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12-10-2016, 03:16 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 307
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HOW DOES A 20 CAL RIFLE COMPARE to a 223?
I've been giving some thought to getting a 20 cal rifle. Yes, I know there are quite a few variations available but I'll get to that later.
I love to shoot gophers and prairie dogs at long range. I have a 223, a 22-250 and for longer ranges a 6 BR and a 6.5 Lapua.
So, I have to ask myself do I really need yet another varmint rig? The lighter bullets in the 20 cal means less recoil and less muzzle blast which adds up when shooting 200 to 300 rounds in a day. On the other hand I can shoot 40 grain bullets out of my 223 or go hog wild and shoot them out of the 22-250.
I'm sure the 20 cal has less effective range compared to a 223, but how much less?
I'm certainly not the first shooter to raise this question. So I ask my fellow AO's---what is your experience and advice?
Bill
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12-10-2016, 03:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,672
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Never had an issue shooting gophers with a .22, and keeping a .223 on hand for the real long shots.
Have no idea how they compare because I have never looked to improve on that particular mouse trap!
Next......
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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12-10-2016, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,477
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The effective range is at least 400 to 500 yards if you use bullets like the 39gr Blitzking. It has a B.C. that is quite close to the .224" 69gr Matchking, and with comparable capacity cases, you can drive the lighter .20 caliber bullets faster. For 200 to 300 yard shots, I prefer the 17 hornet to either the .20 or .22 cal cartridges. because using only 9.5gr of powder, the barrel doesn't heat up nearly as quickly as with the larger calibers.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-10-2016, 04:23 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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It's been my experience that performance falls off in windy conditions. compared to the 223 or 22.250
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I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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12-10-2016, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,708
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Elk would know
My wife prefers the .204 over any thing else in the house. No recoil, lots of range and her best shot so far is a coyote off the front porch at 375 yards.
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"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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12-10-2016, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,477
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You can compare the wind drift with some bullet weights below, but in general, if the B.C. is similar, and the velocity is similar, then the wind drift is similar as well.
http://www.6mmbr.com/20caliber.html
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 12-10-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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12-10-2016, 07:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: East
Posts: 2,073
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the best part i found about hunting varmints with a 20 cal is the fact that i can spot my own hits/misses. i have found the real world wind drift effects to be not bad at all. if its too windy for the round to be effective its too windy to be out hunting gophers in the first place. with some good dust to be able to spot misses i have found mine (20 practical) to be effective out to 500 yards. i will repeat myself in saying the ability to watch through the scope is awesome. sure your 22-250 can do this but you wont get to see it.
__________________
HOLD ON FUR!
For my coyote pics @trophy_country_coyotes on instagram
life's too short to fish nymphs
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12-10-2016, 08:44 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
Posts: 1,317
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full penetration on that shot....:-)
bullet, load and range please.....just for interest's sake.
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12-10-2016, 08:55 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka250
the best part i found about hunting varmints with a 20 cal is the fact that i can spot my own hits/misses. i have found the real world wind drift effects to be not bad at all. if its too windy for the round to be effective its too windy to be out hunting gophers in the first place. with some good dust to be able to spot misses i have found mine (20 practical) to be effective out to 500 yards. i will repeat myself in saying the ability to watch through the scope is awesome. sure your 22-250 can do this but you wont get to see it.
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WOW Looks like a nasty sewing job to me.LOL
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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12-10-2016, 09:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 1,706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka250
the best part i found about hunting varmints with a 20 cal is the fact that i can spot my own hits/misses. i have found the real world wind drift effects to be not bad at all. if its too windy for the round to be effective its too windy to be out hunting gophers in the first place. with some good dust to be able to spot misses i have found mine (20 practical) to be effective out to 500 yards. i will repeat myself in saying the ability to watch through the scope is awesome. sure your 22-250 can do this but you wont get to see it.
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To that Pic:WOW! How far was that?
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12-10-2016, 09:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: East
Posts: 2,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rembo
full penetration on that shot....:-)
bullet, load and range please.....just for interest's sake.
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that would be a 40 gr vmax propelled by 21gr of 4198 out of my 20 practical going 3650 fps at roughly 100 yards. the shooting was so good that day that i ended up screwing around with my camera. most impressive part is that i was shooting and taking pictures at the same time haha.
__________________
HOLD ON FUR!
For my coyote pics @trophy_country_coyotes on instagram
life's too short to fish nymphs
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12-10-2016, 11:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary Area
Posts: 2,423
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Found this to be helpful
this is an article that compares the .20 cal to the .22 cals
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartr...des/20caliber/
I shoot a .204 and love it.
