Illegal introduction of carp in Alberta! THE START OF A DISASTER?

[fish gunner]

none at tollman bridge. in two trips with four anglers. alberta regs limit carp targeting methods. we were not targeting carp at the time but I will in future outings. will see if local sources have any info.

[Sundancefisher]

I wonder how many other creeks they are in.

Are Threehill, Kneehills, Serviceberry all tributaries of Rosebud Creek.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I wonder how many other creeks they are in.

Are Threehill, Kneehills, Serviceberry all tributaries of Rosebud Creek.

Im not saying you shouldn't at all be concerned, but is it possible conditions are not ideal for this fish and there is little worry from SRD they will outcompete the native fish? Just seems odd this fish has been here for 10 years and 99% of the people on this forum didn't know about it. Even more odd that fisheries is aware of it yet they aren't throwing money at it.

Sorry, I am not trying to de-rail this thread, just trying to play devils advocate.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

Im not saying you shouldn't at all be concerned, but is it possible conditions are not ideal for this fish and there is little worry from SRD they will outcompete the native fish? Just seems odd this fish has been here for 10 years and 99% of the people on this forum didn't know about it. Even more odd that fisheries is aware of it yet they aren't throwing money at it.

Sorry, I am not trying to de-rail this thread, just trying to play devils advocate.

if srd admitted there was a problem that would reflect as a failure on the gov of the day. that cant happen until it is of some political value. this should have been made public since day one. why it has not is baffling.

[Swolf]

This is how you target Carp. I guess we will need to toss our rods aside and break out the our garbage cans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhfd9dIkXEk&sns=fb

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

Im not saying you shouldn't at all be concerned, but is it possible conditions are not ideal for this fish and there is little worry from SRD they will outcompete the native fish? Just seems odd this fish has been here for 10 years and 99% of the people on this forum didn't know about it. Even more odd that fisheries is aware of it yet they aren't throwing money at it.

Sorry, I am not trying to de-rail this thread, just trying to play devils advocate.

There is something we are missing for sure. That being said the population appears to be growing and their range increasing into the Red Deer River. I see this is significant facts that point to a problem. Maybe someone had orange goldfish in their heads and did not understand the Prussian Carp. Maybe someone did not want to spend money. Maybe the relevance is lost in F&W if they don't have an "Invasive Species Taskforce" set up to understand all the risks from a cost, ecology risk perspective.

I bet you if most of us were unaware...likely some in F&W were unaware.

Urgency in invasive species infiltrations comes from a set defined process within the government body that is responsible.

Emergency response plans are in place for everything...except invasive species threats I suspect. Release some oil into a river...BAM ...a plan is set into play. Release a toxic cloud of gas..BAM ...a plan is set into play. Release an invasive species into Alberta...BAM...nothing happens...after a few years someone stumbles into the species...puts it in a report...tells F&W... Few years later...someone does a study...finds some. Few years later...someone does a species composition study...finds the species population and range is expanding...then what...few years later do a study to understand the effects of the introduction? That is where I draw the line. We don't study the effects...reactive invasive species management is stupid on the best of days. Proactive invasive species management is required and a detailed publicly displayed response is needed to show leadership on this issue.

There should of been a first strike policy when it was first discovered.

[darius]

have you voiced your concearns to f&w about this and thier lack of response ? what did they say ?

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

There is something we are missing for sure. That being said the population appears to be growing and their range increasing into the Red Deer River. I see this is significant facts that point to a problem. Maybe someone had orange goldfish in their heads and did not understand the Prussian Carp. Maybe someone did not want to spend money. Maybe the relevance is lost in F&W if they don't have an "Invasive Species Taskforce" set up to understand all the risks from a cost, ecology risk perspective.

I bet you if most of us were unaware...likely some in F&W were unaware.

Urgency in invasive species infiltrations comes from a set defined process within the government body that is responsible.

