alberta beef producers proposing pay to play

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by expmler

You forget supply and demand. If Canadian farmers hold their products out of the market that causes a shortage in supply making the price rise.

Just like when they get a frost in Florida and they lose their orange crop, price of orange juice goes up.

Thats a great Idea you could create a pool of some sort and all get together and set prices and .... oh wait a minute that's already been tried

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Thats right and a highly competative one as well.

I'll sit back and wait for you and your neighbours to compete while actively lobbying to kill all subsidies related to wildlife damage since you and your friends now have a business solution to your problem.

When you are up to your belt buckle in gophers and over-run with deer again... it'll be a hunters market and I'm sure that we will all be able to find the price point and the conditions that we both find agreeable.
Its not like there are only a handful of farms out there... there are thousands of em and at some point some of those farmers will no doubt see an opportunity to benefit at their neighbours expense to the point that they can start buying up land when their smaller neighbours start to fold.

Yup....if I was a big land holder and could tolerate a marginal loss for a bit...I'd watch for those deals.
Maybe just allow hunting on portions of my land leaving the animals that border the neghbours place.... unmolested or better yet designed to drive them there.

Those that do not find private land to hunt on will do what they do now but they will also will from surplus animals migrating to those Crown areas.

In the mean time I am sure that hunt farms and caged hunts will blossom shortly since paid access is about the only barrier now and while that might be a tad more pricey... it will be a sure thing and lets face it.... the royal treatment.

Of course all of that will be a fast track to the death of the family farm and almost guarantee that privatley owned operations here hold such a small portion of the market that they cease to matter globally but thats OK as long as you get what you want for the immediate future.

You should really think about rubbing the dollar signs out of your eyes and considering that business is a reciprocal arrangement.... both parties will be looking towards what is good for them and what that means is that unlike now... you will be forced to forfeit some of the perogative you have now because nobody is going to give you money for nothing.

It will be a money in exchange for assurances that you are not contracted to agree to now. If you believe otherwise I'm afraid that you are going to be very disappointed.

Its odd I think that farmers have survived so much over the history of this province yet now...suddenly wildlife is breaking their back.
Odd.... how a well run farm could manage through the worst of times and do just fine without that extra access income but suddenly cannot.

Oh well what do I know?

I'm sure that you folks have it all figured out and that the big money guys behind this are acting in everyones best interest. There is no way that any of them would advocate such a grand and fundimental change if there was any chance at all that some of their neighbours might end up under the bus.

If this is the first step in making it legal for me to outfit on my land, I am for it more than ever.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by expmler

It says the same. So are you in favor of farmers getting the law changed.

As a landowner/hunter I'm not but I'd like to see the trespass laws changed.
A quota might be more favourable to me.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by expmler

It says the same. So are you in favor of farmers getting the law changed.

No...lol, that's a whole lotta words you stuck in my mouth there

Paid hunting shuts out opportunity for hunters, and I don't support anything that lessons opportunity.

LC

[expmler]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Thats a great Idea you could create a pool of some sort and all get together and set prices and .... oh wait a minute that's already been tried

The Wheat Pool did not set the price, the just forced you to sell to them only. Then the deducted freight off of your check. So if I lived 5 miles from a flour mill I could not deliver my wheat directly to the mill. I had to deliver it to the wheat board and they took freight charges off of my check for what it would cost to deliver it to thunder bay.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Thats right and a highly competative one as well.

I'll sit back and wait for you and your neighbours to compete while actively lobbying to kill all subsidies related to wildlife damage since you and your friends now have a business solution to your problem.

When you are up to your belt buckle in gophers and over-run with deer again... it'll be a hunters market and I'm sure that we will all be able to find the price point and the conditions that we both find agreeable.
Its not like there are only a handful of farms out there... there are thousands of em and at some point some of those farmers will no doubt see an opportunity to benefit at their neighbours expense to the point that they can start buying up land when their smaller neighbours start to fold.

Yup....if I was a big land holder and could tolerate a marginal loss for a bit...I'd watch for those deals.
Maybe just allow hunting on portions of my land leaving the animals that border the neghbours place.... unmolested or better yet designed to drive them there.

Those that do not find private land to hunt on will do what they do now but they will also will from surplus animals migrating to those Crown areas.

