Pacific NorthWest LNG Project Not Proceeding

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Actually I hang glide, it gets the best MPG. Tough part is when you need the bathroom though

Take Scott h with you next time.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

My guess would be because most of the educated population of the world believe carbon is ruining the enviroment ????

Also false, proven many times on this forum.

[dmcbride]

Lets see how the wind generation is doing in Alberta today.

http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet

Generating just over 10% capacity.

We would need a lot wind turbines to even come close to a coal or natural gas plant.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Lets see how the wind generation is doing in Alberta today.

http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet

Generating just over 10% capacity.

We would need a lot wind turbines to even come close to a coal or natural gas plant.

Not only would we need more turbines, but more transmission lines as well.

For those who complain about transmission charges? More windmills/solar farms/etc = more transmission lines.

[HoytCRX32]

Yep, multiple countries are all rushing to the arctic so they can put up wind turbines and solar panels
Oil and gas will be around for quite some time yet.

[densa44]

This may be the first tangible effect of a minority government were 3 "greens" hold the balance of power.

This is what could happen in the country as a whole if we change "first past the post" voting. It can give veto power to fringe groups which do not have the support of the population as a whole.

I think this is what cooled JT off making changes to the federal system.

This is a very important lesson for all of us. It doesn't matter what side of this issue you support, it could happen with anything.

[Deer Hunter]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-energy-patch

Petronas Deals Fresh Blow as World Exits Canada’s Energy Patch

By
Josh Wingrove
and
Kevin Orland

‎July‎ ‎25‎, ‎2017‎ ‎10‎:‎01‎ ‎PM
LNG project collapse follows oil sector exit by Conoco, Shell

Alberta executive worries ‘Canadians are missing the boat’

Petroliam Nasional Bhd.’s decision to back out of a giant gas-export project on Canada’s Pacific Coast is the latest hit to the country’s energy sector -- and to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s plan of balancing energy exports and climate action.

The Malaysian state-run oil and natural gas producer cited an "extremely challenging environment" of low prices and other changes in declining to proceed with the liquefied natural gas project, which Trudeau approved last year after sweeping to power on pro-environment pledges.

Petronas’s cancellation follows a string of exits from Canada’s oil patch as global producers focus on lower-cost areas. So far this year, ConocoPhillips and Royal Dutch Shell Plc have sold more than $20 billion in oil-sands assets to local producers Cenovus Energy Inc. and Canadian Natural Resources Ltd.

“It’s another negative data point for doing business in Canada," said Swanzy Quarshie, who manages about C$100 million ($80 million) in assets at Sentry Investments Inc. in Toronto. “The biggest concern is the perception that investors are not seeking Canada as an investment opportunity, and what does that do to other investment opportunities?"

Canadian energy projects face tightening regulations, years-long approval processes, environmental opposition and legal uncertainty, particularly around the rights of indigenous people. Trudeau is trying to balance expanding energy exports while cutting Canada’s greenhouse-gas emissions. LNG is generally less controversial than crude oil, but still faced similar hurdles. The $27 billion Petronas proposal was already weighing a different site to quell opposition. That wasn’t the only challenge, though.

‘Bloated Cost’

"More specifically on this project, the challenge was the bloated cost," Robert Norfleet, managing director at Alembic Global Advisors in New York, said by phone Tuesday. "The economics just did not seem to justify bringing that into the market."

In the long run, only a fraction of proposed North American LNG terminals will be built, mostly in the U.S., which has more LNG infrastructure than Canada, said Muhammed Ghulam, associate of equity research at Raymond James in Houston. "There is simply too much LNG export capacity planned in North America and cancellations, especially of Canadian projects, are likely to continue," Ghulam said.

In the short term, the divestiture may help boost gas prices because Petronas may slow the development of its production assets in Canada, Sentry’s Quarshie said. The company also may sell those assets eventually, she said.


“The most likely outcome is that they eventually sell down out of their upstream assets because their reason for acquiring these assets in the first place was because of this LNG project that they were going after.”

NDP Government

While Petronas cited changing market conditions, their withdrawal will be seen in a political lens in Canada. They announced their decision a week after John Horgan became premier of British Columbia, the country’s westernmost province that is both the birthplace of Greenpeace and the nearest gateway for landlocked Alberta’s oil and gas. Horgan leads a precarious, razor-thin coalition government of left-leaning New Democrats bolstered by three Green Party lawmakers. While they are divided on LNG, their alliance toppled Christy Clark, a staunch LNG advocate.

