cf soldiers Can't afford military rent

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

I'm not certain how to reflect upon your comments about meatheads, as it has no bearing or reflection upon me. However, without patting my own back too much I can say that my name was proudly displayed on a plaque just as you entered the Commandants office at CFB Wainwright Battle School because of outstanding performance in a CLC course that I completed with the Pats. Unfortunately, the majority of Combat Arms members who I trained with in that course failed the most important components of that course (Infantry Tactics) and 1/3 did not pass the course. Moreover, the Commanding Officer of the 3PPCLI attempted to have me accelerated two ranks due to my dedication and outstanding performance. Thus, whatever you are referring to in your opening statement about Military Police and PERI staff being those that failed, I find difficult to believe unless it was a very very long time ago?

What year did you serve in? what trade? and what where your accomplishments?

Today it is the high school drop outs and those that have completed only high
school that go into the Infantry 031, because no post secondary education is required to enter, unless this has changed. However to be accepted into the Military Police and some other trades Post Secondary Education is preferred or required.

And by the way, the Commandant I'm referring to at the time during my training at the Combat School was not Former CFB Wainwright commander Major David Yurczyszyn who was charged with offences related to sexual assault, disgraceful conduct and drunkenness in March of 2013.

30Cal, no intention or directed comments to you at all, just pointed out what was a MP/Peri staff 70's early 80's but now are actually a much higher standard to get into. CLC course is a bag drive and failure rates need to be high because only adequate soldiers should be put in leadership roles, congrats on topping the course...I was also poking fun at the meatheads as we always do, it was allowed back then but maybe not now, good times!

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by recce43

ya red card in basic if a recruit pulled that on me i shove it where the sun does not shine...

Seems to me that when basic training was moved from cornwallis the forces changed for the worse. I still chuckle a little bit about during inspection when the Ms/mcpl would boot the bottom shelf of your locker to the top shelf. Scared me then but twenty years later it is funny as hell. Probably don't even get in your face anymore and call you dog nuts. The new compassionate forces aren't very much fun anymore and I'm glad I got out before it really changed.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Seems to me that when basic training was moved from cornwallis the forces changed for the worse. I still chuckle a little bit about during inspection when the Ms/mcpl would boot the bottom shelf of your locker to the top shelf. Scared me then but twenty years later it is funny as hell. Probably don't even get in your face anymore and call you dog nuts. The new compassionate forces aren't very much fun anymore and I'm glad I got out before it really changed.

ya that sucked though cause you had fold everthing all neat again. and then your bed get tossed down the barracks floor

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by recce43

ya that sucked though cause you had fold everthing all neat again. and then your bed get tossed down the barracks floor

Lmfao. Those where good times. As much as I hated those guys at the time they where good guys at the bar. Had lots of good laughs when I met up with them again in the fleet.

[ctd]

How about beds and lockers tossed out the second story window in a windstorm.
And the kit name check were everyone's kit was dumped in middle of the floor and had to collect only kit with your name on it.

Do the trench here. Finish tench. Fill it in and move it over that way 6 inches.

[recce43]

lol ya the invisble chair when you are up against the wall ina sitting position but no chair and rifle streched out in front of you... I held the record for that one 43 mins as mcpl s ate kfc in front of me

[norwestalta]

Halifax airport drinking with the newfies, went for a whiz and big guy with a scar across his face asked if I was a recruit? I said yep. He said don't effing yep me. I said yes sir. Then the dung hit the fan. At 18 I thought Wtf am I doing here and what have I got myself into. Lol. In hindsight they were the best days of my life. Wouldn't trade that experience for anything.

[58thecat]

Yep I remember getting told to open a window just to have the Mcpl in a rant forget which window I opened take my highly polished boot and throw it through a closed window...freakin almost died laughing (after he left) glass all over the place and I got extra's out of it as it was my fault...builds tolerance!

[skidderman]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Who reported on that? He's been ordered not to talk to the media and I'm not sure how anyone could determine what his debt is right now without talking to him personally. Perhaps there's a way to obtain someone's personal info that I don't know about.

There was a full report on Byline. I thinks its by the Sun on TV. It to me a good balanced report. Not sure what channel but I watch it quite a bit. They talked about pay levels and the fact that it was reported the young guy was in debt.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by skidderman

There was a full report on Byline. I thinks its by the Sun on TV. It to me a good balanced report. Not sure what channel but I watch it quite a bit. They talked about pay levels and the fact that it was reported the young guy was in debt.

