Outfitters area's???

[GummyMonster]

Morning,
I have a couple questions about outfitters and their areas.
When an outfitter has an area, can resident hunters get tags and hunt in that area,or is it the outfitters private area?
Also, do they apply for tags,and sell them to their hunters,does the hunter apply for them,or how does that work?
NOT looking to start some argument,just get a couple knowledgeable answers.
Thanks' in advance,
Ken

[sapper6fd]

Id like to know the answer to this as well. As far as I'mm concerned, if the area is open to hunting, then its open to hunting. Outfitters shouldn't get any special treatment - if anything, they should have a harder time as they're essentially selling a harvest which you and I cant do. Yeah its someone else pulling the trigger, but that person paid big bucks for everything leading up to pulling that trigger.

[Winch101]

Alberta Professional Outfitters Association

Read their website , all will be explained . I am of the opinion

That according to their mandate , they Are the main management assoc .

For the benefit of wildlife and as such ,should have exclusive hunting rights

over vast domains . I could be wrong

This informative thread on here ......


http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/archi.../t-209990.html

Stays in my mind

[Big Grey Wolf]

The guides/outfitters bid for licenses in each WMU then sell them to American hunters. Some WMU,s have very high ratio of outfitter tags to resident tags.My memory is WMU,s like 525 and 354 as examples they argued that these were isolated zones and got their moose tags way up to around 30+% which is way above the norm.

[Redfrog]

Where do you guys get your info?

Outfitters have allocations for big game. These allocations are for a specific WMU. One allocation=1 tag.

There is a formula that allows a percentage of available tags for outfitters.

As an example and only as an example. If 4000 tags are available the outfitters would be eligible for 10%.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY AND MAY NOT BE ACCURATE NUMBERS.

They own the allocations and must renew the license for them each year. F/W can change these allocations to manage wildlife numbers.

Bird outfitters have an allocation for a specific WMU. Anyone who pays to hunt birds in Alberta must hire a licensed bird guide/outfitter.

Non resident bird hunters may hunt in Alberta without a guide.
Non resident big game hunters must have a guide.

A guide works for an outfitter.

[AlbertaWhitetail]

what if you came upon an outfitter sign saying this is their area to hunt on crown land. ?

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by AlbertaWhitetail

what if you came upon an outfitter sign saying this is their area to hunt on crown land. ?

Walk by it respectfully and carry on ethically

Its crown

[AlbertaWhitetail]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Walk by it respectfully and carry on ethically

Its crown

What i was going to get at is i would just walk past it they have no entitlement to the land.

[German]

Originally Posted by AlbertaWhitetail

what if you came upon an outfitter sign saying this is their area to hunt on crown land. ?

They have no jurisdiction on where a resident hunter goes on crown land. We are all equal owners of crown land.

[Pixel Shooter]

Bingo

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Where do you guys get your info?

Outfitters have allocations for big game. These allocations are for a specific WMU. One allocation=1 tag.

There is a formula that allows a percentage of available tags for outfitters.

As an example and only as an example. If 4000 tags are available the outfitters would be eligible for 10%.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY AND MAY NOT BE ACCURATE NUMBERS.

They own the allocations and must renew the license for them each year. F/W can change these allocations to manage wildlife numbers.

Bird outfitters have an allocation for a specific WMU. Anyone who pays to hunt birds in Alberta must hire a licensed bird guide/outfitter.

Non resident bird hunters may hunt in Alberta without a guide.
Non resident big game hunters must have a guide.

A guide works for an outfitter.

[Redfrog]

Outfitters may have exclusive access to private property, but not crown land. I didn't see the sign, but it could be there as a courtesy to alert others that it is an active hunting area, or possibly baits in the area.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by GummyMonster

Morning,
I have a couple questions about outfitters and their areas.
When an outfitter has an area, can resident hunters get tags and hunt in that area,or is it the outfitters private area?
Also, do they apply for tags,and sell them to their hunters,does the hunter apply for them,or how does that work?
NOT looking to start some argument,just get a couple knowledgeable answers.
Thanks' in advance,
Ken

First question. Yes.

