So.... Are vaccinations safe..?

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Mercury is hazardous waste. Here's guidelines for Thimerosal handling and management from South Dakota Department of Environment & Natural Resources

https://denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/documents/Thimerosal.pdf


And read the MSDS for Thimerosal. easy to find it online.

Nothing mentioned about evacuation and hazmat teams in your link. Try again.

I've worked with mercury in its straight form for decades. As in all things the poison is in the dose.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

We are going to concentrate on this - and lets look at where the FDA got it's numbers. This is the study the FDA cites (from 2001) - yes, it's sitting on wikileaks but it is valid - and has been since updated in 2011. Click on the link, scroll down to Figure 1, and here's the quote.

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/attach...ccinations.PDF



Add up the numbers on the high side - my math gives me 4.15 mg. Now reread the quote - Table 1 is a simplified schedule. See the issue here? And that's just one item that can be garnered from the article.

And if you do feel like reading, look at number 4 - Toxicity summary.

Thanks


I read the conclusions of the study you presented.

Those injections may produce localized reactions without systemic impact.

So no systemic impact. No impact on the body. So at the concentrations expected...no impact on the body...and this took into account other aluminum inputs such as diet and medications.

Great news. Should make you feel much better.

Next concern?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Nothing mentioned about evacuation and hazmat teams in your link. Try again.

I've worked with mercury in its straight form for decades. As in all things the poison is in the dose.

Never said it required a hazmat team. It's treated as a hazardous material.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Never said it required a hazmat team. It's treated as a hazardous material.

No. The other poster I responded to did. Keep the arguments straight.😜

Cyanide is hazardous. But not in small doses.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Mercury is hazardous waste. Here's guidelines for Thimerosal handling and management from South Dakota Department of Environment & Natural Resources

https://denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/documents/Thimerosal.pdf


And read the MSDS for Thimerosal. easy to find it online.

Stop dwelling. You already agreed it is not an issue. Just because Roman god Mercury wore Talaria doesn't mean you need to keep flying back to mercury.

Focus. Focus. Focus.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by sjemac

No. The other poster I responded to did. Keep the arguments straight.😜

Cyanide is hazardous. But not in small doses.

Release a small amount of cyanide into a gymnasium full of people, I wouldn't be too worried. Release a small amount up your nose and inhale - then we'll talk.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sjemac

No. The other poster I responded to did. Keep the arguments straight.😜

Cyanide is hazardous. But not in small doses.

So is Warfarin.

Back to aluminum.


Tested safe in vaccine dosage.

https://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodva.../ucm284520.htm

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Mercury is hazardous waste. Here's guidelines for Thimerosal handling and management from South Dakota Department of Environment & Natural Resources

https://denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/documents/Thimerosal.pdf


And read the MSDS for Thimerosal. easy to find it online.

You sure are a effen broken record aren't ya?

Single shingle, broken one at that. Only thing you have to hang on to and it is pathetic.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Release a small amount of cyanide into a gymnasium full of people, I wouldn't be too worried. Release a small amount up your nose and inhale - then we'll talk.

A tested and safe small amount of aluminum in vaccinations that protects from death from many many diseases is far different than cyanide.

But ok.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Release a small amount of cyanide into a gymnasium full of people, I wouldn't be too worried. Release a small amount up your nose and inhale - then we'll talk.

Depends on how small. We ingest small amounts of cyanide every day without ill effect

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Stop dwelling. You already agreed it is not an issue. Just because Roman god Mercury wore Talaria doesn't mean you need to keep flying back to mercury.

Focus. Focus. Focus.

I agree it's not an issue? Where?

Thimerosal is still being used in specific vaccines in both US and Canada - you do get that correct? It is still widely used world wide.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

I agree it's not an issue? Where?

Thimerosal is still being used in specific vaccines in both US and Canada - you do get that correct? It is still widely used world wide.

Thimerosal is a red herring by the anti vaxxers.

Only pulled because of hysteria. It has been posted over and over and over. You just can't accept it. How deep are those finger nail prints on that little shingle of yours?

How many times do you have to be proved wrong before you pack it in? 10, 20, 50?

No matter how many times you keep saying thimerosal it won't be in vaccines in Canada for children.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

I agree it's not an issue? Where?

Thimerosal is still being used in specific vaccines in both US and Canada - you do get that correct? It is still widely used world wide.

Only found in some flu vaccines. You admit that also. Plus you can select up the flu vaccine without.

So stop dwelling. Mercury is not a vaccine issue in Canada.

Double

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Only found in some flu vaccines. You admit that also. Plus you can select up the flu vaccine without.

So stop dwelling. Mercury is not a vaccine issue in Canada.

Double

Ok. Did I say this is a Canadian problem? Was this thread on Canada or USA only? Japan, Sweden, UK are off the charts with developmental disabilities - far exceeding that of Canada and the US.

