Ali#1, you were right about Arizona. - Page 14

ali#1 · #**391** 03-02-2014, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwm1273

That's a two way street.

Not really we the non believers have listen to your rules for centuries, witch burning, the crusades, the inquisitions etc. I just want to be left alone.

rwm1273 · #**392** 03-02-2014, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Not really we the non believes have listen to your rules for centuries, with burning the crusades the inquisitions etc. I just want to be left alone.

Then stop insulting those who believe differently than you.

ali#1 · #**393** 03-02-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Then stop insulting those who believe differently than you.

Stop writing rules for me to live by.

rwm1273 · #**394** 03-02-2014, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Stop writing rules for me to live by.

I'm not. I just don't expect to have to be forced to serve those who oppose my religious ideals, since I have rights too.

canadiantdi · #**395** 03-02-2014, 07:54 PM

What are you guys even talking about?

Are you guys gonna set up a meeting at the monkey bars or what?

30Cal · #**396** 03-02-2014, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

ambiguity is your enemy.

Do you know what I meant by sounds familiar or did you assume that you know what I'm thinking?

I don't see ambiguity as an enemy, more a part of our design. Variables allow us to explore.

ali#1 · #**397** 03-02-2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

What are you guys even talking about?

Are you guys gonna set up a meeting at the monkey bars or what?

I have lost the meaning years ago but it's nice to see people can have a somewhat civil discussion over a very touchy subject without a lock.

canadiantdi · #**398** 03-02-2014, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

I have lost the meaning years ago but it's nice to see people can have a somewhat civil discussion over a very touchy subject without a lock.

With the bickering, a lock is sure to follow..

ali#1 · #**399** 03-02-2014, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I'm not. I just don't expect to have to be forced to serve those who oppose my religious ideals, since I have rights too.

Tell me about all the rules you have to live by forced by non believers like myself.

Il start on my side - no hunting on Sunday. Since I don't belive In a sabbath why should I be limited to what days I can or cannot hunt because of your beliefs ?.

ali#1 · #**400** 03-02-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

With the bickering, a lock is sure to follow..

Who knows. I have tried to keep it civil.

canadiantdi · #**401** 03-02-2014, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Tell me about all the rules you have to live by forced by non believers like myself.

Il start on my side - no hunting on Sunday. Since I don't belive In a sabbath why should I be limited to what days I can or cannot hunt because of your beliefs ?.

Isn't that just part of being a democracy though? Times are changing and are sure to swing in your favour.. as you've pointed out, non-believers are multiplying! They're mating!

Mistagin · #**402** 03-02-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't most of the eye witnesses to Jesus death and revival and trip to heaven women ?

Uh, no! Women were present, absolutely. But so were lots of men.
At His death there were Jewish religious leaders and their Temple guards, Roman soldiers and officers, lots of people who watched the spectacle, and a good number of Jesus' followers - both male and female.

Both men and women saw Him after His resurrection, and at least the core group of His disciples witnessed His ascension to heaven.

And in response to another one of your questions, Yes, I - as do many 'brothers / sisters' in the faith on this very forum, believe without a doubt that He is alive and well and in the place we call heaven.

A question Ali, why would you not believe women who reported what they saw? Is it just because they were women?

Another one: why would you not believe the accounts of all those people canadiantdi and rmw1273 (and others) have referred you to? If you don't think they are credible you need to have a very good reason why!

You say Jesus never existed, demanded proof, and it seems the 'proof you demanded has been given and now you are grasping at straws as your argument in this discussion crumbles.

You like to refer to Hitchens; who is he? And what makes him and his opinions so authoritative? (Yeah I really do know) - He's was just an atheist with an opinion! It's crass to say so, but he's dead, and I don't think anyone will remember him a generation or two from now. Jesus, however, has been considered the most influential person to have ever lived (google it!). How can that be if He never existed?

How could a person like Jesus, whom you deny, have inspired the greatest religious movement in history? (I already asked that one, but you sidestepped it.)