Horgan’s government, however, downplayed the impact of Petronas’ decision on Canada’s LNG sector. "This isn’t about any specific detail with this project. It’s about global market pricing," said Michelle Mungall, the province’s minister of energy, mines and petroleum resources. She planned to immediately call other stakeholders in the LNG industry, including China’s CNOOC Ltd.-backed Aurora LNG, to let them know that the "NDP will be working with them."

Horgan’s narrow grip on power could soon trigger another election, but LNG was a legacy issue for Clark and her Liberal Party, said Mario Canseco, vice president of polling firm Insights West. “They will sell this as something the NDP triggered," he said of Clark. “LNG was always seen as one of the legacy projects, and it’s not going to bode well for her in the end.”

Alberta Impact

Trudeau’s government, too, distanced itself from the collapse of the first major project it approved. "Today’s announcement concerning the Pacific NorthWest LNG project was a business decision made by the proponent," Alexandre Deslongchamps, a spokesman for Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr, said in an email Tuesday. "We will continue to deliver for the energy sector."

The decision is nonetheless the latest blow to Alberta, whose oil sands are the world’s third-largest proven oil reserve while also higher-cost and higher-emitting than competitors.

“The disturbing part of this is that it’s not the first project and the first international major company to leave Canada," Murray Mullen, chief executive officer of Mullen Group Ltd., an oilfield services and trucking company based in Okotoks, Alberta, said in an interview on Bloomberg Markets Canada.

The project was bogged down by regulatory, inter-provincial, environmental and indigenous issues that are adding up to discourage development, he said.

“When you combine all of those together and you can’t get consensus, then nothing happens," Mullen said. “I just worry that Canadians are missing the boat because we’re trying to over-analyze things.”

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by hal53

How many windmills are running near where you live?

Only one.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Kinda sucks for the immediate future of the economy but in the long run I think it's a good move. You can't deny the fact that the global economy is moving away from oil and gas, this is just a symptom of that.

Don't worry though, the company will figure out a way to re-invest their dollars somehow. I am sure they like drilling for oil and gas, but their main goal is to make money, one way or another. In this case, one way isn't going to work, but they will come up with another.

Yes, they will take their investment capital elsewhere on the planet! Only in Canada!?!? PITY!

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by fishead

If wind and solar made so much sense they would be everywhere already, quit slugging nonsense and do you homework. Maybe some innovations will come a long but we are not there yet.

Actually innovations are coming along almost daily.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/b...alifornia.html

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by duck duck goose

Actually I hang glide, it gets the best MPG. Tough part is when you need the bathroom though

Watch out for the windmills. They are tough on the odd bird and a Duck duck Goose sounds like an odd bird to me.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Peter Gill

6,258 Mw of installed coal generation capacity in AB, to replace that with your 9 Mw wind turbine would require 695 of them, IF the wind blew at optimum speed all of the time, which of course it does not. The AB Independent Power Producers Society estimates wind at best 35% efficient, so we'd need over 2000 of your wind turbines, assuming someone creates a viable & cost-effective storage system.

Not quite the entire story though, sad to say for wind power. For 2015 (last year for which I have data), coal in AB produced over 41,000 GwH while wind produced a whopping 3800 GwH. So we would need an almost 11-fold increase in wind generation to replace coal, again assuming a viable storage system as above.

Good luck with that.

Actually Germany is bringing almost 6000 MW of new wind power online EVERY YEAR !!! So yes it can and is being done.

https://1-stromvergleich.com/wind-power-germany/

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Also false, proven many times on this forum.

This forum has proven climate change wrong??????

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Scott h

This forum has proven climate change wrong??????

pretty much as many as times as global warming has proved to be right??....

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Actually Germany is bringing almost 6000 MW of new wind power online EVERY YEAR !!! So yes it can and is being done.

https://1-stromvergleich.com/wind-power-germany/

http://instituteforenergyresearch.or...any-turn-coal/

Germany still requires back up.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

Yep, multiple countries are all rushing to the arctic so they can put up wind turbines and solar panels
Oil and gas will be around for quite some time yet.

Yes oil and gas will be around for a long time and yes as a country we should have sold more to the world BUT we waited too long to try an access other world markets. Now other technologies are growing faster and CHEAPER by the day and that always ends the same...... Land line meet cell phone......