Second question. Big game Outfitters do not have an area per se. To expand on what RedFrog posted, outfitters acquires the rights to the privilege of an allocation which is valid for one licence in one particular wmu. An outfitter can have multiple allocations in the same wmu, and multiple outfitters can have allocations in the same wmu. Initial sale of the allocation is from the government to an outfitter. Further transfers of the allocation are between outfitters. The licence is sold to the non resident hunter by the government through an agreement with the outfitter.

Red did miss the mark on the correlation between resident/outfitter licences.
Outfitters are generally limited to 10% of the Allowable Harvest (not licences). The 10% AH is based on a species management area SMA, comprising many wmus. This system allows the outfitter to have 30-50% of the AH in a particular wmu by a rule of averaging over the SMA.

The number of licences issued for residents and outfitter allocations is calculated through success rates for each group in that wmu. The success rates include the use of outfitter and resident draw licences not sold. This has lead to some outfitter allocations to be dramatically inflated in areas where they are not successfully marketing the hunt. There are many areas where outfitters are submitting success rates of less than 5%, which gives them 20 licences to sell to kill one animal. Here is where the game is played with SMA averaging mentioned earlier. Poor wmu allocations (unsellable low success rate hunts) are transferred to more marketable hunts in other wmus within the SMA, resulting in particularly productive wmus where outfitters have a high percentage of the licences available since resident licences must be reduced to maintain the AH threshold.

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Where do you guys get your info?

Outfitters have allocations for big game. These allocations are for a specific WMU. One allocation=1 tag.

There is a formula that allows a percentage of available tags for outfitters.

As an example and only as an example. If 4000 tags are available the outfitters would be eligible for 10%.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY AND MAY NOT BE ACCURATE NUMBERS.

They own the allocations and must renew the license for them each year. F/W can change these allocations to manage wildlife numbers.

Bird outfitters have an allocation for a specific WMU. Anyone who pays to hunt birds in Alberta must hire a licensed bird guide/outfitter.

Non resident bird hunters may hunt in Alberta without a guide.
Non resident big game hunters must have a guide.

A guide works for an outfitter.

[wbl170]

I thought it was based on Smu's. Well put WB.

[Okotokian]

Only the private land they have paid the owner to lock up for themselves.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Only the private land they have paid the owner to lock up for themselves.

Oki, that never happens Joking of course. Or am I?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Only the private land they have paid the owner to lock up for themselves.

Very helpful.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Very helpful.

You are right, there is no cash passing hands anywhere.

[Redfrog]

I had forgotten about that urban myth. Thanks for reminding me. It's time for a good old outfitter bashing derail anyway. It's been a while.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I had forgotten about that urban myth. Thanks for reminding me. It's time for a good old outfitter bashing derail anyway. It's been a while.

Days. Much too long. LOL

Just having some Friday fun Red.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You are right, there is no cash passing hands anywhere.

I disagree with this completely.
Its only bottles of whiskey and cases of beer that pass hands.

[wildside2014]

Unless the Outfitter owns the land, they have no right to try and kick you off anywhere, including private land. Id do my due diligence and talk to the land owner before listening to any outfitter. I would, and have told a few outfitters to pound fist when ive been told 'the land is spoken for' or 'they have outfitters land rights'. wmu 232 and 230 is brutal for this.

Last year I had a couple of guides try and tell me a goose shoot was spoken for while I was roadside watching.......I went with the conversation pretending to be naïve. The reality was that yep, it was spoken for alright, by myself and my crew as we were really close friends with the landowner. Once I came out and told them the reality of the situation they were rather perturbed but they buggered off. Some guides and outfitters CAN be rather greasy. Some are law biding great guys, others aren't.