How many trout die "doing" pictures

[Taco]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Further evidence that catch and release fishing should be banned. Let the science tell you what your doing by hooking, playing and releasing several dozen fish a day....

There you go, you have a cause you believe in, quit wastin' time on the internet and start lobbyin' government

[Speckle55]

I can see them on the bottom in some lakes and will go pick up if I can as I try not to waste a fish that a human could eat .. caught and release quite a few .. some I release swim away out of hand good then go stick there head in the mud and drown them selves .. as I have a limit I will go pick up and take home .. I was planning not to take any that day.. or come back into that bay and see one floating and having trouble righting its self ..never even brought out of water.. just used plyers and released

there are other factors that can play into their survival rate

water temp
time of fight
etc

in some country's in Europe you can only catch a fish ..there is no release

also nothing is wasted in the end though as the circle of life come into play ( carrion eaters etc)

David

Originally Posted by grinr

How do you know that you get some/any/none mortality??
I know for certain that I see 100% mortality with fish that I release into my cooler.The rest generally swim away never to be seen again.

[tight line]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Rav...

As I pointed out and apologized for is relying on memory. It had been several years since I read the study.
I was wrong and corrected the error.
OK!


Don

Still a great read Don. And like RavYak said the fish were played to exhaustion in the study. Definately a good reminder to play the fish properly and return As quickly as possible!

[BCSteel]

So the take home from this is that Don is ok with killing a minimum of 12% (a number taken from his provided study) of the fish that he catches every year. Fish played to release (which is actually more handling than was required for the 12% mortality in the study) mortality is ok for Don. But you are a horrible person for killing a fish (up to 38% of them) if a quick pic is taken.

IMO, Don is a hypocrite for telling you not to take a pic because you will kill fish but at the same time believing in his own righteousness to kill a minimum of 12% of his released fish. If he wants us to believe his study then we need to believe all of it, not just the parts he picks and chooses to belittle people for wanting a photo of their catch.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

[Bhflyfisher]

5 second rule. Trout is only allowed to be out of the water for a max of 5 seconds between pictures. Organize your pictures before you let that fish flop around in the grass and dirt in your nets, like i know most of you do.

[RavYak]

^ For trout a net is a necessity, I wouldn't go fishing without a net unless I planned on keeping whatever I caught.

For pike a net can make the release a lot harder and longer, fortunately pike are about 10 times hardier then trout...

[Lefty-Canuck]

I heard a stat that 100% of the fish caught and kept die....I don't believe it but I read it on the internet so it has to be true

LC

[Don Andersen]

For all you whackers & stackers - you might take a read of http://mywildalberta.com/Fishing/doc...ey-Mar2012.pdf on page 21 you will find that whackers/stackers are getting fewer. About 90% of all fish caught are released.

And BC - I post to that folks should care enough to release their fish quickly and you think I'm a hypocrite . You best head to the dictionary.

Don

[fish gunner]

In the wrong circumstances those stats could be correct , fish played to exhaustion in warm water . I have released many trophy fish with out a pic as a risk of a good release due to enviroment /situation was not ideal. I have also released fish that I knew were not going to make it due to deep hooking . Saddining .

[Bhflyfisher]

I dont fully agree with don, but understand where hes coming from. There's a right way to take a picture with a fish and a wrong way.

The worst way, is people who are leaving fish out of the water when they're alone, laying them down on the ground, fumbling for the camera. Is that type of picture really what you need to prove you caught fish. Nothing impressive about a beautiful fish laying in grass, dirt and dry rocks. Makes me want to puke.

if you dont have water dripping off your fish in pictures, every second matters.

terrible. just terrible.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I heard a stat that 100% of the fish caught and kept die....I don't believe it but I read it on the internet so it has to be true

LC

I can guarantee that 100% of the fish I keep die.

Fishing tribs of the CN and Carbondale this weekend, 100% of caught fish were released sans hero shot. Not even sure it really happened.

[BeeGuy]

I've read that for every minute of finished video there are 10 minutes edited out.

Perhaps we should institute a ban on fishing based media products as they undoubtedly increase handling, manipulation, stress to the animal, time out of water etc in order to produce an entertaining or compelling piece. We know that all of these things lead to increased mortality whether we witness it immediately or not.

In fact, it makes perfect sense that animal-handling for commercial purposes only be done so under permit by the regulating authority.

This might be especially prudent for those species designated as at risk by COSEWIC.

[spinN'flyfish]

i say if u plan to release keep fish (after unhooking) in the water and net, until ready for the pics. Good Luck on saving the fish's life

[Redfrog]

"In fact, it makes perfect sense that animal-handling for commercial purposes only be done so under permit by the regulating authority."

Of course it does.

[J D]

Fish handling is one of those things that most will never agree on. Some believe it don't matter as long as they see the fish swim off and others believe fish are made of wet tissue paper.

Very few people get to truly observe the results of c&r fish handling. If you are doing it out in public waters you will not know the end result. Not all fish float when they die or show signs of problems when released.

