over 30 years.

I live in the north of the province,

I probably live as far, or even farther North than you do.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11
The sipes are just as important as the softness of the rubber for traction on ice. I was referring to any time you aren't actually driving on ice or snow. Soft rubber and sipes let the tread flex to grip the ice better, but they also result in the tread having less stability when you brake or steer hard on pavement that isn't covered in ice or snow. If you look at the link that I posted, you will see where the vehicles actually went out of control during hard steering or braking, because the tread had plenty of traction, but not enough stability.

Go reread your article... The tests were conducted in the summer at 20c. That's when I stopped reading. If you were to repeat the same test at - 20c,the results would be the exact opposite. That's the worst study, I could've told u that winters perform worse in summer just by looking at the name. They are designed for winter, once the temperature gets above 10c, more importantly the ground temperature gets above 10c, that's when winters can be dangerous. I bet no more dangerous than all seasons on ice.

[silverdoctor]

Just dropped $825 on some studded rubber and rims. Short test drive, good so far.

I changed them tonite, didn't realize my old avalanche snows were so bad. Been running them for 2 years straight, haven't taken them off.

[elkhunter11]

They are designed for winter, once the temperature gets above 10c, more importantly the ground temperature gets above 10c, that's when winters can be dangerous.

And a lot of people put their winter tires on in September or October,, and take them off in March or April and they end up driving in temperatures above 10C, in some cases 20C or warmer. Rather than change tires back and forth, to try and have the best tire on for the changing conditions, I will just continue to keep top quality all season tires on my vehicles, and continue driving to the conditions, as I have done for the past 36 years. If winter tires become compulsory in more locations, the tire companies will respond by making more all season tires that qualify with the regulations, and I will choose from those tires, so that I don't have to change out tires with the seasons.

I changed them tonite, didn't realize my old avalanche snows were so bad. Been running them for 2 years straight, haven't taken them off.

Exactly why I decided not to run snow tires all year. Worn snow tires aren't much if any better than good all seasons in winter, and they don't work at all well in summer.

[Knot Rite]

Originally Posted by manion1

For a little bit more money you can buy snowflake rated all seasons which are really good on ice, not as good as a dedicated winter tire, but you don't have to own two sets of tires

If ya what too you can.

Bobby

[Kim473]

My last set of Coopers were the m/s, left them on year round for about 4 years and 80,000 km they were good IMO. Same tire this time but got them studded. The Cooper M+S does have the mountain symbol on them and are rated for winter driving. $ 927.00 studded, total price installed at CT. Studds were $121.00 The new ones with studds are Great! on this ice and snow that we got now in Edmonton. I love them!

Only one problem, When I get stuck now!
I know I will be really stuck!
2 wheel drive get stuck, 4X4 get even stucker, 4X4 with really good tires, get even stucker yet! I better load the shuvel, gravel bags and tow rope now. LOL.

[JohninAB]

Became a convert to snow tires on my car last year. Put a new set on the new car two weeks ago. Drove into Edmonton Wednesday morning. No issues for this guy. Car handled flawlessly. Highly recommend a good set of snow/winter tires for everyone.

On my 4x4, I just run all terrain tires. Installed a new set this past week as well. Firestone Destination AT's, seem to be working fine so far.

At the end of the day, paying attention to road conditions and driving for them is the best defense. Those driving on inadequate tires (bald, summer radials etc) do tend to get their just rewards for their silliness.

[cranky]

Originally Posted by Kim473

My last set of Coopers were the m/s, left them on year round for about 4 years and 80,000 km they were good IMO. Same tire this time but got them studded. The Cooper M+S does have the mountain symbol on them and are rated for winter driving. $ 927.00 studded, total price installed at CT. Studds were $121.00 The new ones with studds are Great! on this ice and snow that we got now in Edmonton. I love them!

Only one problem, When I get stuck now!
I know I will be really stuck!
2 wheel drive get stuck, 4X4 get even stucker, 4X4 with really good tires, get even stucker yet! I better load the shuvel, gravel bags and tow rope now. LOL.

Love my Coopers. Great road hazard warrantee too. Had a chance to test the warrantee out a few weeks ago. Chunk of steel imbedded in sidewall at 7000klm's. New tire free mounted and balanced too.

[JB_AOL]

And a lot of people put their winter tires on in September or October,, and take them off in March or April and they end up driving in temperatures above 10C, in some cases 20C or warmer. Rather than change tires back and forth, to try and have the best tire on for the changing conditions, I will just continue to keep top quality all season tires on my vehicles, and continue driving to the conditions, as I have done for the past 36 years. If winter tires become compulsory in more locations, the tire companies will respond by making more all season tires that qualify with the regulations, and I will choose from those tires, so that I don't have to change out tires with the seasons.

