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02-02-2015, 11:24 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
In order to replicate something, you would first have to have a clue as to how it was done in the first place. As it apparently very obvious that you don't, I eagerly await your results.
A similar rifle? Can't wait to see what that looks like!
Your attempts to discredit what has happened are really getting just silly, are a display of the poorest kind of sportsmanship, and are discouraging others from participating.
R.
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That sums it up nicely Rman! Bergerboy should grow up and become Bergerman lol 
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02-02-2015, 11:30 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonob1
It would be helpful if some of these personal spats could happen off podium. If anyone is thinking Rman is BSing then respectfully, why not sort it out privately? Nothing of any factual basis has been offered to dispute his claim.
Rman, I have read the posts, reviewed the graph and math calcs presented and can see nothing posted that disputes your posted results and take you at your word. Congrats - truly an amazing display of marksmanship. I tried the challenge again yesterday and again failed miserably. I could not repeat your feat off the bench.
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Coming atcha Nelson!
Here is the QuickLOAD data to make that ol 38-55 get 2100fps at the muzzle as Mr. Rman claims. This insane velocity is the only way that projectile can reasonably make it to the target with any stability. This was done with several different powders and this was the most conservative curve that could be found. If you look on the bottom right of the window, you will see that once the bullet has made it 16.8mm, the chamber pressures reach a staggering 49,180psi. Almost double the recommended max. People have reported older shotguns exploding (bessiedog) for only using steel in a leag rated gun. I believe that this old relic of a 38-55 would have become a mushroom cloud at the bench long before it got to 2100fps.
Please anyone else that has a 38-55 here is the proof that you cannot obtain those velocites and you will likely be killed. Do not try to duplicate the fiction you have read previously in this thread and please stay within the confines of your loading manual.
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02-02-2015, 11:32 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
What do you guys think would be the maximum pressure that Rmans old 38-55 could handle? I think in the reloading books they state the maximum is 27500psi. Would you all agree this is fairly accurate or does someone else have better data?
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You already asked this question...please refer to post #68...
Are you so twisted up that you can't even remember what you've asked and have had answered?
Ridiculous.
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:36 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
Coming atcha Nelson!
Here is the QuickLOAD data to make that ol 38-55 get 2100fps at the muzzle as Mr. Rman claims. This insane velocity is the only way that projectile can reasonably make it to the target with any stability. This was done with several different powders and this was the most conservative curve that could be found. If you look on the bottom right of the window, you will see that once the bullet has made it 16.8mm, the chamber pressures reach a staggering 49,180psi. Almost double the recommended max. People have reported older shotguns exploding (bessiedog) for only using steel in a leag rated gun. I believe that this old relic of a 38-55 would have become a mushroom cloud at the bench long before it got to 2100fps.
Please anyone else that has a 38-55 here is the proof that you cannot obtain those velocites and you will likely be killed. Do not try to duplicate the fiction you have read previously in this thread and please stay within the confines of your loading manual.
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Instead of spewing your crud, why don't you look at what pressures a Model 94 can be operated at? HINT: Maybe check out some of the other rounds the rilfe is chambered in, and check out the pressures they run at.
Peep out a few reloading manuals while you are at it.
Again, we discussed this before...
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
You already asked this question...please refer to post #68...
Are you so twisted up that you can't even remember what you've asked and have had answered?
Ridiculous.
R.
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No worries Rman its just that your original assumption of recommended pressures was incorrect.
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02-02-2015, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
Instead of spewing your crud, why don't you look at what pressures a Model 94 can be operated at? HINT: Maybe check out some of the other rounds the rilfe is chambered in, and check out the pressures they run at.
Again, we discussed this before...
R.
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Would you be able to direct a person to credible information about the operating pressures of a Model 94? HINT: The same cartridge you are using as well.
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02-02-2015, 11:40 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
No worries Rman its just that your original assumption of recommended pressures was incorrect.
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They were not.
You are incorrect, again.
Run a search, read some books.
