MacGregor Whitefish in big trouble

[Bigfeet]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I agree with wayne, 90 % of the fish are in 5 % of the lake.... You're just fishing the wrong 5%. White numbers should be on the rise without commercial fisherman this early in the game after the closure. We shall see what happens ten years from now. Might just end up with tons of small whites.

Well, my N (as you put it) is pretty darn high over the years. I am not basing my observations on only one day, but years. My most recent day was just another that added to my previous.

Really, I had no intention of defending my fishing ability - just trying to bring to light an issue I see with this population. If you think I suck as a fisherman, fine. I don't really care. I care about the resource. It is annoying to have replies from people who don't make any mention of being to that lake, and fished for Whitefish there in particular, and think I am fishing the wrong 5% or that there is no problem with the resource. Tell me why, with your number of N's at this lake, you feel the population is OK. Maybe someone has been there and done well, that would be great. I really would like some good news about the Whitefish numbers. But my experience has been years of decline in catch rates.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

Well with your experience you should know your N (one angler, one sport fishing day) doesn't really have the power for an observational study of fish populations in the lake. Nobody is calling you a poor fisherman or stupid. Sometimes our assessments of a situation are not correct. People are just pointing out the other possible assessments or assumptions, they're all as valid as your own oppinion.

Actually, and maybe I read his post incorrectly, I though his post was about looking for help ie increasing his N.
After all in every real case of a possible collapse someone has to be the first to say hay I think something might be going on here even though they might not yet have achieved statistical significance.


I just hope it proves to be nothing significant.

[Brandonkop]

I have an N of 0 on Mcgregor lake... but N of thousands and my share of skunks in the bag to know you can't measure a lakes status by random fishing experience at a lake.

I look to resources that we actually have available to us. Like Alberta fall test netting results that are available to the public. For Mcgregor they have results published for fall 2008 and 2013. 123 whites in the sample in 2008 and 90 in 2013. When you look in the graph comparison in the 2013 report the difference does not really reach statistical significance.

In your initial comment you stated it has "been tougher the last few years". When someone says few years I generally think a three year period from present.

So here you have a study that shows that from 2008 to 2013 there has not been statistical significant population change, which also overlaps the period of time in which you have noticed the fishing becoming "tougher". The only assumption I gather from that is the fish are just not in your spot but still in the lake. Best of luck. I'm sure your a great fisherman, not trying to say you are like I said in my previous comment. It's your assessment that I think might be in error.

[Bigfeet]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

It's your assessment that I think might be in error.

Brandonkop,
I appreciate your reasoned response and certainly do hope that my assessment is in error, but I'm concerned that it is not. Pretty certain it is not a problem of the fish not being in my spot - I have fished many areas of the lake.
Just for comparison - ten years ago our catch rates would be 20 to 50 fish per day, per fisherman. I honestly didn't count, but my son did (for a while) and told me the numbers. I really didn't (and don't) care about the specific number of fish. So long as we were figuring them out, it is fun. Anywhere from 2 to 5 fish per hour was the norm. Now, the past few years (and I'm guessing at 6 or so), catch rates have been declining to where I got blanked this past trip. I hope you can see why I am concerned.

[kevinhits]

I will take an "N" please and also would like to buy a vowel

[Habfan]

I've been fishing this lake as well for 20 yrs and it is definitely on the decline for whitefish ! When I did target them I did well, but as years go by it was less and less ! When I would be trolling for walleyes I would see many schools of whites cruising the surface all over the lake ! Now few and far between ! They are not in the lake like they once were. Whites will cruise all over a lake, unlike other species that don't feed on bugs, so no, in the case of whites it's not 95% of fish in 5% of the water. If you don't fish the lake then don't comment ! We will see in about 5 yrs if the whites come back, that should be the fair amount of time to see a rise in populations, this is not a one year of no netting that will change things, it will take time !

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by anthony5

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with no rain or run off in the last 2 months The fish are not in the same spots as they normally would with these weather conditions. Can't blame the commercial fishermen any more.