You've also said, "the largest growing number of the population is non believers." I notice you didn't say 'atheists'. And actually you ought to research that a little bit more, 'cause it isn't true on a world-wide scale.

covey ridge · #**403** 03-02-2014, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

We are all atheists I just believe in one less god than you do.

ali#1 · #**404** 03-02-2014, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Isn't that just part of being a democracy though? Times are changing and are sure to swing in your favour.. as you've pointed out, non-believers are multiplying! They're mating!

That's a minor one but it hits close to home.

What you are getting now is a pushback to the things the religious hae push upon society, some of it I don't agree with myself but it's not a persecution of religion.

ali#1 · #**405** 03-02-2014, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Do you believe in Allah ?

rwm1273 · #**406** 03-02-2014, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Tell me about all the rules you have to live by forced by non believers like myself.

Il start on my side - no hunting on Sunday. Since I don't belive In a sabbath why should I be limited to what days I can or cannot hunt because of your beliefs ?.

That rule prevented me from hunting on Sundays too. I now hunt as often as I can and most of those days are Sundays.

My issue goes back to the issue of this thread. That being does a person have a right to not provide services to people which would violate their religious rights.

The two most interesting arguments on the subject are the case of the baker and the case of the barber. One was a Christian, the other a Muslim. Both were in a bind due to their religious convictions. One was taken to court and forced to bake a cake for a gay marriage, and the other was taken to a tribunal because he was forbidden to cut the hair of a woman, and luckily for him, there was a resolution, but I suspect that was due more to the complainant willing to accept a solution.

Now if this bill had passed and not been veto'd, then neither the baker nor the barber would have been faced with court and unnecessary expenses to defend their religious rights.

covey ridge · #**407** 03-02-2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

just leave me out of your beliefs and we will get along fine.

but you will not extend that courtesy to others?

ali#1 · #**408** 03-02-2014, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Uh, no! Women were present, absolutely. But so were lots of men.
At His death there were Jewish religious leaders and their Temple guards, Roman soldiers and officers, lots of people who watched the spectacle, and a good number of Jesus' followers - both male and female.

Both men and women saw Him after His resurrection, and at least the core group of His disciples witnessed His ascension to heaven.

And in response to another one of your questions, Yes, I - as do many 'brothers / sisters' in the faith on this very forum, believe without a doubt that He is alive and well and in the place we call heaven.

A question Ali, why would you not believe women who reported what they saw? Is it just because they were women?

Another one: why would you not believe the accounts of all those people canadiantdi and rmw1273 (and others) have referred you to? If you don't think they are credible you need to have a very good reason why!

You say Jesus never existed, demanded proof, and it seems the 'proof you demanded has been given and now you are grasping at straws as your argument in this discussion crumbles.

You like to refer to Hitchens; who is he? And what makes him and his opinions so authoritative? (Yeah I really do know) - He's was just an atheist with an opinion! It's crass to say so, but he's dead, and I don't think anyone will remember him a generation or two from now. Jesus, however, has been considered the most influential person to have ever lived (google it!). How can that be if He never existed?

How could a person like Jesus, whom you deny, have inspired the greatest religious movement in history? (I already asked that one, but you sidestepped it.)

You've also said, "the largest growing number of the population is non believers." I notice you didn't say 'atheists'. And actually you ought to research that a little bit more, 'cause it isn't true on a world-wide scale.

None of this babble proves Jesus is god though.

To have faith is the suspend reason believe the unbelievable. You can have a majority all you want but logic dictates that my
Position is closer to the truth than you. I don't need to believe anything that's not believable to form my opinion.

ali#1 · #**409** 03-02-2014, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covey ridge

but you will not extend that courtesy to others?

Tell me about the last athiest to burn someone at the steak ?.

rwm1273 · #**410** 03-02-2014, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

None of this babble proves Jesus is god though.

To have faith is the suspend reason believe the unbelievable. You can have a majority all you want but logic dictates that my
Position is closer to the truth than you. I don't need to believably thing that's not believable to form my opinion.

