Gay straight alliance

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I honestly find it harder to believe that we all descended from sludge..

Single cell organisms are basically immortal as when they "reproduce" they divide the same energy and resources equally. multicellular organisms have this reproductive cycle thing, which means everything not reproduction related is secondary to survival of DNA and expendable, hence mortality.

since all life evolved from single cell organisms, who are incapable of sin(just like god), doesn't it kind of shed a different light on things?

I think I need a bowl of wheaties now.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Is that like a life hole coming from the deep?

And I found this.. I think we win!

Oh goody, dualling memes:

015-Your-Reference-Book-650x487.jpg

[EORE]

One thing I can't stand is pedos homos and divorcees. The devil has special place for them. The good lord shows the good path. It's my belief and it's true to!

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by EORE

One thing I can't stand is pedos homos and divorcees. The devil has special place for them. The good lord shows the good path. It's my belief and it's true to!

And what about the good catholic gay children born of good God fearing catholic men and women?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by EORE

One thing I can't stand is pedos homos and divorcees. The devil has special place for them. The good lord shows the good path. It's my belief and it's true to!

I echo Winch's post. Mod's, do your thing. Shut 'er down. The hate's oozing now. We're about 7 pages past reasoned debate.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by EORE

One thing I can't stand is pedos homos and divorcees. The devil has special place for them. The good lord shows the good path. It's my belief and it's true to!

Ah, this is a joke no?

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by avb3

I find it interesting that it is only the fundamentalist christians on here who object to the GSA's.

Everyone else seems to be saying, look, there is a group which is marginalized at a very traumatic point in their lives (adolescence), let's provide an avenue for support for this minority.

The fundies get all bent out of shape thinking the sky is going to fall in. It won't.

Remember all that claptrap that if homosexuals get married that society would end?

Didn't happen. It does not affect anyone else but the couple who get married. It won't affect your marriage, and it does not affect society.

Either will GSAs. It will help a vulnerable part of our society. And how can one not support that and claim morality?

As a Christian (one that won't fit AVB's definition of 'fundamentalist ) I don't object to GSA's. In today's societal climate I think they are probably a good thing.

What I object to is government imposition of them in opposition to other supposedly guaranteed charter rights. That tells me that our supposedly sacrosanct 'right of freedom of religion' is not as guaranteed as we'd like to believe. And that opens the door to further erosion of that 'right' in particular. That means there will be those who despise Christians who will use that to further their agendas at the expense of those who seek to follow Christ (thus trampling on our 'rights'). After all, Christ did tell us that 'the world' would hate us just as they hate Him! But our country is supposed to be one wherein we shouldn't have to be concerned about that hatred affecting our freedom to follow Him (right?????)!

What astounds me is that there are so many people (even in this thread) who think they know what followers of Christ believe and try to live according to but they actually know very little - and in their ignorance still feel free to denigrate our beliefs and spiritual identity even as they 'speak' from negative stereotype ideas of what a Christian really is. It's like saying: I saw a hunter, who ended up being a poacher, therefore all hunters are poachers .

Winch says he is offended at the content of the discussion, fair enough, so am I (at some of it - there are offensive statements made by some). But I doubt he understands just how integral to my identity as a person my faith is. It is just as 'serious' to me as is my gender and gender orientation (heterosexual). And, as one 'brother' in the faith has pointed out some time ago in this thread, there is a stream of Christian doctrine that does say we do not choose to be a Christian - God chooses us and we become aware of that as we 'learn' about Him, are nurtured in the faith, and what it means to belong to His 'family', a family that is comprised of all people who put trust, hope, and faith in Him - regardless of their ethnicity, skin-colour, gender, etc.

I have homosexual persons in my church (for those who don't know, I am a Pastor) and I love 'em as brothers and sisters in the Family of God. They have a place in 'my' church just like anyone else who follows God's will and way. Jesus, in following something God commanded way back in Biblical history, affirmed the law, "Love your neighbour as yourself." Unfortunately there is far too little of that in our world - and I suspect even in the 'brotherhood / sisterhood' of AO.