Who isn't in debt? Sure your not going to get rich there but it is a alright living. Probably more so than a civie job out east. I got paid enough that I could go to the bar most every night. My problem was a dead beat wife at the time that I met at the bar and we know how those things turn out.

[sullijr]

Our family moved into 10 Maple Cresent at Namao in 1951or2 when it first opened it was a story and a half painted yellow and white.Some who lives out there could drive by and see if anything has changed That will give the non -believers some insight as to the slum landlord attitude of the GOV't.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by sullijr

Our family moved into 10 Maple Cresent at Namao in 1951or2 when it first opened it was a story and a half painted yellow and white.Some who lives out there could drive by and see if anything has changed That will give the non -believers some insight as to the slum landlord attitude of the GOV't.

I was in Griesbach last night picking something up. You wouldn't recognize the pmq's. They've all been refurbished and the neighbourhood is very nice. I found the change amazing. I never bothered to look to see if my old barracks and kitchen was still there though....lol!

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Alright, we got not having the ability to grieve a sentence out of the way.....I think.

Now, I don't know where you got the idea that most Officers are not trained or have very little insight into the administration of Military law, but that simply isn't true, they do. Otherwise, they would not be able to conduct a Summary Trial unqualified. I only ran into it once when our OC was away and a Captain was Acting OC and it had to be determined that he was qualified to conduct a Summary Trial, which he was. I suspect that he was qualified by virtue of certain courses that he had attended in order to become a Major.

Similarly, as an NCO, I was required to train in the investigative procedures, in filling out Charge Reports, conducting a Summary Trial, etc at my level. In fact, it was one of the Performance Objectives on my Senior Leadership Course and covered in detail on my 6B course. It's not something that you learn on your own or through OJT.

All of the information about Summary Trials is in QR&O's and it is very detailed and relatively easy. What is written in QR&O's has been vetted by lawyers in order to ensure that everything is in accordance to Human Rights and everything else that you previously mentioned. What you don't see and hear that happens behind closed doors are CSM's discussing the case with the AJAG Office and relying that information to the Presiding Officer in order to determine if the charge is valid. I have had to reword one or two Charge Reports but I have never been told that the charge was invalid.

I'm fairly certain that there might be a little guidance from the higher echelon to the Presiding Officer as well for cases that are not routine or the punishment could potentially be quite severe. There is a lot of preparation that goes on behind the scenes that you will never know anything about. You seem to be under the impression that the chain of command flies by the seat of their pants when people's livelihood is on the line.

I believe I stated “many officers” not “most officers” are not trained or have very little insight into the administration of law & justice. By this I’m not referring to military law only, because an understanding of Constitutional Law and case precedence would be necessary for NCO or Officer to exact proper justice. Simply put, they are not lawyers and for this reason they often consult or confer with the JAG in legal matters. Yet, what they seem to forget is that when a person joins the CAF they do not give up their Constitutional Right to be subject to military law alone. I’m not the only one who has observed this lack of training or understanding of legal issues within the CAF from personal experiences. This can also be seen in the writings or studies that were done by legal agencies that have recognized that the NDA needed to be amended to line up with the Constitution. I can provide references if you would like.

In respect to Summary Trails, it’s a cat & mouse game. Often standing in as a witness to these types of trails I observed young soldiers oblivious to their rights, accepting whatever punishment that was handed out. They would opt for a summary trail accepting they were caught for some disciplinary infraction, and were willing to do the punishment as part of the brotherhood.

Just by reading your postings/comments I already assumed that you were a NCO possible involved in the aforementioned types of Summary Trails. However, you have now confirmed it.

With no disrespect to your comments as to what you believed will be the disposition of the subject Cpl; those comments are an example of what I’m talking about.
“Will he get charged.....Yup (IMO).”
“If charged will he be found guilty....Yup.”
“Can he do anything about it after the punishment is awarded....Nope.”
“Will he feel like an idiot....I would hope so”

Although the aforementioned is what might happen to him; in accordance with our present day laws and with reforms to the NDA is it the equal justice this Cpl should be receiving?

So how did this Cpl bring discredit to the CAF? If anything the CAF will bring discredit to itself if it tries to punish him for something he has the right to do. By punishing him the CF will be showing that it is not respecting his Constitutional Rights and will be sending a message that soldiers do not have the same rights as you or I in expressing their feelings or opinions, or taking action to try and resolve their problems, simply because they have joined the CAF.

