This is what OHV users need to address...

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

No most are not out for any sort of wilderness experience. They could care less where they are, they would be just as happy riping around on the scrap concrete pile at Lafarge in west Edmonton or on the abandoned strip mines at Genessee and places like this, they only go out in the 'wilderness' because they are not allowed to rip and tear handier to the city.. The govt should use land like these mine sites and reclaim them for recreation purposes to make some awesome challenging areas for the quadders/bikers to go nutz on and keep them out of the woods and generate further revenue for the gov't. Could make some awesome gun ranges near the city on some of these properties that are leased by the crown to these corporations that they are done mining and sitting vacant and nobody is allowed to use them. They could be used to make wonderful campgrounds, fish ponds/lakes could be made, golf courses, equestern, hiking, bike paths, all sorts of outdoor recreation opportunities could be made available for next to nothing if the equipment used to mine the ground were required to place their tailings stragetically. There are massive amounts of land right on the Cities doorstep that could be used for recreation at mimimal cost to the taxpayer and take some of the pressure off of our wild places.

What a BS statement if I ever heard one. What makes you an expert to state that most OHV riders do not care about wilderness experience? Does not apply to ANYONE that I ride with, so your statement is just your opinion and not fact.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Sooner

How about enforcement in the woods and education at the dealers who sell the stuff of the rules. I'm a user(99% in the hunting season) and don't like where this is headed. I will be forced off my atv or at least see restricted use because of the rip and tear I don't care crowd.

Agreed. Education and enforcement.

maclean creek is now patrolled by Alberta parks. Not sure what they have done or do regarding ohv's, but there have been improvements to rampant shooting. They have closed several areas to shooting but left the ones they deem as safer. I think it's an improvement.

Some Calgary youngsters seem to use the Maclean creek area as some kind of anything goes country, and that just ain't the way life works in 2016.
Crown land belongs to all of us.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

No most are not out for any sort of wilderness experience. They could care less where they are, they would be just as happy riping around on the scrap concrete pile at Lafarge in west Edmonton or on the abandoned strip mines at Genessee and places like this, they only go out in the 'wilderness' because they are not allowed to rip and tear handier to the city.. The govt should use land like these mine sites and reclaim them for recreation purposes to make some awesome challenging areas for the quadders/bikers to go nutz on and keep them out of the woods and generate further revenue for the gov't. Could make some awesome gun ranges near the city on some of these properties that are leased by the crown to these corporations that they are done mining and sitting vacant and nobody is allowed to use them. They could be used to make wonderful campgrounds, fish ponds/lakes could be made, golf courses, equestern, hiking, bike paths, all sorts of outdoor recreation opportunities could be made available for next to nothing if the equipment used to mine the ground were required to place their tailings stragetically. There are massive amounts of land right on the Cities doorstep that could be used for recreation at mimimal cost to the taxpayer and take some of the pressure off of our wild places.

Wow...painting everyone with the same brush, aren't you.
This is like saying everyone who owns a firearm has the same mental attitude of the 20 something tool with an SKS who only wants to see how much lead he can put downrange.
I wouldn't even paint all SKS owners with this brush.

[honda450]

There is no enforcement of existing rules and laws...........basically nil. Lack of personnel?

What good is more laws going to do...........besides nothing.


When I see someone disobey the rules or not where to quad I tell them if I can. ....I get the finger or they me to go f myself.

Some are not aware.........some are.

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Tire size and tread depth?? Then you would conceivable have twice the spinning and have to hit stuff harder to get through. What is the point of having an all terrain machine that can't go anywhere?

There are places where people can rip and tear to their hearts content. Designated trails full of mud and holes. In many places you don't (can't) go very far without a trail that's been cut.

There's a not so fine line between conservatism and being some puritanical old ladies about this.

Most of the people that post that Facebook crap, cherry pick and pay no attention to the groups who go out and clean up the back country. Most of those basket weavers you won't even see back there. Never mind cleaning up.

I'd have to firmly disagree with you. Spinning is generally not the major problem. Digging holes and ruts are. A trails tire has a soft carcass with flexible, short knobs. It grips, until it slides. When it slides it has little grip, but also doesn't dig holes or ruts. Idaho trail builders and maintainers are pushing for motorcycles to only use trials tires. These are guys spending 100's of hours in the bush a year maintaining the trails. I have to ask, how many hours did you spend last year improving trail structure and sustainability?