Emergency response plans are in place for everything...except invasive species threats I suspect. Release some oil into a river...BAM ...a plan is set into play. Release a toxic cloud of gas..BAM ...a plan is set into play. Release an invasive species into Alberta...BAM...nothing happens...after a few years someone stumbles into the species...puts it in a report...tells F&W... Few years later...someone does a study...finds some. Few years later...someone does a species composition study...finds the species population and range is expanding...then what...few years later do a study to understand the effects of the introduction? That is where I draw the line. We don't study the effects...reactive invasive species management is stupid on the best of days. Proactive invasive species management is required and a detailed publicly displayed response is needed to show leadership on this issue.

There should of been a first strike policy when it was first discovered.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by darius

have you voiced your concearns to f&w about this and thier lack of response ? what did they say ?

I am always asking question.

We should all feel confortable asking the Minister in charge of sport fishing questions on our mind.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/MinistersOffice/

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[Brandon5555]

I work for a company called Calgary Aquaculture and we deal with this allot. We build ponds and water features for koi (carp). The people who own these water features seem to think that "oh look out fish are getting big, lets dump them in the river and go get more". Problem with this is, we now have carp reproducing in rivers, tributaries and lakes. They eat plants for the most part, and plants being depleted which help balance an ecosystem, makes for unstable habitats. They also alter food chains. Look at it this way, walleye and pike were happy eating perch and trout, food chain is established and consistent, but now we have pike and walleye, and other predatory fish eating carp, who reproduce like rabbits. Now the pike and walleye population explodes, they need to eat, so they deplete the perch and trout population. See how fast things go out of control? People need to get their heads out of their asses and see what they are causing!

[greylynx]

Good Post Brandon.

[Sundancefisher]

I received a post that stated F&W knew of carp in ponds off Serviceberry since 2000 and he caught a carp in 2002 in Red Deer City limits.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildli...lberta2007.pdf

HunterDave mentioned that so far Prussian Carp are not showing up on the Invasive Species list.

Obviously that is changing now.

In order to have fish in a lake you need a permit. Carp are not permitable. So why were they not removed?

[Sundancefisher]

Should better rules be put in place on the importation of live food fish as well as more bans on aquarium fish that could survive in Alberta's waters?

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by papirus

which freaking human being eats carp, they are the most stink and bone heaven fish ever...back home when we catch them we use them as a bait for pike or salt water fishes like grey mullet....

We used to spear the buggers (with grandpa's pitch forks) and then sell them to the blacks and asians.
we were about 5-8 yrs old and we would sell them for 1-2 bucks a piece.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

We used to spear the buggers (with grandpa's pitch forks) and then sell them to the blacks and asians.
we were about 5-8 yrs old and we would sell them for 1-2 bucks a piece.

UH OH!!!

[wwbirds]

Had DU field man here this week saying the bulrush areas of weed lake are alive with spawning Prussian carp introduced by some "maroon".
My sloughs/dugouts are indirectly connected to Weed Lake by a canal and for a few years my son has insisted he is seeing fish jump from time to time. Walking dog a few days ago near a training pond/dugout and happened upon a carp like fish on shore partially eaten by a bird which was 7-8 inches long. They are here!!

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Had DU field man here this week saying the bulrush areas of weed lake are alive with spawning Prussian carp introduced by some "maroon".
My sloughs/dugouts are indirectly connected to Weed Lake by a canal and for a few years my son has insisted he is seeing fish jump from time to time. Walking dog a few days ago near a training pond/dugout and happened upon a carp like fish on shore partially eaten by a bird which was 7-8 inches long. They are here!!

talked about carp at the last brooks fisheries meeting, J dam reservoir is full of prussian carp now as well as theyve been observed in a couple other local reservoirs, which drain into the Bow River. They are well suited to live here.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

talked about carp at the last brooks fisheries meeting, J dam reservoir is full of prussian carp now as well as theyve been observed in a couple other local reservoirs, which drain into the Bow River. They are well suited to live here.

We are stuck with the mess now. I wonder how many more bucket brigades are going to ruin more fisheries.