So you'd rather drive on a tire that is (at best) average for all conditions. Anyone who knows anything about tires, knows that allseasons are the worst tire you can get for any season. Think about it, how can you create a tire that excels in all conditions. You can't. In fact everything that makes a good summer tire (hard sidewall, lots of contact patch), makes a very bad winter tire, and vice versus.

But I digress, I have decided that my family's safety is more important than the 30 mins in the fall, and 30min in the spring to change tires (And I thought we were the lazy generation)..

At the end of the day, paying attention to road conditions and driving for them is the best defense. Those driving on inadequate tires (bald, summer radials etc) do tend to get their just rewards for their silliness.

This is exactly it.. While I have winter tires on all my vehicles, I don't drive any different, the beauty is, I now have the traction to "get out of the way" when something does happen.

[Arachnodisiac]

Statistics held by the insurance industry and public sector interests both show winter tires - in useable condition and when used in winter conditions - result in fewer accidents and injuries.

A lot of people moaned when seatbelt use became mandatory too, and motorcycle helmet use too.

Definitely an issue of some personal choice, but minimum safety standards are enacted all the time in different facets of life and winter tires will likely be added to that list as time marches on.

And don't forget - in B.C., winter tires are required between October and April 1 in many areas. If you are involved in an accident, and you weren't adhering to local laws, your insurer may deny you coverage. That was one of the reasons why I bit the bullet and just dropped $1400 on tires and rims.

However, after driving home last night in the storm, I assure you that I know I made the right decision.
And after attending a single vehicle rollover yesterday, I bet that driver wishes he had them. Know how much it costs to have a fire department attend your accident scene? We bill at $400/hour for each truck.

That and really, anything you can do to reduce my chances of having to scoop up brain tissue and body parts... well, I know I'd certainly appreciate it.

[elkhunter11]

So you'd rather drive on a tire that is (at best) average for all conditions. Anyone who knows anything about tires, knows that allseasons are the worst tire you can get for any season. Think about it, how can you create a tire that excels in all conditions. You can't. In fact everything that makes a good summer tire (hard sidewall, lots of contact patch), makes a very bad winter tire, and vice versus.

If you had only two seasons winter and summer, you could have the best tire for each season by running winter tires in winter, and summer tires in summer. However, we also have spring and fall, during which you could be driving on dry pavement at 20 degrees one day, in the rain the next day, and on ice or snow a week later. Driving on ice with summer tires is likely the worst possible situation followed by driving at highway speeds on dry pavement at 20 degrees with winter tires. At least with a premium all season tire, you eliminate those extremes. And if you are naive enough to think that all season tires all perform the same, than it is you that doesn't know anything about tires. Have at look at the link below, and it is very obvious that some all season tires are very poor in most if not all conditions, and some do quite well in every category. Of course they won't be as good as a true ice tire on ice , and they won't do as well on a race track as a race tire, but they will do much better than a summer tire on ice, or a winter tire on dry pavement at above freezing temperatures. I am running the Goodyear Triple tread on my vehicles.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=AS

[omega50]

[QUOTE=Arachnodisiac;1692025
That was one of the reasons why I bit the bullet and just dropped $1400 on tires and rims.
[/QUOTE]




$1400!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe that you didn't get some tries and rims at WALMART!!!!

[JB_AOL]

And if you are naive enough to think that all season tires all perform the same,

never said that. I said that allseason tires are, at best, average in all conditions. But I guess you didn't read that part.

If you had only two seasons winter and summer, you could have the best tire for each season by running winter tires in winter, and summer tires in summer. However, we also have spring and fall, during which you could be driving on dry pavement at 20 degrees one day, in the rain the next day, and on ice or snow a week later. Driving on ice with summer tires is likely the worst possible situation followed by driving at highway speeds on dry pavement at 20 degrees with winter tires. At least with a premium all season tire, you eliminate those extremes.

No you don't eliminate those extremes. That's the part you are missing. the extremes are (just that), more extreme, you are now compromising in every condition.<< That's more dangerous. You have an average summer tire, an average rain tire, and an average winter tire.

you do know that you posted the results for an internet survey, right (grain of salt).. Not backed by anything scientific whatsoever.

Like I said, if that's how you view your safety for your family, go right ahead.

BTW.. you aren't really getting the concept. Winter tires are built for extremes, because that's when historically speaking more accidents happen. Just like summer tires should be made to handle rain very good, why? Stay with me, because that's when more accidents happen.

[elkhunter11]

you do know that you posted the results for an internet survey, right (grain of salt).. Not backed by anything scientific whatsoever.

Not backed by anything at all, but people actually driving millions of miles(over 62 million miles for the Triple tread) on those tires and reporting their findings.
If you bother to actually read the reviews, you would see that it involved a great number of people, with a great number of vehicles, living in a great number of different areas.

Of course you could do a scientific study, but then you would likely have to limit it to only a few vehicles, and under a few controlled conditions, and you would have to repeat it periodically as the tires became worn, and the conditions changed.