If the same can be applied to OHV's running 30" tires, 3" lugs, lift kit, and snorkels, I'm all for it.

You are very much incorrect when you say designated trails allow this type of behaviour. No matter the trail, wear and tear on the environment should be minimized. Enjoy it, responsibly.

That's why I meantioned that motorcycles not exceed their ability on a trail. A rider struggling will cause 10x the damage of a rider capable of riding these trials. Root sections become undercut, hill climbs become destroyed, and logs all get dug out. Logs are left certain trails for a reason.

OHV's need to stay on their designated trails. Motorcyclists are installing width control devices or routing trails through thick trees to prevent ATV's from cutting out trails out making them double track.

These are all responsibile behaviours for sustaining trials. We ALL need to apply them. Having an attitude like yours IS the problem.

[Headwaters]

anyone who shoots signs is not a legitimate gun owner. They are irresponsible vandals. The rest of us who shoot responsibly are legitimate gun owners.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Wow...painting everyone with the same brush, aren't you.
This is like saying everyone who owns a firearm has the same mental attitude of the 20 something tool with an SKS who only wants to see how much lead he can put downrange.
I wouldn't even paint all SKS owners with this brush.

Haha, you just did... I mean paint all SKS owners with the same brush. But then most stereo types are pretty accurate.

So your saying Quads advertised as rip and tear high performance machines designed to rip and tear, quads with aftermarket performance goodies, loud pipes, snorkels, etc are purchased by elderly gentlemen who like to idle quietly down the trails after Sunday church service. Just like SKS's are purchased by people who only single load one shot at a time.......

People buy products to use as designed and to use them as they are advertised and marketed. Rarely do you see Amped up off road machines being driven by little old ladies, every Amped up quad I've ever seen in the bush has been driven as advertised. Much like automobiles would be driven on our roads if we didn't have rules, speed limits, police, photo radar and enforcement to keep some semblance of order on the roads. We have a situation where it is total anarchy out in the woods when it comes to quadding, while not everybody is an abuser, the abusers pretty much have carte blanche to abuse without repercussion and are encouraged to do so by manufacturer advertising, peer pressure and by the absence of repercussion for those acts. Add testosterone overload and attitude by most of the users these manufacturers have successfully targeted with these crazy over the top machines, the damage done by just one of these alpha trail monsters and their machine overshadows by several magnitudes any thing constructive done by the supposed vast majority of users who apathetically watch it happen.

If the abusers are such a small minority as everyone likes to say(personally I believe they represent a fair share more than a small minority) why is there so much damage? Why is the damage increasing? And why is it so hard to rein them in and educate them?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Headwaters

anyone who shoots signs is not a legitimate gun owner. They are irresponsible vandals. The rest of us who shoot responsibly are legitimate gun owners.

And isnt this the exact same argument that quad owners have? See where this goes?

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by Headwaters

anyone who shoots signs is not a legitimate gun owner. They are irresponsible vandals. The rest of us who shoot responsibly are legitimate gun owners.

Everyone has shot signs . Is it right nope. Were we all 18 once -yup.

Jeez this thread. 1st world problems. My heart is bleeding.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Quinn

I'd have to firmly disagree with you. Spinning is generally not the major problem. Digging holes and ruts are. A trails tire has a soft carcass with flexible, short knobs. It grips, until it slides. When it slides it has little grip, but also doesn't dig holes or ruts. Idaho trail builders and maintainers are pushing for motorcycles to only use trials tires. These are guys spending 100's of hours in the bush a year maintaining the trails. I have to ask, how many hours did you spend last year improving trail structure and sustainability?

If the same can be applied to OHV's running 30" tires, 3" lugs, lift kit, and snorkels, I'm all for it.

You are very much incorrect when you say designated trails allow this type of behaviour. No matter the trail, wear and tear on the environment should be minimized. Enjoy it, responsibly.