In the mean time I am sure that hunt farms and caged hunts will blossom shortly since paid access is about the only barrier now and while that might be a tad more pricey... it will be a sure thing and lets face it.... the royal treatment.

Of course all of that will be a fast track to the death of the family farm and almost guarantee that privatley owned operations here hold such a small portion of the market that they cease to matter globally but thats OK as long as you get what you want for the immediate future.

You should really think about rubbing the dollar signs out of your eyes and considering that business is a reciprocal arrangement.... both parties will be looking towards what is good for them and what that means is that unlike now... you will be forced to forfeit some of the perogative you have now because nobody is going to give you money for nothing.

It will be a money in exchange for assurances that you are not contracted to agree to now. If you believe otherwise I'm afraid that you are going to be very disappointed.

Its odd I think that farmers have survived so much over the history of this province yet now...suddenly wildlife is breaking their back.
Odd.... how a well run farm could manage through the worst of times and do just fine without that extra access income but suddenly cannot.

Oh well what do I know?

I'm sure that you folks have it all figured out and that the big money guys behind this are acting in everyones best interest. There is no way that any of them would advocate such a grand and fundimental change if there was any chance at all that some of their neighbours might end up under the bus.

I think you are on to something here Big daddy . Seems the ones pushing the most for some of these changes are the big operation farms. Could it be that they see an opportunity to squeeze out the little guy and get a larger slice of the pie for themselves . to paraphrase an earlier post ,is their selfishness showing through?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

No...lol, that's a whole lotta words you stuck in my mouth there

Paid hunting shuts out opportunity for hunters, and I don't support anything that lessons opportunity.

LC

Only hunters who don't want to pay, just like the snowmobilers etc you listed.
Hunting opportunity is not a right, the gov't can shut it down anytime.
You changed it to paid hunting, we are talking paid access.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I think you are on to something here Big daddy . Seems the ones pushing the most for some of these changes are the big operation farms. Could it be that they see an opportunity to squeeze out the little guy and get a larger slice of the pie for themselves . to paraphrase an earlier post ,is their selfishness showing through?

Free market is based on selfishness.

[bison]

Originally Posted by expmler

It says the same. So are you in favor of farmers getting the law changed.

If this tread is an indication they'll lump it in the same favor category as the gun registry was

[Y2K]

What is happening to the Elk in South Alberta?
any solution from Govt yet?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by expmler

Only hunters who don't want to pay, just like the snowmobilers etc you listed.
Hunting opportunity is not a right, the gov't can shut it down anytime.
You changed it to paid hunting, we are talking paid access.

I never mentioned snowmobiles? I never changed anything? So don't put words in my mouth....

You have me confused with someone else...

LC

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I never mentioned snowmobiles? I never changed anything? So don't put words in my mouth....

You have me confused with someone else...

LC

You are right, didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

Sorry, my mistake.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by expmler

My reasoning is based on selfishness.

About time you came to your senses!!!!!

[crownb]

Originally Posted by expmler

The Wheat Pool did not set the price, the just forced you to sell to them only. Then the deducted freight off of your check. So if I lived 5 miles from a flour mill I could not deliver my wheat directly to the mill. I had to deliver it to the wheat board and they took freight charges off of my check for what it would cost to deliver it to thunder bay.

Exactly FORCED is the key word, name another business where you are forced to sell the product you make to a specific company?

[bison]

Originally Posted by Gust

Yeah but we were talking about fencing it, are you allowed to fence crown land and what's tax on the lease?

Also wildlife damage is covered by fishing licences too, I was unaware that our fish cause such a great loss to farmers? Can anyone explain this to me? I did use a bee pattern with little success, are fish stealing bee's and other bugs critical to the operation of a cattle ranch?

If you're a hunter i hope you're not that ignorant.

As for taxes i don't know,.i don't lease.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by expmler

You are right, didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

Sorry, my mistake.

It's all good

LC

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by expmler

If this is the first step in making it legal for me to outfit on my land, I am for it more than ever.

Finally your true color coming through!! You just want you own game farm. Get a law changed under the guise of covering costs, then you will need the baiting law changed yo keep your income alive. Then you can build those high fences to trap them for good.
The government will love your idea end any subsidies. Get more money from tags, and tax you little project to death!!