[EORE]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

And what about the good catholic gay children born of good God fearing catholic men and women?

They don't exist

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

As a Christian (one that won't fit AVB's definition of 'fundamentalist ) I don't object to GSA's. In today's societal climate I think they are probably a good thing.

What I object to is government imposition of them in opposition to other supposedly guaranteed charter rights. That tells me that our supposedly sacrosanct 'right of freedom of religion' is not as guaranteed as we'd like to believe. And that opens the door to further erosion of that 'right' in particular. That means there will be those who despise Christians who will use that to further their agendas at the expense of those who seek to follow Christ (thus trampling on our 'rights'). After all, Christ did tell us that 'the world' would hate us just as they hate Him! But our country is supposed to be one wherein we shouldn't have to be concerned about that hatred affecting our freedom to follow Him (right?????)!

What astounds me is that there are so many people (even in this thread) who think they know what followers of Christ believe and try to live according to but they actually know very little - and in their ignorance still feel free to denigrate our beliefs and spiritual identity even as they 'speak' from negative stereotype ideas of what a Christian really is. It's like saying: I saw a hunter, who ended up being a poacher, therefore all hunters are poachers .

Winch says he is offended at the content of the discussion, fair enough, so am I (at some of it - there are offensive statements made by some). But I doubt he understands just how integral to my identity as a person my faith is. It is just as 'serious' to me as is my gender and gender orientation (heterosexual). And, as one 'brother' in the faith has pointed out some time ago in this thread, there is a stream of Christian doctrine that does say we do not chose to be a Christian - God chooses us and we become aware of that as we 'learn' about Him, are nurtured in the faith, and what it means to belong to His 'family', a family that is comprised of all people who put trust, hope, and faith in Him - regardless of their ethnicity, skin-colour, gender, etc.

I have homosexual persons in my church (for those who don't know, I am a Pastor) and I love 'em as brothers and sisters in the Family of God. They have a place in 'my' church just like anyone else who follows God's will and way. Jesus, in following something God commanded way back in Biblical history, affirmed the law, "Love your neighbour as yourself." Unfortunately there is far too little of that in our world - and I suspect even in the 'brotherhood / sisterhood' of AO.

Well said. the few passages against homosexuality do not override the main tenants of your faith. Jesus died for their sins as well did he not.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It took me about 10 years to lose my accent after leaving Ft Mac.

Fixed:
It took me about 10 years to lose me accent after leaving Ft Mac.

Sorry couldnt help meself...

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by EORE

They don't exist

Wow. Just wow. Time to bow out of this thread before I get banned.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

As a Christian (one that won't fit AVB's definition of 'fundamentalist ) I don't object to GSA's. In today's societal climate I think they are probably a good thing.

You and I have had some reasoned debates, whereby on occasion, we even have come to agreement, albeit, rarely. Regardless, I have always enjoyed your perspective.

What I object to is government imposition of them in opposition to other supposedly guaranteed charter rights. That tells me that our supposedly sacrosanct 'right of freedom of religion' is not as guaranteed as we'd like to believe. And that opens the door to further erosion of that 'right' in particular. That means there will be those who despise Christians who will use that to further their agendas at the expense of those who seek to follow Christ (thus trampling on our 'rights'). After all, Christ did tell us that 'the world' would hate us just as they hate Him! But our country is supposed to be one wherein we shouldn't have to be concerned about that hatred affecting our freedom to follow Him (right?????)!

I'm not sure whereby the legislation of the right to have GSAs infringes on religion?

Winch says he is offended at the content of the discussion, fair enough, so am I (at some of it - there are offensive statements made by some). But I doubt he understands just how integral to my identity as a person my faith is. It is just as 'serious' to me as is my gender and gender orientation (heterosexual). And, as one 'brother' in the faith has pointed out some time ago in this thread, there is a stream of Christian doctrine that does say we do not chose to be a Christian - God chooses us and we become aware of that as we 'learn' about Him, are nurtured in the faith, and what it means to belong to His 'family', a family that is comprised of all people who put trust, hope, and faith in Him - regardless of their ethnicity, skin-colour, gender, etc.