I'm not the only one running that bullet at that speed.
Why don't you just stop embarrasing yourself?
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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02-02-2015, 11:43 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
Would you be able to direct a person to credible information about the operating pressures of a Model 94? HINT: The same cartridge you are using as well.
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You do know that the rifle was chambered in 30-30 as well?
You do know that a 30-30 has a maximum chamber pressure of 42,000 psi?
You have been told that the rifle has had a fair bit of work done on it?
Give up. You are now just being silly.
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:44 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
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Quoting Chuck Hawks has been the downfall of many...
Add another to the list...
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Damn there is more. Seems like the internet is just littered with facts.
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
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02-02-2015, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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02-02-2015, 11:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Keep digging!!!
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: High River, AB
Posts: 10,788
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Bergerboy has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that launching a 255 grain projectile out of the venerable 38-55 at a muzzle velocity of 2100 fps is nothing less than fatal. Thus a good post and warning to others who may be tempted to try this is not recommended. And further more, if this ballistic feat is superbly questionable and this thread is about a 500 yard target challenge, then one has no other avenue than to also question the resulting target.
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02-02-2015, 11:49 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
No worries Rman its just that your original assumption of recommended pressures was incorrect.
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You sound pathetic and should shut it.
Get off this thread, you've ruined it.
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02-02-2015, 11:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadeer
You sound pathetic and should shut it.
Get off this thread, you've ruined it.
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Just trying to save lives dude. That is all.
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02-02-2015, 11:56 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun
Bergerboy has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that launching a 255 grain projectile out of the venerable 38-55 at a muzzle velocity of 2100 fps is nothing less than fatal. Thus a good post and warning to others who may be tempted to try this is not recommended. And further more, if this ballistic feat is superbly questionable and this thread is about a 500 yard target challenge, then one has no other avenue than to also question the resulting target.
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Look who is back!!!
Bergerboy has only proven his ignorance and now you are here to back that up.
Gentleman, please. Do some actual reading. DO a search for 38-55 load data.
SAAMI ensures that comercially loaded amunition is safe to fire FROM ALL RIFLES!!!! Look to see what other rifles were chambered in 38-55...
Come on you guys...this has gone well beyond silly.
R.
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02-02-2015, 11:58 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
Look who is back!!!
Bergerboy has only proven his ignorance and now you are here to back that up.
Gentleman, please. Do some actual reading. DO a search for 38-55 load data.
SAAMI ensures that comercially loaded amunition is safe to fire FROM ALL RIFLES!!!! Look to see what other rifles were chambered in 38-55...
Come on you guys...this has gone well beyond silly.
R.
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You started it when you posted that target.
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02-02-2015, 12:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
You started it when you posted that target.
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And yet you are the only one that seems to think so?
Sad.
R.
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02-02-2015, 12:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: High River, AB
Posts: 10,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadeer
You sound pathetic and should shut it.
Get off this thread, you've ruined it.
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No, he doesn't sound pathetic. In fact he is very factual, both in terms of the maximum design pressure of said firearm and of the data provided which states that chamber pressure would be extremely destructive in order to achieve the claimed velocity for said 255gr projectile.
And the thread hasn't been ruined. On the contrary, it is very informative and cautionary to anyone who may attempt likewise.
What could possibly be wrong with questioning certain claims. Are we supposed to take everything for granted as factual? And what modifications could Rman possibly have done to this rifle to take it from a maximum rating of 30,000 psi to all of a sudden nearly 50,000 psi?
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02-02-2015, 12:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun
No, he doesn't sound pathetic. In fact he is very factual, both in terms of the maximum design pressure of said firearm and of the data provided which states that chamber pressure would be extremely destructive in order to achieve the claimed velocity for said 255gr projectile.
And the thread hasn't been ruined. On the contrary, it is very informative and cautionary to anyone who may attempt likewise.
What could possibly be wrong with questioning certain claims. Are we supposed to take everything for granted as factual? And what modifications could Rman possibly have done to this rifle to take it from a maximum rating of 30,000 psi to all of a sudden nearly 50,000 psi?
