dragons breath

jogforfun · #1 07-31-2014, 12:08 PM

does anyone know if dragons breath shells are legal I know they are kind of a grey zone but can you get in legal trouble for having them or trying to import them?

north american hunter · #2 07-31-2014, 12:13 PM

What would you want to use these shells for?

Might be a prohibited projectile.

Redfrog · #3 07-31-2014, 12:17 PM

Check with the RCMP.

jogforfun · #4 07-31-2014, 12:20 PM

I want to shoot a scare crow in the dark. just fun plain dumb redneck fun. as far as I know they are only magnesium that burns up before it hits the ground much like a roman candle. I don't think they a technically illegal But don't want to risk it until I know for sure

Dick284 · #5 07-31-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogforfun

I want to shoot a scare crow in the dark. just fun plain dumb redneck fun. as far as I know they are only magnesium that burns up before it hits the ground much like a roman candle. I don't think they a technically illegal But don't want to risk it until I know for sure

Ummmm Discharging a firearm at night???
You may want to investigate that bit of legalise as well...........

Section 52 of the Wildlife Act states:

Discharge of firearm at night
53 Except at a lawfully established and operated shooting range, a
person shall not discharge a firearm during the period referred to in
section 28.

and yes it's from the Wildlife Act, but it pertains to all shooting.

jogforfun · #6 07-31-2014, 12:27 PM

well like right at the half hour before sun set mark or on a really cloudy day. As dark as I can legally get

Redfrog · #7 07-31-2014, 12:33 PM

What did the cops say?

Dick284 · #8 07-31-2014, 12:39 PM

I can't see it for sale anywhere that list ammo on the web.... That right there could be a pretty good indication as to how this stuff falls out legally.

Then theres the potential fire issue.

How old are you anyways?

Lefty-Canuck · #9 07-31-2014, 12:45 PM

I believe incendiary rounds are frowned upon....heavily.

LC

DaleJ · #10 07-31-2014, 12:55 PM

Wait for winter. 4:00 pm Dec 21. Too dry in the Peace Country for that silliness right now.

DaleJ · #11 07-31-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Check with the RCMP.

Tell the cops your name Redfrog.

jogforfun · #12 07-31-2014, 01:06 PM

I don't want to do it on a dry summer day and I know they are frowned upon but so were the 8.5in grizzlies there are lots of stories about the cops trying to charge people for a completely legal shotgun. Also how many cops do not know how magazine capacity laws work. I don't want to break the law in any way. I just want to know flat out if they are in fact illegal?

vcool · #13 07-31-2014, 01:29 PM

When you look at the regulations.. there is nothing to indicate it is illegal.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...ltext.html#h-2

Quote:

PART 5 PROHIBITED AMMUNITION
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 10

1. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 x 28 mm P-90 cartridges. Definitely not relevant to this question

2. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered to ignite on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter. This doesn't apply since it doesn't ignite on impact but rather when the trigger is pulled, also the diameter of a 12 gauge is 18.5 mm, so it also wouldn't apply due to this

3. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to explode on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter. This doesn't apply since it doesn't explode by any common definition and again, the diameter of a 12 gauge is 18.5 mm, so it also wouldn't apply due to this

4. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a shotgun and that contains projectiles known as “fléchettes” or any similar projectiles. Definitely not relevant to this question

So.. since it isn't prohibited in the regulations of the firearms act, I would say it is not illegal to possess this ammunition. I suspect NR Can who is responsible for dealing with importation of commercial ammunition doesn't allow its commercial importation.

Importing your own will be a ton of work. I believe for importation to Canada, as long as its less than 5k rounds for personal use.. its not too big of a deal.. but the exporting from the states is where it gets nasty.

Ammunition can only be exported from the States by a licensed exporting business. They will need to get a specific permit for the shipment from the Department of State. For the DoS to grant a certificate, you will need to supply a Canadian International Import Certificate. You can't buy it yourself and bring it in to Canada or simply have it shipped as either of these would be exporting, and you'd likely run afoul of the folks in homeland security.

And all of this for a big flame? Too much work for me. Also if you were to find some.. be smart about its use as the others here are getting at. Although it may be legal, you will likely attract alot of attention. Although you might be in the right, theres not much to gain besides a few giggles for a big flame.

jogforfun · #14 07-31-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcool

When you look at the regulations.. there is nothing to indicate it is illegal.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...ltext.html#h-2

So.. since it isn't prohibited in the regulations of the firearms act, I would say it is not illegal to possess this ammunition. I suspect NR Can who is responsible for dealing with importation of commercial ammunition doesn't allow its commercial importation.