No we can't, but do think 1 year is going to make a difference ? They put 37 million walleye fry in this lake 20 years ago with a promise to open it to retention when they become established ! It's still closed and do you think maybe all those eyes eating all those little whites might also be a factor ?

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Habfan

I've been fishing this lake as well for 20 yrs and it is definitely on the decline for whitefish ! When I did target them I did well, but as years go by it was less and less ! When I would be trolling for walleyes I would see many schools of whites cruising the surface all over the lake ! Now few and far between ! They are not in the lake like they once were. Whites will cruise all over a lake, unlike other species that don't feed on bugs, so no, in the case of whites it's not 95% of fish in 5% of the water. If you don't fish the lake then don't comment ! We will see in about 5 yrs if the whites come back, that should be the fair amount of time to see a rise in populations, this is not a one year of no netting that will change things, it will take time !

x2

Totally agree...I have been fishing mcgregor for 15 years now mainly because it is an hour drive from Calgary and have noted the decline in retention...I can only speak for pike and walleye as I only started fishing for whitefish the last couple of years. When I started years ago, I was catching fish regularily, but I could see the downturn over the past 5 years or even more.....My opinion only..since I was going out once a week for years

Take my information for what it is worth......

ie. smaller walleye were still producing in the canal during spring

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

Fish and Wildlife are enforcement and have squat to do with setting limits. Perhaps with tge end of netting there are thousands and thousands more fish pounds consuming much more of the available food source so they have had to spread out to more and different areas of the lake to find something to eat now that the commercial guys arent taking any out to spread out the population. In trouble? Highly doubt that. Maybe you need to start exploring new areas remember its called fishing not catching. I have a favourite sturgeon hole that has produced ten fish in one day previous years. This year Ive fished it several times with very limited success. Does that mean they are all fished out?

How are there thousands and thousands more fish after one year of netting being banned ? Is that what happened with the sturgeon after they closed it for retention ? How many years ago was that ? Cmon, man !!

[kevinhits]

Habfan....We gotta get out and master this lake....We have 35 years combined experience and need to tackle this issue...I gotta boat that have not got out this spring yet..LOL

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Habfan

How are there thousands and thousands more fish after one year of netting being banned ? Is that what happened with the sturgeon after they closed it for retention ? How many years ago was that ? Cmon, man !!

I agree...They just closed commercial fishing last year...I would assume at least a few years to see any difference...

[fish99]

Originally Posted by Habfan

No we can't, but do think 1 year is going to make a difference ? They put 37 million walleye fry in this lake 20 years ago with a promise to open it to retention when they become established ! It's still closed and do you think maybe all those eyes eating all those little whites might also be a factor ?

the whites and pike populations are defiantly impacted by the walleye stocking, check all the other lakes that were heavily stocked with walleye and you will find the same results.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Habfan

How are there thousands and thousands more fish after one year of netting being banned ? Is that what happened with the sturgeon after they closed it for retention ? How many years ago was that ? Cmon, man !!

Comparing the reproduction of sturgeon and whitefish? Sturg will take awhile, whites can rebound in as little as a few years.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by Habfan

How are there thousands and thousands more fish after one year of netting being banned ? Is that what happened with the sturgeon after they closed it for retention ? How many years ago was that ? Cmon, man !!

I said pounds

[Habfan]

Gotcha !

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Comparing the reproduction of sturgeon and whitefish? Sturg will take awhile, whites can rebound in as little as a few years.

So, 5 whitefish produce more eggs than 5 Sturgeon ? The conversation is about how depleted the whites are in McGregor !

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Habfan

So, 5 whitefish produce more eggs than 5 Sturgeon ? The conversation is about how depleted the whites are in McGregor !

Growth rates are a huge part. How long does it take for whites to reach maturity? Sturgeon? Google is your friend.....

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Growth rates are a huge part. How long does it take for whites to reach maturity? Sturgeon? Google is your friend.....

Is that not my point on the whites coming back ? Like I said in earlier post, it takes time for the population to come back. Reading the whole post is your friend.