This sums up the article
Treatise for Twenties by Kory Hamzeh, 6mmBR.com 20 Caliber Editor
Why are folks turning to the “Terrific Twenties”? Among the most important reasons are: low recoil, high velocity, low noise, reduced cost, longer barrel life, and better ballistics for a given bullet weight. In short, compared to a .223 Rem, a Twenty shoots flatter, costs less to shoot, and is easier on the shooter’s shoulder and his barrel.
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12-11-2016, 05:14 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,258
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I have a .20 Tactical that I've had since before the .204 Ruger was introduced. It's a great cartridge and a real joy to shoot. If you are building one I would suggest you consider a faster twist (9.0) to accommodate the 50 grain pills. Long Range Wonder !
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
Last edited by Salavee; 12-11-2016 at 05:24 AM.
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12-11-2016, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ft. Saskatchewan, AB
Posts: 498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg
this is an article that compares the .20 cal to the .22 cals
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartr...des/20caliber/
I shoot a .204 and love it.
This sums up the article
Treatise for Twenties by Kory Hamzeh, 6mmBR.com 20 Caliber Editor
Why are folks turning to the “Terrific Twenties”? Among the most important reasons are: low recoil, high velocity, low noise, reduced cost, longer barrel life, and better ballistics for a given bullet weight. In short, compared to a .223 Rem, a Twenty shoots flatter, costs less to shoot, and is easier on the shooter’s shoulder and his barrel.
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X 2. The 20's are loads of fun. I have three 204's and they are awesome in the gopher patch and for whacking song dogs. I just wish the factory barrels were 11 or 10 twist as the 12 twist is just on the edge of stability for the 40 grain pills.
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Aim Small Miss Small
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12-11-2016, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 307
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20 Cal Rifles
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg
this is an article that compares the .20 cal to the .22 cals
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartr...des/20caliber/
I shoot a .204 and love it.
This sums up the article
Treatise for Twenties by Kory Hamzeh, 6mmBR.com 20 Caliber Editor
Why are folks turning to the “Terrific Twenties”? Among the most important reasons are: low recoil, high velocity, low noise, reduced cost, longer barrel life, and better ballistics for a given bullet weight. In short, compared to a .223 Rem, a Twenty shoots flatter, costs less to shoot, and is easier on the shooter’s shoulder and his barrel.
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This is a great article.
Thanks for sharing.
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12-11-2016, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 307
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20 Cal Riles
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill
To that Pic:WOW! How far was that?
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Impressive shot and incredible action pic. Can't wait for spring weather and gophers!!!
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12-11-2016, 10:50 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,477
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Not quite as dramatic, shot at 200 yards, with the 32gr Blitzking leaving the muzzle at 3650fps.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-11-2016, 12:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg
this is an article that compares the .20 cal to the .22 cals
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartr...des/20caliber/
I shoot a .204 and love it.
This sums up the article
Treatise for Twenties by Kory Hamzeh, 6mmBR.com 20 Caliber Editor
Why are folks turning to the “Terrific Twenties”? Among the most important reasons are: low recoil, high velocity, low noise, reduced cost, longer barrel life, and better ballistics for a given bullet weight. In short, compared to a .223 Rem, a Twenty shoots flatter, costs less to shoot, and is easier on the shooter’s shoulder and his barrel.
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Be careful with loads posted on the link to Warren's loads for the 20 Practical. What he calls his light gopher load, 21.4- H4198 with the 32 VMax @ 4025 was anything but that in my rifle. Cool Day at 14 Celsius and wrecked the primer pockets at 4260 over the MagnetoSpeed. I prefer the light gopher load, on the right that is safe and shoots good in all rifles. Still safe in my rifle at 20.8 grains on a hot day and likely the same velocity as the 20 Practical with a safe load.
[IMG] [/IMG]
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12-11-2016, 02:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nacmine
Posts: 2,286
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You could contact rembo. He just so happens to have a real nice little Sako in 20 Extreme for sale.
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Proud To Be A Volunteer Fire Fighter.
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12-11-2016, 04:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow Town Bill
I've been giving some thought to getting a 20 cal rifle. Yes, I know there are quite a few variations available but I'll get to that later.
I love to shoot gophers and prairie dogs at long range. I have a 223, a 22-250 and for longer ranges a 6 BR and a 6.5 Lapua.
So, I have to ask myself do I really need yet another varmint rig? The lighter bullets in the 20 cal means less recoil and less muzzle blast which adds up when shooting 200 to 300 rounds in a day. On the other hand I can shoot 40 grain bullets out of my 223 or go hog wild and shoot them out of the 22-250.
I'm sure the 20 cal has less effective range compared to a 223, but how much less?