As for the tires that I am using, I have 80,000 km, on the present set, and ran the set on my other vehicle for nearly 100,000km, so I have a fair bit of experience with them, and I am quite familiar with their capabilities.I don't overdrive them due to being overconfident in them either, as has been reported by multiple posters in this thread. Ultimately, I value my own experience with them, more than any testing, internet or otherwise.

Given my driving record, having driven around 1.5million km without causing an accident, I don't see a problem with my driving, or with the tires that I choose to drive on.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by omega50

$1400!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe that you didn't get some tries and rims at WALMART!!!!

I don't shop at Walmart out of principle. I know, I know... but I'm nothing if not ethically bullheaded.

Tires were $986.18 installed, taxes in, and the rims were $400.

The tires and rims I have bought for my truck in the last 12 months are more than half of what I paid for the truck entirely!

[BlackHeart]

I just wish there was a good 35" load E winter tire that had the lugs to work in deep snow and mud. (needed for hunting conditions now, and ice fishing later).

[JB_AOL]

Not backed by anything at all, but people actually driving millions of miles(over 62 million miles for the Triple tread) on those tires and reporting their findings.
If you bother to actually read the reviews, you would see that it involved a great number of people, with a great number of vehicles, living in a great number of different areas.

Sigh... Your right.. I better go find other surveys so I can base my life off what other random people in other totally random places think, not facts.. Hmm I wonder how much the survey is biased because it's an american made product.. no.. Those americans aren't patriotic at all.

Given my driving record, having driven around 1.5million km without causing an accident, I don't see a problem with my driving, or with the tires that I choose to drive on.

Since your nitpicking.. You haven't caused any accidents, although I'm willing to bet you were in accidents that You could've avoided if you had the right tire..

I just wish there was a good 35" load E winter tire that had the lugs to work in deep snow and mud. (needed for hunting conditions now, and ice fishing later).

Duratrac?

[GlorifiedHabit]

Dont think there is a better snow/ice tire that you can run all year long then the Michellin LTX M/S.
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...s/tire-details

I've got two sets right now one on my Jeep and the other on my 3/4 ton chev.
Great snow and ice traction and you dont need to worry bout the 100 days of winter dry pavement.
A bit soft for the truck so I've been running them in the winter only.
I'd give them a good recommendation

[elkhunter11]

Since your nitpicking.. You haven't caused any accidents, although I'm willing to bet you were in accidents that You could've avoided if you had the right tire..

I was involved in two accidents in my life, both times I was hit from behind while stopped in traffic.In one case a lady simply wasn't paying attention, and in the other case a teenager was looking for a CD, when he hit the truck behind me doing 70 km/hr, which drove the truck into my car. Could you please tell me how the right tire would have helped me avoid those accidents.

I may not be driving the absolute best tire for every condition, but nobody always has the best tire for every condition. My point is that a person that drives within his limits, and the limits of his equipment, and has decent quality tires, can drive safely in winter.
If it was all about having the safest vehicle, many of the vehicles in use today, would not be allowed on our roads.

[JB_AOL]

Dont think there is a better snow/ice tire that you can run all year long then the Michellin LTX M/S.

I hope your joking.. I've got those on my truck and they are scary on a rainy summer day.

I was involved in two accidents in my life, both times I was hit from behind while stopped in traffic. Could you please tell me how the right tire would have helped me avoid those accidents.

That's simply a case of not leaving enough room in front of you (and/or watching what's happening behind you)..

IF (<<keyword here) you would have left enough room ahead of you (and seen the offender coming), the right tires would've given you traction to get out of the way safely. Simple.. It's a case of defensive driving and proper equipment.

But since you are an expert at ~1.5 million Kms.. you should know that.

[elkhunter11]

That's simply a case of not leaving enough room in front of you (and/or watching what's happening behind you)..

IF (<<keyword here) you would have left enough room ahead of you (and seen the offender coming), the right tires would've given you traction to get out of the way safely.

So my vehicle and the truck behind me are totally stopped in traffic, why should I suspect that the truck behind me is suddenly going to accelerate into my car? Perhaps you have a crystal ball that tells you those things, but I don't, and neither do most people. As for seeing the truck that caused the accident coming, the large truck behind me was in between us, blocking my vision, so I couldn't see the other truck coming up behind him.
The truck behind me was hit from behind by a vehicle going an estimated 70km/hr, so by the time that I saw the truck behind me moving, it was too late to react. Perhaps the driver behind me could have left more room, but that is beyond my control, and he obviously didn't expect to be struck hard enough from behind to be driven into my vehicle. I did however leave enough room in front of me, so that my car did not hit the vehicle in front of me.

Perhaps you attribute that accident to be somehow my fault, but the officer that responded obviously didn't, and neither did my insurance company.