There you go again changing the terms of your argument. First you say he didn't exist, and we prove he did, but now your argument hinges on faith that he is god.

Well what is your argument? Is it that he didn't exist, or that he isn't god? Because one is an issue of faith, the other is more an issue of fact.

For some, they are the same, but that is not the question I am asking.

canadiantdi · #**411** 03-02-2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

None of this babble proves Jesus is god though.

To have faith is the suspend reason believe the unbelievable. You can have a majority all you want but logic dictates that my
Position is closer to the truth than you. I don't need to believe anything that's not believable to form my opinion.

Faith is just putting complete trust in something or someone. We all need different levels of "proof" to have faith, I suppose.

We are definitely living in the "pics or it didn't happen" age.

covey ridge · #**412** 03-02-2014, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

I just want to be left alone.

If you really want to be left alone the ball is in your court and you are free to go any time you wish. Like I said before, you are giving atheists a bad name.
Don't expect everyone to keep quiet with all your dribble.

ali#1 · #**413** 03-02-2014, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwm1273

There you go again changing the terms of your argument. First you say he didn't exist, and we prove he did, but now your argument hinges on faith that he is god.

Well what is your argument? Is it that he didn't exist, or that he isn't god? Because one is an issue of faith, the other is more an issue of fact.

For some, they are the same, but that is not the question I am asking.

You proved he existed tell me how you did that ? You have a time machine that none of the rest of us know about ?

30Cal · #**414** 03-02-2014, 08:26 PM

So Ali#1, what exactly do you believe in? Please give me the details.
Any religious beliefs? Social? ....etc.

ali#1 · #**415** 03-02-2014, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covey ridge

If you really want to be left alone the ball is in your court and you are free to go any time you wish. Like I said before, you are giving atheists a bad name.
Don't expect everyone to keep quiet with all your dribble.

Do I need your permission for something ?

connexion123 · #**416** 03-02-2014, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covey ridge

but you will not extend that courtesy to others?

Of course he won't. He makes as if he somehow has the moral high ground but he and the others rabidly tripping balls on anyone who doesn't agree with them, are the MOST intolerant of all.

He has no interest in extending you that courtesy because he and others like him have such a vehment hate towards any religion, but it is funny because they then call it fake and a fairy tale.

Christians are completely persecuted around the globe, and many killed. Priests thrown from 5 story buildings. People burned alive, beaten, etc. And all for a "fairy tale"?

Why would ali be mad because I believe in a fairy tale?

Hmmmm.

Look, he's a bigot like no other as are the rest of people spewing hate over religious belief of others.

I never understood why athiests got so mad over nothing. Pretty unstable that ali

ali#1 · #**417** 03-02-2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30Cal

So Ali#1, what exactly do you believe in? Please give me the details.

I believe In evolution. Do I have all the answers ? No but that's better than just making up a story to fill in the parts we don't know.

Donkey Oatey · #**418** 03-02-2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Faith is just putting complete trust in something or someone. We all need different levels of "proof" to have faith, I suppose.

We are definitely living in the "pics or it didn't happen" age.

“What I have a problem with is not so much religion or god, but faith. When you say you believe something in your heart and therefore you can act on it, you have completely justified the 9/11 bombers. You have justified Charlie Manson. If it's true for you, why isn't it true for them? Why are you different? If you say "I believe there's an all-powerful force of love in the universe that connects us all, and I have no evidence of that but I believe it in my heart," then it's perfectly okay to believe in your heart that Sharon Tate deserves to die. It's perfectly okay to believe in your heart that you need to fly planes into buildings for Allah.”
― Penn Jillette

connexion123 · #**419** 03-02-2014, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

Do I need your permission for something ?

Do I need yours?

connexion123 · #**420** 03-02-2014, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali#1

I believe In evolution. Do I have all the answers ? No but that's better than just making up a story to fill in the parts we don't know.

Evolution was made up by darwin. So how is it different?