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes oil and gas will be around for a long time and yes as a country we should have sold more to the world BUT we waited too long to try an access other world markets. Now other technologies are growing faster and CHEAPER by the day and that always ends the same...... Land line meet cell phone......

I wonder why we "waited" so long??

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

http://instituteforenergyresearch.or...any-turn-coal/

Germany still requires back up.

Yes it does....but for how much longer with 6000 MW coming online a year ?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by hal53

I wonder why we "waited" so long??

Cuz it was cheaper and easier to sell to the USA....and now they are eating our lunch.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Cuz it was cheaper and easier to sell to the USA....and now they are eating our lunch.

I see...

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by hal53

pretty much as many as times as global warming has proved to be right??....

How about you post a credible source against (no Rebel, Jimmy Swaggart or Trump please ) and I'll post an one in response. We'll see who's list is the most credible....

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Scott h

How about you post a credible source against (no Rebel, Jimmy Swaggart or Trump please ) and I'll post an one in response. We'll see who's list is the most credible....

Sorry..I have no interest in getting into a cut and paste contest with an alarmist....have a great day

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes oil and gas will be around for a long time and yes as a country we should have sold more to the world BUT we waited too long to try an access other world markets. Now other technologies are growing faster and CHEAPER by the day and that always ends the same...... Land line meet cell phone......

Land lines AND cell phones are both made from plastic which comes from.....?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I would absolutely be open to wind mills in North Van, but I would really like to see them in Calgary where they would make much more sense.
How about you. Would you like a sour gas plant next to your child's school, or are you a bit of a NIMBY type ???

Scott my son, we have had tens of thousands of miles of pipelines under our feet here in Alberta without major problem for a century. You out there are terrified of a pipeline ten miles from your house. I can drive to a gas plant in ten minutes and often hunt the next quarter section, knowing the landowners who live right there.

How do windmills make more sense in Calgary? We aren't the ones in tears over the production of fossil fuels. You Vancouverites should stop driving cars or heating your homes with them. Ride a bike and put a windmill on every corner.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes it does....but for how much longer with 6000 MW coming online a year ?

You don't get it. The 6000 MW still needs back up for when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.

" While Germany gets 27.3 percent of its generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy, it is also heavily dependent on coal and natural gas for base-load power and to back up its intermittent wind and solar power, generating over 50 percent of its power from fossil fuels"

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

This forum has proven climate change wrong??????

No, everyone here agrees the climate changes over long/short term periods of time.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes it does....but for how much longer with 6000 MW coming online a year ?

Looks attractive, doesn't it...

[qwert]

Originally Posted by densa44

snip
This is what could happen in the country as a whole if we change "first past the post" voting. It can give veto power to fringe groups which do not have the support of the population as a whole.
snip

As a matter of fact,
FPTP elections seldom "have the support of the population as a whole", most are elected with ~35-38% support.

PR (proportional representation) similarly seldom receives "the support of the population as a whole".

The ONLY voting system that achieves "the support of the population as a whole" is 'preferential' voting, AKA 'ranked' or 'STV' (single transferable vote) or sequential run off balloting, (which are all just procedural variations of the same principal).
This is the type of election most common worldwide, and that used by most political parties worldwide for their own internal elections of officers, executives and candidates.
This system may not always select everyone's first choice, but it does choose the option most acceptable to the majority of "the population as a whole", and perhaps most important, never selects an option opposed by a majority of "the population as a whole", which has too often been the result of FPTP.

Good Luck, YMMV

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Scott my son, we have had tens of thousands of miles of pipelines under our feet here in Alberta without major problem for a century. You out there are terrified of a pipeline ten miles from your house. I can drive to a gas plant in ten minutes and often hunt the next quarter section, knowing the landowners who live right there.

How do windmills make more sense in Calgary? We aren't the ones in tears over the production of fossil fuels. You Vancouverites should stop driving cars or heating your homes with them. Ride a bike and put a windmill on every corner.

Actually I'm not apposed or scared of natural gas pipelines in the least. I'm only saying it's a sunset industry. There were many decades when the country could have started exporting oil and gas to Asia or Europe with virtually no opposition but infrastructure was never invested in. Now there is opposition AND alternatives. That's a very bad combination.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news...040/index.html

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Looks attractive, doesn't it...

Compared to......
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/u...rrigation.html
https://photographyforagreenerplanet...l-wellsfields/