But since you are an expert at ~1.5 million Kms.. you should know that.

Just curious, but how many km have you driven in your lifetime, and have you ever been involved in an accident?

[Matt L.]

You sure like to infer a lot of things don't you JB?

[JB_AOL]

Perhaps the driver behind me could have left more room, but that is beyond my control, and he obviously didn't expect to be struck hard enough from behind to be driven into my vehicle. I did however leave enough room in front of me, so that my car did not hit the vehicle in front of me.

Umm .not it's not beyond your control. That exactly what I'm talking about. If you don't feel that he is leaving enough space behind you, move forward.

No you can't predict what people are going to do, that's why you have to be prepared for anything.. Once again.. Go take a defensive driving course.. 9/10 you can prevent the accident, maybe not in your case.

Perhaps you attribute that accident to be somehow my fault, but the officer that responded obviously didn't, and neither did my insurance company.

Nope. never said that. What I'm saying is you can avoid being involved in accidents by having the proper equipment (and training) for the proper conditions.

Just curious, but how many km have you driven in your lifetime, and have you ever been involved in an accident?

~1 million in 16 years.. Yes I have been in 3 accidents (1 self inflicted).. but not in 15 years.

You sure like to infer a lot of things don't you JB?

when people leave out details or can't follow up with facts...yes.. That's what happens..

[silverdoctor]

yeesh. winter tires make a major difference, throw whatever stats you want out there. I had snow tires once in my life previous to coming to Alberta, perelli's on a company vehicle in Nova Scotia, and i'd love to find another set that were that good. What it boils down to for me is safety - what price do I put on my life. $800 for a set of tires is a no brainer.

There are so many factors that can affect ANY tire. If your brakes aren't functioning properly, one or the other is grabbing more - then it'll affect your tires grip on the road. If your alignment isn't 100%, yep, that'll do it too, there are so many things. Car size - I drive a Rio, 2000 pounds on a good day, the ice ridges/roughness in the road are tossing me back and forth.


JB, for you to say that it's good enough to drive with a single tire all year may work for you. Put some studded snows on your vehicle and come back and say there is no difference.

[elkhunter11]

Umm .not it's not beyond your control. That exactly what I'm talking about. If you don't feel that he is leaving enough space behind you, move forward.

Are you for real, if I moved forward because I thought that the vehicle behind me was too close, he would likely just move ahead to maintain the same gap that he left before.After all, he obviously thought that the gap was adequate. Only now, I would have had less gap between myself and the vehicle in front of me, so a third vehicle would have been involved in the accident. You didn't think that through before posting did you?

~1 million in 16 years.. Yes I have been in 3 accidents (1 self inflicted).. but not in 15 years.

So you have less driving experience than me, you have been in more accidents than me, and you have actually caused an accident, which I haven't, and you are telling me how to drive?

[JB_AOL]

JB, for you to say that it's good enough to drive with a single tire all year may work for you. Put some studded snows on your vehicle and come back and say there is no difference.

I'm saying the opposite..I've got 2 sets of tires for 2 vehicles and 4 sets for the other vehicle. I change my tires for conditions. My family's safety is priority.

It's mr (or mrs) Elkhunter that needs a head shake..

Are you for real, if I moved forward because I thought that the vehicle behind me was too close, he would likely just move ahead to maintain the same gap that he left before.After all, he obviously thought that the gap was adequate. Only now, I would have had less gap between myself and the vehicle in front of me, so a third vehicle would have been involved in the accident.

Now wouldn't that mean that you DIDN'T leave enough room in front of you to begin with..

You didn't think that through before posting did you?

You're right. who would've thought there would be a car in front of you when you're stuck in traffic.....

So you have less driving experience than me, you have been in more accidents than me, and you have actually caused an accident, which I haven't, and you are telling me how to drive?

lol.. Define experience.. I have more km/yr than you. Just because your older, oops sorry, "have been driving longer, doesn't mean you are more experienced. Pretty big assumption there..

But I digress, you're clearly a hard headed "stuck in his ways" type of guy..

[elkhunter11]

Now wouldn't that mean that you DIDN'T leave enough room in front of you to begin with..

I could have initially left 100 yards in front of me, but if I keep moving up to establish a larger gap behind me, and vehicle behind me keeps moving up with me to maintain the gap that he thinks is adequate, that gap in front of me will soon be gone.

It's mr (or mrs) Elkhunter that needs a head shake..

How about the people that cause the accidents give their head a shake? That would be you, not me.

Define experience.. I have more km/yr than you. Just because your older, oops sorry, "have been driving longer, doesn't mean you are more experienced. Pretty big assumption there..

You are averaging one accident bout every 300,000km, compared to my record of one accident per 750,000km. You are causing an accident every 1,000,000, km, and I have caused none.

I will let my record speak for itself, as to who is the safer driver.