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He is not factual, at all, and niether are you.
The premise under which you have decided to come back to the forum is beyond obvious as well. Even more sad.
What is the maximum design pressure of a Winchester Model 94?
The data provided is not my data, so how is it useful? It was assembled in the worst possible way to discredit what has happened.
You, spewing rhertoric about what is safe and what isn't is beyond laughable as well...
The only thing wrong with questioning certain claims, is that niether you, or Bergerboy have actually asked any questions. It started out that way, and changed from questions to accusations.
The 50,000 psi number is your number, not mine, meaning it really is as useless as all the other other crap that has been brought to this thread by him, and now you.
The fact that you changed a CUP measurement to PSI, to better further your illusion should be enough to show that niether one of you really know what you are talking about...
R.
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02-02-2015, 12:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
He is not factual, at all, and niether are you.
The premise under which you have decided to come back to the forum is beyond obvious as well. Even more sad.
What is the maximum design pressure of a Winchester Model 94?
The data provided is not my data, so how is it useful? It was assembled in the worst possible way to discredit what has happened.
You, spewing rhertoric about what is safe and what isn't is beyond laughable as well...
The only thing wrong with questioning certain claims, is that niether you, or Bergerboy have actually asked any questions. It started out that way, and changed from questions to accusations.
The 50,000 psi number is your number, not mine, meaning it really is as useless as all the other other crap that has been brought to this thread.
The fact that you changed a CUP measurement to PSI, to better further your illusion should be enough to show that niether one of you really know what you are talking about...
R.
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Can you please counter my claims with factual evidence and not with insults and personal opinion. I have provided facts that can be reaserched with the links provided above. Can you do the same please? What formula are you using to convert CUP to PSI?
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02-02-2015, 12:36 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy
Can you please counter my claims with factual evidence and not with insults and personal opinion. I have provided facts that can be reaserched with the links provided above. Can you do the same please? What formula are you using to convert CUP to PSI?
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I have really done everything I can to help you out with this. The links that you have posted, are invalid for the reasons I have posted.
You look up what the maximum operating pressure for Model 94 is, and get back to me.
R.
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02-02-2015, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hythe
Posts: 4,354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
And yet you are the only one that seems to think so?
Sad.
R.
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No he isn't. but I'm past the point of caring. You bs your friends and I'll bs mine but let's not bs each other.
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02-02-2015, 12:56 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmhunter
Boyz, boyz, boyz.........................
Since there is so much distrust here, there is one very simple way to prove that the people that are participating are posting their actual results.
Pictures of paper targets with holes in them, that could have been done by poking a hole though it with a nail like Bergerboy's and I am not saying that he did, should not be accepted as proof.
The only proof that should be posted, is the actual shooter, doing the shooting live and on Video! Then down loaded for everyone to see first hand. Sound fair??? |
^^^^ IMHO this is the only real way to settle this matter as gentlemen. All the charts and calculations in the world don't mean a thing, especially if the shooter posts an unedited video of the shooting taking place at 500 yards. Just saying!
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02-02-2015, 12:57 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hythe
Posts: 4,354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmhunter
^^^^ IMHO this is the only real way to settle this matter as gentlemen. All the charts and calculations in the world don't mean a thing, especially if the shooter posts an unedited video of the shooting taking place at 500 yards. Just saying! |
Absolutely. Seeing is believing
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02-02-2015, 12:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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no doubt!!!!
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02-02-2015, 01:01 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maidstone Sask
Posts: 2,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun
And what modifications could Rman possibly have done to this rifle to take it from a maximum rating of 30,000 psi to all of a sudden nearly 50,000 psi?
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Where did you get 30,000 psi from? The industry standard maximum average pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 CUP.
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02-02-2015, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver
Where did you get 30,000 psi from? The industry standard maximum average pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 CUP.
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The cartridge of discussion is a 38-55.
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