My spirituality is probably just as an integral part of me as yours, but it is mine, and no one else's. I have no right to insist that others need to follow my moral code because it exists. A great passage is, "If it feels good do it. If it harms you or someone else, don't"

That covers just about all situations.

I have homosexual persons in my church (for those who don't know, I am a Pastor) and I love 'em as brothers and sisters in the Family of God. They have a place in 'my' church just like anyone else who follows God's will and way. Jesus, in following something God commanded way back in Biblical history, affirmed the law, "Love your neighbour as yourself." Unfortunately there is far too little of that in our world - and I suspect even in the 'brotherhood / sisterhood' of AO.

Wish you could change some of the more strident fundamentalist minds to think like you do about your members. It starts living what is being preached, which is often a rarity.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by EORE

They don't exist

You forgot a smilie, right?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Coho911

Yes I know and agree, I am saying that the LGBT groups are saying religious groups CANNOT have their opinions or beliefs - completely against the charter's section 15 which gives and guarantees religious opinions and beliefs (along with racial, sexual, etc.).

By LGBT groups bringing lawsuits against PRIVATE businesses that practice their own religious beliefs - that in itself is discrimination saying "you cannot have your business because I don't like your opinion". Keyword - PRIVATE businesses - not public.

A LGBT group cannot stop a devout catholic the right to have a bible reading club. A catholic can't stop a LGBT group from having a club.

A business can also not exclude me just because I am black either. Even if public.

[EORE]

Beware wolfs in sheep clothing.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

Well said. the few passages against homosexuality do not override the main tenants of your faith. Jesus died for their sins as well did he not.

Absolutely.. We are taught to love our neighbours. Christians and not. We are not taught to say that sinful behaviour is good though..

This is what pops into my head when this issue comes up.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Absolutely.. We are taught to love our neighbours. Christians and not. We are not taught to say that sinful behaviour is good though..

This is what pops into my head when this issue comes up.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

is persecution to the point of self abuse and suicide a good act when committed against an evil doer?

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by avb3

Wish you could change some of the more strident fundamentalist minds to think like you do about your members. It starts living what is being preached, which is often a rarity.

I think a fundamental Christian would be peaceable with all people if possible. I realize there are gonna be groups who don't tolerate certain people because of certain sins in their lives, but that can't be a fundamental quality of a Christian because Jesus befriended the worse sinners he could find. We should replicate him. Would he tell a gay person to keep it up, who cares? Or would he stop the person from being executed and then tell them to go and sin no more??

I also believe that a fundamental Christian isn't going to stop believing something is a sin because it doesn't jive with secular society. Jesus says we will be hated because of him. People don't hate you because you're just so nice to everyone and you do lots of charity work. Sticking to you guns concerning sins that are socially acceptable though?? Ya that could reap you some hate.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

is persecution to the point of self abuse and suicide a good act when committed against an evil doer?

Absolutely not. If you love someone you won't push them to suicide. And if that means they never want to discus it and don't care what you have to say about it them fine! Chasing someone around yelling at them about being a sinner can't be effective. I'm always open to give my perspective to people who are receptive.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Absolutely not. If you love someone you won't push them to suicide. And if that means they never want to discus it and don't care what you have to say about it them fine! Chasing someone around yelling at them about being a sinner can't be effective. I'm always open to give my perspective to people who are receptive.

So, we're in agreement here which is good. Now can you help me understand how having a group who's helped prevent sinners from committing yet another sin(suicide) is being repressed?
Keep in mind that Christians are still allowed to pray, practice faith, build churches, baptise and raise your children within your faith, conduct missionary work, and solicit new followers so the right to religious freedom is not being infringed upon at all.

I'm receptive as much as I can be for a non believer, though I lean more towards agnostic then I do athiest.