That's why I meantioned that motorcycles not exceed their ability on a trail. A rider struggling will cause 10x the damage of a rider capable of riding these trials. Root sections become undercut, hill climbs become destroyed, and logs all get dug out. Logs are left certain trails for a reason.

OHV's need to stay on their designated trails. Motorcyclists are installing width control devices or routing trails through thick trees to prevent ATV's from cutting out trails out making them double track.

These are all responsibile behaviours for sustaining trials. We ALL need to apply them. Having an attitude like yours IS the problem.

Snap out of it. Drive a truck on grass with mud tires without spinning. Now rev the snot out a front wheel drive car on the same grass. Tell me which does more damage.

And I have spent time cleaning up the outdoors. Do you? Don't tell me I'm the problem.

And last time I checked, the trails around here don't have grass growing on them. Is digging a hole in dirt wrecking the habitat? If that's the case, keep your boat at home, because making waves is wrecking the lake. Park the car, wearing down the pavement is wrecking nature.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Everyone has shot signs . Is it right nope. Were we all 18 once -yup.

For real? Or are you trying to brush off, dismiss and justify all the sign shooting you have done as some sort of right of passage for 18 year olds or something. What else have you shot up?

A common tactic used by those who abuse most anything is justifying it by saying everybody else does it too.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Everyone has shot signs . Is it right nope. Were we all 18 once -yup.

Jeez this thread. 1st world problems. My heart is bleeding.

Nope, never have, never will. Sorry for the derail. Back on topic.

[fainthopeacres]

This is why I ride my atv - yeah I'm slow and I've had testosterone filled jerks blow by me shooting rocks/dust up at me and I've been given the finger as well. But not all of us are out there wreaking havoc! All of these photos I have taken from my quad with my cannon camera and this is just a small handful of pics I have taken over the years. Those speed demons miss all of this and you sure won't see anything at the speeds some of these folks seem to think they need to go. This is why I enjoy riding my atv

[bat119]

My first quad was 1988 Suzuki 250 with flotation tires it only had 8" ground clearance the little sucker went everywhere pulled moose, its was the cats meow back then.
Along came the evolution of the quad bigger, stronger, higher, faster the list goes on. The old quads could no longer get down the trails we used too, needed bigger quads then bigger tires to get through the ruts left by the 1000 cc 35" tires. There were trails we used to walk down in the morning for miles, now you would twist an ankle in the holes left by the quads. I have a 550 cc quad with executioner tires on it only because its the only way I can get past the holes left in the trails. Now I'm part of the problem too

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by bat119

My first quad was 1988 Suzuki 250 with flotation tires it only had 8" ground clearance the little sucker went everywhere pulled moose, its was the cats meow back then.
Along came the evolution of the quad bigger, stronger, higher, faster the list goes on. The old quads could no longer get down the trails we used too, needed bigger quads then bigger tires to get through the ruts left by the 1000 cc 35" tires. There were trails we used to walk down in the morning for miles, now you would twist an ankle in the holes left by the quads. I have a 550 cc quad with executioner tires on it only because its the only way I can get past the holes left in the trails. Now I'm part of the problem too

there's some truth to this ..although , I don't travel the deep trail ruts and still haven't put the 30 in tires with 4 in lugs on ... last year I maybe rode a grand total of 25 klm on the quad ..I use it for animal retrieval mainly .... used to ride just for the fun of it but found what you're talking about and it's a pain forsure .....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

For real? Or are you trying to brush off, dismiss and justify all the sign shooting you have done as some sort of right of passage for 18 year olds or something. What else have you shot up?

A common tactic used by those who abuse most anything is justifying it by saying everybody else does it too.

+1

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by bat119

My first quad was 1988 Suzuki 250 with flotation tires it only had 8" ground clearance the little sucker went everywhere pulled moose, its was the cats meow back then.
Along came the evolution of the quad bigger, stronger, higher, faster the list goes on. The old quads could no longer get down the trails we used too, needed bigger quads then bigger tires to get through the ruts left by the 1000 cc 35" tires. There were trails we used to walk down in the morning for miles, now you would twist an ankle in the holes left by the quads. I have a 550 cc quad with executioner tires on it only because its the only way I can get past the holes left in the trails. Now I'm part of the problem too

Have you actually ridden with or come across anyone running 35" tires? I sure haven't and I ride with a fairly large group. No one there runs anything past the 30" stock mudders and at that there is I think one maybe two. You see the 35's in plenty of after market supplier sites and mags. From what I hear many of those extreme machines are nothing more then parking lot princesses all done up for show.