I'm certainly not the first shooter to raise this question. So I ask my fellow AO's---what is your experience and advice?
Bill
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A 40 grain V-Max starting at 3470 fps has the same trajectory and less wind age to 500 yards. The energy is down a bit but not if you push the 39/40 grain bullets to 3600+ fps. So the question should be, " How much less does a 40 grain bullet drop and drift in a 20 caliber and how much more energy does it have at 500 yards than a 40 grain bullet in 223?
Do a 20 Extreme in a 9 twist barrel and it will run 32 grain bullets from 3800 to over 4000 fps. The 39/ 40 grain bullets will shoot bugholes at 3450 t0 3700 fps and at the slower velocities the low pressures do not heat up barrels very quickly or stretch brass. If you want to run more energy and less drift than a 223 or 22-250, at 500 yards, use much less powder to do it a 55 Berger will do the trick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lclund1946
The 55 Berger in at 3060 is has more energy and drifts less in the wind than a factory Hornady 55 V-Max in a 22-250. However it has similar energy at the muzzle as the 22-250 at 150 yards which makes it much more fur friendly. As well much less powder is required to do the job.
[IMG] [/IMG]
20 Extreme fits in a standard 2.26" magazine and will run 3060 to 3200+ fps, in a 24" barrel, with 22.0 grains of powder and stabilizes with an 9" Twist.
[IMG] [/IMG]
20 Practical with 24" barrel and 23.5 grains of powder will stabilize with a 10" twist.
[IMG] [/IMG]
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12-11-2016, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,798
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20 EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"I don't know about the "shooting Savages" part. I have one and I have had considerable difficulty doing well with it. Part of the reason for this is that I feel a need to put bag over my head to hide my identity when ever I am shooting it!"
Leeper
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12-11-2016, 08:18 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4
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I couldn't be happier with my 20 Tac. Shoots flatter and kicks less than a 223.
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12-11-2016, 10:02 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Athabasca
Posts: 415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44
My wife prefers the .204 over any thing else in the house. No recoil, lots of range and her best shot so far is a coyote off the front porch at 375 yards.
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After a lot of forums and talking to ppl about the .204 .223 and .22-250 who had owned different guns I purchased a Tikka T3 in .204, and with factory Hornady Varmint 32gr. superformance you can't go wrong. If you have never played with a .204 borrow a buddies and get ready for a ton o fun. With such light recoil, I have had everyone from 5 - 65 yrs old shoot it and everyone loves it. At 4225fps the bullet travels 400 yards real fast. My personal observation is the wind doesn't effect it as much as most ppl worry about. (Especially out to 400 yrds) I have shot a few calibres in my day and will always be a .204 fan😍
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12-12-2016, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Drayton Valley
Posts: 1,263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmcleod82
20 EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Where's the like button? Seriously, nice looking rifle there. Good job love the cerakote.
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12-12-2016, 08:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,798
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Hoping I will be able to chime in on the terminal ballistics with the extreme soon gotta get out and call a few coyotes. It is a fair bit quieter than a 223.
__________________
"I don't know about the "shooting Savages" part. I have one and I have had considerable difficulty doing well with it. Part of the reason for this is that I feel a need to put bag over my head to hide my identity when ever I am shooting it!"
Leeper
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12-12-2016, 08:11 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
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Blasted at least 3 gophers before and being an esteemed forum member I say it really doesn’t matter that much.
Butt…
22 hornet and fireball are king!
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12-12-2016, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,798
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I've never seen a finer display of offhand marksmanship with the shoulder shot on that gopher.
__________________
"I don't know about the "shooting Savages" part. I have one and I have had considerable difficulty doing well with it. Part of the reason for this is that I feel a need to put bag over my head to hide my identity when ever I am shooting it!"
Leeper
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12-12-2016, 12:21 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nacmine
Posts: 2,286
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Love your little hornet gopher. I hope to find one just like it myself.
__________________
Proud To Be A Volunteer Fire Fighter.
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12-12-2016, 12:26 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
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Great pictures, especially Tikka 250's explosive 40 V-Max. I got some pictures of gophers shot with a 32 V-Max at about 3800 fps from the muzzle.
Close range that I call bits and pieces:
[IMG] [/IMG]
.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]
200 Yards:
[IMG] [/IMG]
200 yards poked his head out to see what happened to buddy.
[IMG] [/IMG]
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12-12-2016, 12:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchardy1972
Love your little hornet gopher. I hope to find one just like it myself.
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Thanks TC
Recently came upon a win 1885 22RF hi grade
Should maybe have some pics in the spring of it.
Last edited by gopher; 12-12-2016 at 12:52 PM.
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