In fact, this Cpl has done the CAF a favour because now the public can see that soldiers are being paid fairly and that the issues this Cpl is having with PMQ, although of some concerns, is not necessarily the motivating factor why he’s looking for assistance. This Cpl alone does not represent the CAF just because he is employed by it. If anything the CAF are now aware of his problems and should be looking at educating him in the proper handling of his finances. The CAF should be seizing this opportunity to show that they are concerned, and that they welcome the public view.

The CAF is supposed to be about “Peace Keeping” not punishment; it is about defending the rights of all Canadians and upholding the laws constituted by our Government. It is not a perfect organization, as it has both good and bad guys (criminals) within its community. Trying to punish members every time they bring the CAF into the spotlight makes me suspicious that they are trying to hide something. And trying to present themselves to the public as a perfect organization is a lie, and by doing so they discredit themselves.

I understand the need for discipline within the CAF. Thus, this is the reason they are struggling to find a balance between the rights of its members in respect to the Constitution, while at the same time functioning as a disciplined organized structure.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Seems to me that when basic training was moved from cornwallis the forces changed for the worse. I still chuckle a little bit about during inspection when the Ms/mcpl would boot the bottom shelf of your locker to the top shelf. Scared me then but twenty years later it is funny as hell. Probably don't even get in your face anymore and call you dog nuts. The new compassionate forces aren't very much fun anymore and I'm glad I got out before it really changed.

I went from Cornwallis to St Jean for language school.
The difference between the French Recruit experience and what we went through was night and day.

It was apparent very early in my career that the rule about there being only one standard in the CF...was only written in English.

When Cornwallis was closed... they simply adopted the standard that already existed in St Jean and the differenec was immediatly apparent when the FNG's started to show up at schools and eventually units.

Now its just par for the course... basically if you joined after about 1990... you don't know the difference or refuse to acknowledge that there is one.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

I went from Cornwallis to St Jean for language school.
The difference between the French Recruit experience and what we went through was night and day.

It was apparent very early in my career that the rule about there being only one standard in the CF...was only written in English.

When Cornwallis was closed... they simply adopted the standard that already existed in St Jean and the differenec was immediatly apparent when the FNG's started to show up at schools and eventually units.

Now its just par for the course... basically if you joined after about 1990... you don't know the difference or refuse to acknowledge that there is one.

That explains so much.

I was in St Jean in '61. I didn't go to the School of Hinglish, but I rememebr a few who did,

[HunterDave]

Have you ever been in a "low stress" platoon.....lol. It sounds funny but I was on course in Borden back in the '90's and they did a trial with one at the school. The first time that I saw them forming up I asked what the hell is that! Head shaking stuff but a little funny in a weird way. I figure that the busking Cpl may have been on one of those.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

That explains so much.

I was in St Jean in '61. I didn't go to the School of Hinglish, but I rememebr a few who did,

Sorry Buddy but when we showed up fresh from the hole... the diference in standards was very obvious.

We polished floors...they didn't.
We polished boots.... then taught them how.
We ran in fighting order and they ran in sneakers on an engineered track.
We had buzz cuts....they had sideburns and mustaches.
We saluted the flag...they drove through base burning one.

It was completely different.

I would imagine that in 61.... things might have been a tad more similar.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Have you ever been in a "low stress" platoon.....lol. It sounds funny but I was on course in Borden back in the '90's and they did a trial with one at the school. The first time that I saw them forming up I asked what the hell is that! Head shaking stuff but a little funny in a weird way. I figure that the busking Cpl may have been on one of those.

I remember when those guys showed up in the SSF....lol

The CSM asked one what rock he crawled out from under by way of introduction to the unit and the kid tried pulling his card.

I thought the CSM was going to have a stroke.
When the boob started to cry I thought he might drop him.
MWO Dave Mack... he probably would have if there hadn't been a couple hundred witnesses..... that guy was hard.

Actually it was great having a guy like that around.
Kept my weekends free from duties.

[Redfrog]

So BDB, you went to the school of English or you didn't?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So BDB, you went to the school of English or you didn't?

I went to Cornwallis for basic then to St Jean for language training.
We were housed alonside the Franco recruits in the same building there... "the Mega".

Now...Je parle la ding dong as bonne as any homme.

[HunterDave]

"Capt. Sandy Bourne, public affairs officer for 4 Wing Cold Lake said an investigation is underway into the public protest against a rent increase to the base's Residential House Units (RHU) earlier this month.

"In this particular case the chain of command is conducting an investigation to determine all of the facts in order to make an informed decision as to whether or not any disciplinary action will be taken," she said."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews...18-174245.html

[Nester]

Cornwallis.