Every species has a different tolerance level. Even from fish to fish it will vary. Some will survive chunks take out of them and other die from too long of a fight.

From seeing the results under closed conditions with trout I have my own opinion. Over time I have found somethings to be myths and others exaggerations. My opinion comes from years of observing large numbers not a few week or month long study.

When it comes to time out of water there are a bunch of factors that effect how long is safe. Extreme cold or heat, dry wind, rain, and stress all change the time you have.

Do your best not to beat up or exhaust the fish and limit the time out of the water are good practice. There is no magic time.

Just do your best to treat the fish you release with respect and if there is doubt on survival and legal keep it as part of your limit.

Good luck fishing guys

[goldscud]

Don't like nets, but it is easy to take pictures of the fish in the water

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Research has shown <> 50% of trout die after 30 seconds and 100% of trout die if kept out of the water for 60 seconds.
Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

BS....

[Dak1138]

Does anyone bother to read the whole thread before commenting...
Don please recheck your 'facts' before posting. Most of your 'crusades' are worth fighting for but to totally mess up stats this bad really hurts your credibility.
Unfortunately I am one of those that take a pic of most everything I catch because no one believes I caught anything. It may be from too many outings of getting skunked. However if I bring one in and I have trouble getting the hook out or whatever I just send them on their way, nonsense making things worse. And I also leave them in the net in the water as long as possible and I usually get the camera turned on and ready while I am bringing it in.
I know I am not perfect but I will release more without going for the camera from now on.

[lannie]

I think the eastern slopes would do very well to limit angling in the afternoon when the water is low, slow and warm. I believe the fatality rate is quite high even if the fish does not leave the water with the very low oxygen content. Personally I think I release fast(like every other fisher on here) and there is no way at this time of year with no precip. and outside temps of 75 f and hotter my fatality rate would not be at least 20 percent. Higher with bigger fish that took longer to bring in so I try and stay away from places like the Crow in these conditions.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Speckle55;2521463]

in some country's in Europe you can only catch a fish ..there is no release

David[/QUOTE

We have it here, Ontario has this regulation for the rare Aurora trout.

Angling for Aurora trout was opened on a limited basis on nine of the stocked lakes. Neither of the original two lakes is open to angling. Three lakes are open each year on a three year rotational basis.
• The catch and possession limit is one (1) fish for holders of a sport fishing licence and zero (0) fish for holders of a conservation licence.
• The use of live bait is prohibited on these lakes.
• There is no catch-&-Release. If you catch an Aurora Trout, you have to keep it and can not fish the rest of the day. To fish the next day, you must eat the Aurora Trout first as you can only have one (1) trout in your possession.

[BGSH]

the trout are fine, you can take the hook out of the fish then put the fish back into the net then ready for a photo take the fish out of the net then snap, release and you can catch the same trout in the same pool all summer long.

[schmedlap]

Originally Posted by J D

Fish handling is one of those things that most will never agree on. Some believe it don't matter as long as they see the fish swim off and others believe fish are made of wet tissue paper.

Very few people get to truly observe the results of c&r fish handling. If you are doing it out in public waters you will not know the end result. Not all fish float when they die or show signs of problems when released.

Every species has a different tolerance level. Even from fish to fish it will vary. Some will survive chunks take out of them and other die from too long of a fight.

From seeing the results under closed conditions with trout I have my own opinion. Over time I have found somethings to be myths and others exaggerations. My opinion comes from years of observing large numbers not a few week or month long study.

When it comes to time out of water there are a bunch of factors that effect how long is safe. Extreme cold or heat, dry wind, rain, and stress all change the time you have.

Do your best not to beat up or exhaust the fish and limit the time out of the water are good practice. There is no magic time.

Just do your best to treat the fish you release with respect and if there is doubt on survival and legal keep it as part of your limit.

Good luck fishing guys

My experience exactly. Of course, there is the odd one that's somehow "hooked badly". I had a 5 lb rainbow in the Bow, on a spun wet fly with single barbless, mouth hooked, played pretty quickly, out maybe 20 seconds tops, that could not be revived, one time (legally obligated, of course, to watch it float away for gull food). Had a 37" Pike (and they are way "tougher" than trout), out of the water very briefly, not severely hooked, that ended up floating away to be gull food. It depends on the particular fish, at the particular time, and probably the occasional "hook just hit the spot" ?
We caught the same tagged Walleye 3 times one weekend - swam away strongly each time. Caught the same one again 3 months later in the same spot (exceptionally dumb fish?) and it swam away again.
So...? I'll keep on the C&R routine, except for whacking the odd legal Walleye or Burbot for the pan.

[Bard]

My conclusions on this topic:

100% of fish that are whacked and stacked die.

A fish that is caught and released will quite often have a higher mortality rate than one that is not caught.

The study that Don showed appears to be valid in showing that a fish that is taken out of water has a mortality rate that is directly proportional to time out of water. This makes physiologic sense...it would be like putting a plastic bag over your head after going for a hard run. There is a point where the fish will suffer and it will eventually affect mortality. I don't think the specific mortality numbers matter all that much in proving this point.