Mercury? All mercury is toxic my friend. ethyl and methyl is the difference between organic and non-organic. Tell you what, take a multidose h1n1 vaccine, pour it in your morning coffee. Then come back and talk to me.

Back in 1929, they didn't know what the effects of mercury were - today they still don't but for the WHO to claim that mercury isn't toxic in vaccinations? Heck, they didn't know what the effects of lead were to be honest, they still aren't sure.

This whole thread was to make people go "I wonder", or what are the chances. For people to read, make their own assessments and make an educated decision? That's a win.

But, it's the same old crowd chirping the same old song.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Ok. Did I say this is a Canadian problem? Was this thread on Canada or USA only? Japan, Sweden, UK are off the charts with developmental disabilities - far exceeding that of Canada and the US.

Mercury? All mercury is toxic my friend. ethyl and methyl is the difference between organic and non-organic. Tell you what, take a multidose h1n1 vaccine, pour it in your morning coffee. Then come back and talk to me.

Back in 1929, they didn't know what the effects of mercury were - today they still don't but for the WHO to claim that mercury isn't toxic in vaccinations? Heck, they didn't know what the effects of lead were to be honest, they still aren't sure.

This whole thread was to make people go "I wonder", or what are the chances. For people to read, make their own assessments and make an educated decision? That's a win.

But, it's the same old crowd chirping the same old song.

So then. Vaccines in Canada are safe right?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by sjemac

So then. Vaccines in Canada are safe right?

you figure it out. All heavy metals - mercury, lead, cadmium, aluminium, and arsenic - are toxic.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

you figure it out. All heavy metals - mercury, lead, cadmium, aluminium, and arsenic - are toxic.

But not always in their compound form. Arsenides being a case in point.

No one is ingesting those heavy metals in their pure form, but in their compound form. Compounds as you know behave very differently from the pure elements. You can ingest sodium chloride quite innocently. Try taking sodium or chlorine by themselves however and you can guess the results. A lot of the fear around vaccines seems to stem from a basic misunderstanding of chemistry.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by sjemac

But not always in their compound form. Arsenides being a case in point.

No one is ingesting those heavy metals in their pure form, but in their compound form. Compounds as you know behave very differently from the pure elements. You can ingest sodium chloride quite innocently. Try taking sodium or chlorine by themselves however and you can guess the results. A lot of the fear around vaccines seems to stem from a basic misunderstanding of chemistry.

Geesus, mercury in ANY compound is toxic. How are you trying to slice and dice this?

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Geesus, mercury in ANY compound is toxic. How are you trying to slice and dice this?

Technically yes. Practically no (depending on the compound). Just like arsenic.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Geesus, mercury in ANY compound is toxic. How are you trying to slice and dice this?

So mercury not a problem in Canada. Great.

So your study and mine says aluminum additive is safe. Great.

You're not concerned now with Canada but rather the rest of the World. Admirable.

Back to fly tying.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

So mercury not a problem in Canada. Great.

So your study and mine says aluminum additive is safe. Great.

You're not concerned now with Canada but rather the rest of the World. Admirable.

Back to fly tying.

You on the booze tonite? Have one for me would you?

We have a history of knowing products are not safe - but don't put the ban on them.

Asbestos was commonly used for insulation, and was known to be safe. It wasn't until the 1930s that German doctors started ringing alarm bells over asbestos cancer, but the rest of the world didn't want to accept it. Now we know differently - but it's still not banned in either the US or Canada 80 odd years later, still many products that contain it. 60 countries have banned asbestos completely. I wonder how many mechanics deal directly with clutch plates and brakes that has asbestos in them - and didn't think about it. And Canada is only looking at it now?

Lead. Alot of my research time is on the history of cast iron in Canada - specifically stoves and hollow ware. I'm realizing how dangerous some of this old cast is. Have a couple of old cast iron pots from the 1800's, once cleaned it revealed lead throughout the surface - someone had actually used it as a crucible at some point. The lead was seasoned over, and used for cooking. Would you use it for cooking. Now we know about lead poisoning, back in the 1800's, they didn't.


Take it for what it is... I suspect a bombshell cometh.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

You on the booze tonite? Have one for me would you?

We have a history of knowing products are not safe - but don't put the ban on them.

Asbestos was commonly used for insulation, and was known to be safe. It wasn't until the 1930s that German doctors started ringing alarm bells over asbestos cancer, but the rest of the world didn't want to accept it. Now we know differently - but it's still not banned in either the US or Canada 80 odd years later, still many products that contain it. 60 countries have banned asbestos completely. I wonder how many mechanics deal directly with clutch plates and brakes that has asbestos in them - and didn't think about it. And Canada is only looking at it now?

Lead. Alot of my research time is on the history of cast iron in Canada - specifically stoves and hollow ware. I'm realizing how dangerous some of this old cast is. Have a couple of old cast iron pots from the 1800's, once cleaned it revealed lead throughout the surface - someone had actually used it as a crucible at some point. The lead was seasoned over, and used for cooking. Would you use it for cooking. Now we know about lead poisoning, back in the 1800's, they didn't.