[Talking moose]

Your prolly right.... I hate Google and whiskey is my friend tonight... Lol, carry on

[Habfan]

[QUOTE=Talking moose;2863379]Your prolly right.... I hate Google and whiskey is my friend tonight... Lol, I get a little annoyed when it comes to what this lake has become, and it a result of poor management, beer is my friend right now !! Rant over !

[Brandonkop]

Originally Posted by Habfan

I've been fishing this lake as well for 20 yrs and it is definitely on the decline for whitefish ! When I did target them I did well, but as years go by it was less and less ! When I would be trolling for walleyes I would see many schools of whites cruising the surface all over the lake ! Now few and far between ! They are not in the lake like they once were. Whites will cruise all over a lake, unlike other species that don't feed on bugs, so no, in the case of whites it's not 95% of fish in 5% of the water. If you don't fish the lake then don't comment ! We will see in about 5 yrs if the whites come back, that should be the fair amount of time to see a rise in populations, this is not a one year of no netting that will change things, it will take time !

I don't fish the lake but I feel my comment on the lakes test netting was the best data given yet on lake white populations in McGregor.

I guess I'm the only person who actually looks at, and values objective data. For anyone else who cares about actual data you can review this reference where I was getting my 2008 and 2013 information.
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx

[cube]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I don't fish the lake but I feel my comment on the lakes test netting was the best data given yet on lake white populations in McGregor.

I guess I'm the only person who actually looks at, and values objective data. For anyone else who cares about actual data you can review this reference where I was getting my 2008 and 2013 information.
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx

I too looked at that data the first day this thread was started. I guess I just came to the conclusion that I would give the OP the benefit of the doubt esp given that the data you quote above showed a 27% decline in white fish population as well as a 59% reduction in the pike population over that period of time. I under stand that you considered this "not statistical significant population change" but to me this indeed might show something going on. Given the decrease over this relatively short period of time and if we extrapolate that the extra 2 years we could now indeed be at statistical significance and I believe good on the OP to bring this to our/SRD's attention.

[mongo]

Originally Posted by Habfan

How are there thousands and thousands more fish after one year of netting being banned ? Is that what happened with the sturgeon after they closed it for retention ? How many years ago was that ? Cmon, man !!

In 2013 -14 the quota in mcgregor was 90,000 kg of white fish close to 200,000 lbs of white fish. At four pounds each that's 50,000 whites eating everything including lots of fry. 1,588 kg of pike also. 20 years ago the lake was a slough the water was in poor shape the whites were probably cruising the surface to find oxygen and stay alive and were very viable.

[Bigfeet]

I talked to another fisheries biologist with SRD this morning. He had heard of my concerns, so talked to the local F&W officer to see what he was seeing in checking anglers. Apparantly, a few people have been catching some Whitefish in deeper areas of the lake - that was good to hear. But, it doesn't sound like many people were finding Whitefish. It may be that, because of the conditions this year, the fish have moved to deeper water earlier than usual. However, early movements to deeper areas have occurred before, so it does not account for years of decline that I have noticed.

He (and the other biologist I spoke to) seemed genuinely concerned about what I have noticed, so at least the information has gotten to the right people. There likely is a reduction in Whitefish numbers in MacGregor, probably from a combination of the factors that have been brought up in this thread. I am hopeful that, with commercial fishing no longer allowed, the population will rebound in a few years. I am still concerned about the number of fish lost to the system because of the dam and canal work, and hope that doesn't continue. At least, rather than silently complain and worry about the resource, it has been brought to the attention of those who can look further for problems, and make changes, if need be.

[bsawchuk]

Our family has been fishing this lake for over 25 years and has usually been a steady lake for pike/walley. (don't fish for whites personally). One thing I have always learned is it can be very hit or miss. Some years we would go out and catch dozens of fish each day, others we would be lucky to hit a dozen combined all weekend. I haven't been much lately but I did notice a decline in number of fish once the dam opened into traver's. Its possible the fish could just be migrating south as they watch the geese to each year. My brother fishes Little Bow often and says the fishing there is great.

Hopefully it is just a slow year, as it has been a funny year weather wise, so that can have effect on the fish as well.

Haven't been in a few years but hopefully can make it out a time or 3 this summer.