What would I consider a catch and release technique to minimize mortality?...

Unbaited, unbarbed single hook, a fish that is played only enough to get it in, fish kept in water at all times with ability to use gills, don't touch the gills, try to flip fish off by only grabbing fly/lure with pliers, attempt to not handle fish with hands or net. If fish is overly tired and not able to keep its balance in water, gently support it with head facing upstream and don't swish it to and fro...wait for it to leave on it's own power when ready.

[BeeGuy]

Here is a quick tip to help distinguish between very stressed or lively trout.

A trout with a dilated pupil staring directly at the camera is likely stressed.

A trout looking down is likely lively and less stressed.

Take a look at some pics of fish and you'll quickly see the difference.

[Liarsenic]

I agree with beeguy about the orientation on the eye, with trout especially. Not sure how relevant with other species. But I have most definitely noticed that trout that are caught and landed quickly appear to be looking down and when exhausted the pupil is centered

[trooper]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

The fish I catch suffer a 99% mortality rate because we eat them, the only fish released are big lake trout. People shouldn't be allowed to catch and release any thing beyond their daily limit in my opinion.

X2 I wont fish any water body that isn't stocked. In my opinion, fishing is and always has been a method of food gathering.

[SleepyBuffalo]

I think a lot of these stats are bogus as well. If they were true there would be a lot of floating walleye in the heavier fished lakes such as Sylvan or Pigeon.

Where are they catching and releasing the fish that the study is done on? An aquarium? maybe within a net in a lake somewhere? Probably some environment where the fish is already under a lot of stress or anxiety...

Use common sense, don't handle the fish any more then is required and your doing your part.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by SleepyBuffalo

I think a lot of these stats are bogus as well. If they were true there would be a lot of floating walleye in the heavier fished lakes such as Sylvan or Pigeon.

Where are they catching and releasing the fish that the study is done on? An aquarium? maybe within a net in a lake somewhere? Probably some environment where the fish is already under a lot of stress or anxiety...

Use common sense, don't handle the fish any more then is required and your doing your part.

This topic has nothing to do with walleye.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Bard

My conclusions on this topic:


What would I consider a catch and release technique to minimize mortality?...

Unbaited, unbarbed single hook, a fish that is played only enough to get it in, fish kept in water at all times with ability to use gills, don't touch the gills, try to flip fish off by only grabbing fly/lure with pliers, attempt to not handle fish with hands or net. If fish is overly tired and not able to keep its balance in water, gently support it with head facing upstream and don't swish it to and fro...wait for it to leave on it's own power when ready.

X100!!
Imagine if Bow R. Trout that are C&Rd suffered a 50% or even 20% mortality rate....there would little to NONE trout swimming in the Bow,as I would think that with the amount of angling pressure that the Bow receives 24/7 365 year round,that the vast majority of 18"+ Bow R trout have been caught at least once in their lifetime prior to reaching 18",more likely that they have been caught multiple times,and wether by law or by choice,the vast majority of Bow R caught trout are live released? Sorry,but I ain't buying 50% + mortality rates,perhaps with live bait and rough handling yes,but not with barbless nor even barbed flies coupled with skilled landing,proper handling,and proven sound CnR techniques....no way/no how/not a chance,total BS!!

Better still,consider much smaller and much more fragile Eastern Slope cutty streams where it's not unheard of nor even uncommon to catch double digit numbers of cutts per day...10,20,30...50+ fish days from little streams that can only support "X" number of of fish.....ie;Livingstone,Oldman,Racehorse,Cataract to name a few,all of which are 100% CnR......if 50% or even 10% of released fish died,they would be wiped out in no time flat....by June 20th likely,lol.
Sorry Don,I've always enjoyed your posts and respect your skill and experience as an accomplished flyfisher,but those stats are a fantasy,I don't understand what point you're trying to make by posting such rediculous claims,the numbers don't even come close to reality and make no sense.

[spinN'flyfish]

Originally Posted by schmedlap

My experience exactly. Of course, there is the odd one that's somehow "hooked badly". I had a 5 lb rainbow in the Bow, on a spun wet fly with single barbless, mouth hooked, played pretty quickly, out maybe 20 seconds tops, that could not be revived, one time (legally obligated, of course, to watch it float away for gull food). Had a 37" Pike (and they are way "tougher" than trout), out of the water very briefly, not severely hooked, that ended up floating away to be gull food. It depends on the particular fish, at the particular time, and probably the occasional "hook just hit the spot" ?
We caught the same tagged Walleye 3 times one weekend - swam away strongly each time. Caught the same one again 3 months later in the same spot (exceptionally dumb fish?) and it swam away again.
So...? I'll keep on the C&R routine, except for whacking the odd legal Walleye or Burbot for the pan.

Didn't the regs also say not to waste the flesh of gamefish? The regs can be pretty misleading