Importing your own will be a ton of work. I believe for importation to Canada, as long as its less than 5k rounds for personal use.. its not too big of a deal.. but the exporting from the states is where it gets nasty.

Ammunition can only be exported from the States by a licensed exporting business. They will need to get a specific permit for the shipment from the Department of State. For the DoS to grant a certificate, you will need to supply a Canadian International Import Certificate. You can't buy it yourself and bring it in to Canada or simply have it shipped as either of these would be exporting, and you'd likely run afoul of the folks in homeland security.

And all of this for a big flame? Too much work for me. Also if you were to find some.. be smart about its use as the others here are getting at. Although it may be legal, you will likely attract alot of attention. Although you might be in the right, theres not much to gain besides a few giggles for a big flame.

thanks I have read the regs but the importing info helps

vcool · #15 07-31-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogforfun

thanks I have read the regs but the importing info helps

If you've gone over the regs.. why the question or saying they're in a grey zone?

jogforfun · #16 07-31-2014, 02:40 PM

because going by the regs they are not illegal but gun shops can't import them. I was hoping to get some info from any one with first hand knowledge of bringing them in and or dealing with the law regarding them.

vcool · #17 07-31-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogforfun

thanks I have read the regs but the importing info helps

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogforfun

because going by the regs they are not illegal but gun shops can't import them. I was hoping to get some info from any one with first hand knowledge of bringing them in and or dealing with the law regarding them.

I suspect nobody has brought any in. Youll need to look at the NR Can list of approved ammo. If its not there, I suspect you're out of luck on getting them to sign off on it if its not on their list.

Redfrog · #18 07-31-2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleJ

Tell the cops your name Redfrog.

I realize asking the cops makes no sense at all, since they are the ones who will attend the firing

I'm just clutching at straws here, trying to save someone a visit to the remand centre.

wally338 · #19 07-31-2014, 06:57 PM

The replies on this thread remind me of my neighbour when he heard I purchased a 50BMG. " nobody should be allowed to own a 50, there is no need for it".

wolf308 · #20 07-31-2014, 07:48 PM

those dragon breath shells would be fricken awesome......unfortunatley they are probably only availible to tacticool police units and or johnny law enforcement ....... any how hope you get em .......good luck

maybe look up irunguns or wolverine supplies ........ they might help you out better

ctd · #21 07-31-2014, 10:31 PM

Memorandum D19-6-1

Administration of the Explosives Act

Prohibited Ammunition
8. Certain types of ammunition are prescribed to be prohibited ammunition and could be classified under tariff item No. 9898.00.00. Currently, armour-piercing handgun ammunition, explosive and incendiary ammunition, and shotgun ammunition containing "fléchettes" (darts) or similar projectiles are prohibited. For more information, see Memorandum D19-13-2, Importing and Exporting Firearms, Weapons and Devices

This information was copied from the CBSA website.

It looks like incendiary ammunition is prohibited.

32-40win · #22 08-01-2014, 01:33 AM

Judging by what it sells for down south, 30.00/5rds, it is definitely pricy, combine that with export fees and hazmat shipping to cross the border, you'd likely be 50.00 /5 rds retail up here. That is likely why nobody sells it up here, apart from the question of getting a ruling on importing it. Not worth the effort, to risk having it stuck at the border, and a big investment to bring in a skid of a novelty item, that may not sell too well.

Lefty-Canuck · #23 08-01-2014, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctd

Memorandum D19-6-1

Administration of the Explosives Act

Prohibited Ammunition
8. Certain types of ammunition are prescribed to be prohibited ammunition and could be classified under tariff item No. 9898.00.00. Currently, armour-piercing handgun ammunition, explosive and incendiary ammunition, and shotgun ammunition containing "fléchettes" (darts) or similar projectiles are prohibited. For more information, see Memorandum D19-13-2, Importing and Exporting Firearms, Weapons and Devices

This information was copied from the CBSA website.

It looks like incendiary ammunition is prohibited.

This would cover those...and seemingly they fall under this prohibition.

LC

greylynx · #24 08-01-2014, 03:36 PM

http://wolfhillammo.com/

See all the fun were missing?

Cwpowell · #25 08-03-2014, 12:28 AM

Make your own. Buy some of those fire starting sticks from Princess Auto, shave a bunch of magnesium on it, fill your brass shotgun shell with it, voila. If you haven't seen the brass shotgun shells for loading your own. Check them out on youtube or whatever. They're great for making experimental shells.

Be safe out there!