Your the opposite of an outdoorsman. Your an opportunist, selling a resource that's not yours, I hope you screw up your own province first so Alberta can see how sad people like you are

[bison]

Originally Posted by expmler

The Wheat Pool did not set the price, the just forced you to sell to them only. Then the deducted freight off of your check. So if I lived 5 miles from a flour mill I could not deliver my wheat directly to the mill. I had to deliver it to the wheat board and they took freight charges off of my check for what it would cost to deliver it to thunder bay.

Most people have no clue that a farmer buys retail sells wholesale and pays the freight both ways.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by expmler

If this is the first step in making it legal for me to outfit on my land, I am for it more than ever.

His true motive is finally exposed. It's not about recovering crop damage after all.

[Y2K]

Originally Posted by bison

Most people have no clue that a farmer buys retail sells wholesale and pays the freight both ways.

Most people think their food comes from Safeway.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

I don't think some people understand the concept of whose wild animals these are. Some of the comments are plain ignorant of how this country works and why it works the way it does.

As for business works. If you can't take the heat, fold up and sell it. Land prices are high and you will do well.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Y2K

What is happening to the Elk in South Alberta?
any solution from Govt yet?

Why would anyone want to discuss this gateway to paid hunting ?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Finally your true color coming through!! You just want you own game farm. Get a law changed under the guise of covering costs, then you will need the baiting law changed yo keep your income alive. Then you can build those high fences to trap them for good.
The government will love your idea end any subsidies. Get more money from tags, and tax you little project to death!!

Your the opposite of an outdoorsman. Your an opportunist, selling a resource that's not yours, I hope you screw up your own province first so Alberta can see how sad people like you are

I wouldn't have to change anything. Right now I have hunters on my land from Sept 1st to Dec 31st.

I can provide food, lodging, game care, guiding etc for those 4 months as well as continue to farm as I do now.

I would not be selling the resource, just my services. Many farmers have off farm jobs to supplement their income, this would be no different.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I don't think some people understand the concept of whose wild animals these are. Some of the comments are plain ignorant of how this country works and why it works the way it does.

As for business works. If you can't take the heat, fold up and sell it. Land prices are high and you will do well.

This comment rubs me the wrong way, these animals are the crowns animals, the crowns animals are causing loss, I am supposed to fold up a family farm that has been around for over 90 years because we have had some warm favourable winters and the game populations have exploded.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by expmler

If this is the first step in making it legal for me to outfit on my land, I am for it more than ever.

You have no idea what is involved in your dream.. Have you looked into the liability insurance of inviting and charging access for said species ? You are looking at a commercial policy which involves weapons, not many providers for this and the costs will hurt the wallet.

Not to mention, how can you ensure quality of the species to entice the deep pockets in our passion ? You can't unless you go complete game farming which again is HUGE dollars and only attracts a very small percent.

Charging for access is a terrible idea period, will limit our future generations and create a monopoly for only the elite group.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I don't think some people understand the concept of whose wild animals these are. Some of the comments are plain ignorant of how this country works and why it works the way it does.

As for business works. If you can't take the heat, fold up and sell it. Land prices are high and you will do well.

Land prices are good in some places but selling a farm doesn't mean the farm is gone, somebody else will still take over, the problem is still there.

[Y2K]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Why would anyone want to discuss this gateway to paid hunting ?

Because some on here own land in affected area.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

You have no idea what is involved in your dream.. Have you looked into the liability insurance of inviting and charging access for said species ? You are looking at a commercial policy which involves weapons, not many providers for this and the costs will hurt the wallet.

Not to mention, how can you ensure quality of the species to entice the deep pockets in our passion ? You can't unless you go complete game farming which again is HUGE dollars and only attracts a very small percent.

Charging for access is a terrible idea period, will limit our future generations and create a monopoly for only the elite group.

Well said....some folks can't see past the dollar signs.

LC

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Y2K

Because some on here own land in affected area.

Y2K, look back at my posts regarding the CFB fiasco, I was tongue and cheek as no one wants to discuss this particular gateway for paid hunting

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I don't think some people understand the concept of whose wild animals these are. Some of the comments are plain ignorant of how this country works and why it works the way it does.

As for business works. If you can't take the heat, fold up and sell it. Land prices are high and you will do well.

I don't claim to own the wildlife, only the land they and you want to walk on. How about instead of selling it I rent it out to hunters.