Take it for what it is... I suspect a bombshell cometh.

No lead and asbestos in vaccines.

Canada's vaccines are more than safe and saves millions world wide.

Mercury is not a problem in Canada. Your study showed aluminum additive not a problem.

Great day. Wish I was drinking.

Cheers.

SDF

[Bub]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Ok. Did I say this is a Canadian problem? Was this thread on Canada or USA only?.

And then in the same post a few lines later:

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

This whole thread was to make people go "I wonder", or what are the chances. For people to read, make their own assessments and make an educated decision? That's a win.

So are we really talking about Canada or the world here? How many people do you actually expect to come here and read this thread from the US? I am not even going to ask about Japan and Sweden.
But those few Canadians who visit this forum will read the nonsense about mercury and, who knows, might change their mind. Ain't doing any good to anyone. Not in this country, that's for sure.
Also, if one comes to an outdoorsmen forum to make an educated decision about the vaccination (and there is only outcome, at least an educated one anyway), he/she is doing it wrong to begin with. So let's not drive those away either.

As for Sweden and Japan, especially Japan, if mercury intake is a concern, it might be worthwhile considering the amount of fish and other sea products an average resident of those countries consumes. It is just a thought though, really; I have never looked at any data indicating that one or the other consumes more sea products than we do here.

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Geesus, mercury in ANY compound is toxic. How are you trying to slice and dice this?

Yet, it should not be a concern in Canada, as it was mentioned numerrous times only on this page alone.

Originally Posted by cover

And my point was that maybe the " actual science " is fundamentally flawed because the people doing it are in a sense compromised because they live in constant fear of losing their job if they do not tow the company line.

Luls. This is pure gold.
Scientists live in constant fear of loosing their jobs so the whole "actual science" is flawed.



Something tells me that there are more fellow outdoorsmen only on this forum alone who have concerns about their jobs than the actual scientist doing their science thing all over Canada.

[jrowan]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding vaccines going around lately. Vaccines do not get you sick. If you feel sick afterward you probably had a cold or were sick before the shot and just didn't present or notice signs and symptoms until afterwards.

Vaccines also do not prevent you from getting the illness they are designed for, instead they improve your immune system's response time by training it to be familiar with different viruses. This reduces the severity and time spent sick. It also helps prevent spread as well since the quicker you recover the less time you have to pass it on to someone with a weaker immune system (aka the young and elderly). Also as some people have mentioned you can carry a virus/disease without any symptoms or signs.

Because the flu mutates so quickly, and there are so many different strains a new vaccine is produced each year for a few select strains. They select the strains based on estimates of future spread. These predictions are not perfect and health agencies review the flu vaccine effectiveness every year.

The flu vaccine no longer contains trace amounts of mercury (hasn't for at least a decade). Besides the quantity was less than what you get from eating fish. Anything can be toxic to your body, even water, it is the dose that matters.

A note regarding medications in general:
Different vaccination techniques are in constant development. Before a technique can be used on the general public it goes through a similar approval process to medications. That means animal and human trials that are compared to existing techniques used on the general public. Effectiveness and the severity and frequency of possible side effects are measured and compared.

Anecdotal evidence is not sufficient enough to over turn the scientific evidence we use to develop vaccines and drugs.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by jrowan

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding vaccines going around lately.

You got that right.

Originally Posted by jrowan

Vaccines also do not prevent you from getting the illness they are designed for, instead they improve your immune system's response time by training it to be familiar with different viruses. This reduces the severity and time spent sick.

That's the concept. However...

Originally Posted by jrowan

It also helps prevent spread as well since the quicker you recover the less time you have to pass it on to someone with a weaker immune system (aka the young and elderly). Also as some people have mentioned you can carry a virus/disease without any symptoms or signs.

That my friend is the misconception. Lets step it up a notch and talk about how the "herd immunity" is actually killing people. Lets talk pertussis and the effects on babies that can't be vaccinated - the ones your vaccination routine is supposed to protect.

Pertussis in the US is becoming epidemic yet again. Cocooning (look it up if you don't know what it is) is heavily recommended by the CDC, everyone gets vaccinated so the baby doesn't get infected. That's the herd immunity mentality. However, because there are so many cases of infants under the age of 3 months developing pertussis - and many are dying - the FDA (gawd luv em) did some actual science to find out why. Wow, actual science, what a concept.

In a baboon trial, baboon young were vaccinated against pertussis using the schedule for humans. Shortly thereafter, they were infected with the live virus. Guess what happened when they put the innoculated baboons in with unvaxxed baboons? Feel free to look it up, it's all there online.

You guessed it. It's possible you can be a carrier of pertussis and spreading the disease, you may have mild symptoms or you may not. Chances are, having a mild cough likely won't have you thinking you have whooping cough.

But, correlation is not causation