[the local angler]

no limit bow fishing for them like in the US

[jeprli]

This thread is still going

Anyone care to see how big the affected area is??? Don't think any kind of eradication will work, simply because most of it is inaccessible to us fisherman or spear/arrow man to have any effect. Let's just hope pike and walleye take advantage of this. Prussian carp is an easy pray for most avian predators, they only grow to about 4 lbs, easy meal for cormorants and for pike and walleye. Maybe we as fisherman will benefit from this.

Nobody knows for sure what kind of effect Prussian carp has on native species. From my experience fishing one of these infested dugouts, in it I found Prussian carp as dominant in numbers, perch right behind the, then there are suckers and tulibee (not sure of spelling), there are also lake whitefish and some big fat pike (which I choose not to fish for, I let em be and watch in amazement when they attack schools of bait fish.)

[stubblejumper01]

This is mentioned in this the April edition of AO. It states that in a 300 m stretch of the Rosebud there were thousands. They have gained a stronghold in the S Sk river basin and comprise 30 - 40 % of the fish in their field collection samples. They can spawn 3 times a year too. There is a pic on page 32 of them at the Hanna CNR res. as well as a listing of water bodies they infest.
Unfortunately it looks like it may be too late to stop them. It also states they think they may have come from ceremonial releases believed to bring good karma. Bad karma for our fisheries!

[DiabeticKripple]

so if you catch one, throw it in the bushes?

[Moefoe]

Figures...we get Carp in numbers and it's the dinky Prussian variety that displace native species and have little to no value as a sport fish!! I've said before that I'm on the fence when it comes to seeing the big guys (Common and Grass Carp) having caught them in Last Mountain Lake, too much fun...why does it have to be these Carp

[jeprli]

That's why last mountain lake looks like vico most of the year. Prussian carp don't uproot vegetation and don't cause nearly as much damage as common carp. Out of thousands of carp my group caught from last mountain lake we never seen a grass carp, only commons in that lake. My dad caught a "leather" carp out of there.

Prussian are smaller but just as fun to catch, I'd rather catch them then stunted walleye and undersized pike which seems to plague this part of province.

[jeprli]

Why do most guys point fingers at immigrants. As far as I know most greenhouse operations in prairies are owned by farmers who are born and bred Albertans. Maybe some of the their dugouts needed algae control and they put them in to control it. It all developed from rockyford area, not much for access unless you know the area very well.

Plenty more open accessible water around with much prettier scenery for ceremonial purposes.

[stubblejumper01]

According to the article in AO it was Kate Wilson who is the Aquatic Invasive Species Coordinator for ESRD that names a group of people she thinks probably did the ceremonial releases.
I merely stated the Prussian carp may have come from ceremonial releases and I did not blame any immigrants.
I only wanted to bring the article to people's attention so they could see the picture and read about how far they have spread as well as the other problems mentioned.

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

so if you catch one, throw it in the bushes?

Feed it to the bears....
Tight Lines,
Rob

[Icatchfish]

where they at? lets go catch some fish.

[jacenbeers]

I am going to catch a bunch next week for bait. They are great for that

[jeprli]

DId that on Newell few years back, took out innards and salted them so they don't fall apart later on. Guy next to me was using big smells and I beat him 5:1 within 3 hours of fishing. They give a lot of flash and seep oil which seems to take away any reluctance by pike. When pike see it they just want to eat it.

My dad uses light gear when fishing for these critters, and he's had quite a few pike eat his catch right in front of him, just before landing it.

I'm surprised Wayne hasn'T tried em for bait.

[Secret coulee]

I have not had nowere near the success with the prusion carp compared to my big sucker minnows for big pike.because of the shape of the carp I have a hard time presenting them Properly with my harnesses ice fishing.and with the length of carp I'm lookin for 8-12" they are so bloody deep in girth that there over all size dosnt work very well for the mouth of a pike.
But don't get me wrong big pike will inhale em but in the winter time it is hard enough hooking up consistently with quick strike homemade harnesses and I sure will not sit there in the cold for ten minutes waiting for a big pike to inhale one of these oblong carp and then your hookups are way to deep in a pikes mouth