I recently replaced my stock 26" tires that had about 4K on them with another set of 26" that won't void my warranty. I get everywhere I want to go.

[slickwilly]

I've spent a lot of time driving up and down the trail on a plain-jane quad (Foreman 500's) doing my damnest not to chew up the trail and then get stuck. My experience tells me it doesn't matter what kind it is, or if you want to rip it up or not, get a little water and enough trips in, and it turns into a chewed-up disaster.

I believe that most people are good folks who don't want to do damage, but there are enough people now that it is gonna happen no matter what.

[sparky660]

Originally Posted by avb3

A new facebook page has been set up to document destruction in the east slopes. Some of the pictures are horrific, and if OHV owners do not find a way to police their own ranks, I suspect that regulations and restrictions will be legislated. As usual, it is the few that paint all the same, however, in public policy, perception is reality.



https://www.facebook.com/DATEdamagedalbertaterrain/

I understand the concern but there are bigger fish to fry. Just watch Yukon gold every week. What they do in a day outweighs what atv'ers do in a year.......

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Everyone has shot signs . Is it right nope. Were we all 18 once -yup.

Jeez this thread. 1st world problems. My heart is bleeding.

Originally Posted by Bushrat

For real? Or are you trying to brush off, dismiss and justify all the sign shooting you have done as some sort of right of passage for 18 year olds or something. What else have you shot up?

A common tactic used by those who abuse most anything is justifying it by saying everybody else does it too.

Originally Posted by Sooner

Nope, never have, never will. Sorry for the derail. Back on topic.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

+1

Okay, guys. He said he was in the wrong already; no need to dogpile.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

I've spent a lot of time driving up and down the trail on a plain-jane quad (Foreman 500's) doing my damnest not to chew up the trail and then get stuck. My experience tells me it doesn't matter what kind it is, or if you want to rip it up or not, get a little water and enough trips in, and it turns into a chewed-up disaster.

I believe that most people are good folks who don't want to do damage, but there are enough people now that it is gonna happen no matter what.

For sure. Nice dry conditions and decently hard ground, it's hard to tell that something has even been there.

But throw in some water and a hundred machines and it will rip stuff up. A couple of the main trails are a mud pit, but quite a few of the out of the way spots look like they hardly see a machine.

Not really that many miles of off road trail out there in the grand scheme of things, as long as people stay out of sensitive areas. I am a little surprised that greeniacs don't get excited about miles of seismic trails, power lines and roads.

Don't get me wrong, I think that a lot of riders could do a little better. I guess I'm fortunate that I'm not seeing a lot of destruction, or maybe I'm not out enough? I get pretty burnt up seeing a chip bag and cigarette boxes miles from anywhere.

[lead chucker]

Originally Posted by honda450

There is no enforcement of existing rules and laws...........basically nil. Lack of personnel?

What good is more laws going to do...........besides nothing.


When I see someone disobey the rules or not where to quad I tell them if I can. ....I get the finger or they me to go f myself.

Some are not aware.........some are.

I agree totally. This is the same response I get every time I'm back there.nothing but a f×÷k you and the finger and on their way..400 is getting to be a zoo ( especially from non locals) that show up on the weekend and don't give a f×÷k....sorry to say it but I truly believe that the majority of the people back there could care less about environment and rules because they know there's no enforcement and they don't have to see the damage on a day to day basis.no wonder the environmentalists keep pushing.we're are own worst enemy....tell me I'm wrong?

[rugatika]

Everyone wants their own private slice of "public" land.

[avb3]

Some of the concerns are one sees are best expressed here:

https://vimeo.com/151211424

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by JDK71

Wow people just don't care I love to quad but if this is what people think is ok to do then let the chip fall where they may. Just sick to see

Agreed, this is exactly what happens when the public is out and about so to counter that laws, rules and regulations are put in place, then people complain hmmm wonder why?

Oh yeah forgot to mention the garbage people leave behind too