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  #31  
Old 10-29-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
OK, I may have missed that. The way I see it, predators have different impacts. As I said earlier, bears are really bad on moose for sure (taking up to 50% of calves under 6 weeks old), and I assume similar realities on elk.

Wolves certainly can have a short term real impact on ungulates, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. The problem with wolves though is multi-faceted. If you take out the alpha male and female, the pack will just split up, with two alphas now. I don't don't think that will end up in less wolves. If the ungulate population goes down, either wolves will breed less or move out.

Now cougars are a totally different situation. They seem to moving into areas they've never been, and a lot of that has to do with increase in deer herds. I wish they would go out in the CWD areas and clean up there, and I've heard some may have been spotted there in fact.

The long and short still is habitat. I see more issues with forestry practices, and some O&G than I do with wolves. But that's just me. I figure if a critter doesn't have a kitchen to eat out of, and a bedroom to sleep and procreate in, it won't be around there for long.


Isn’t that the scenario that Dwight uses as a reason for not managing wolf populations? If you kill them there will be more of them? Let them eat all of the ungulates and when there’s none left they’ll move somewhere else and do the same thing?

I don’t profess to be an expert about wolves, but what about other scenarios, like if you trap the juveniles in the pack and not both alpha wolves there’d be fewer of them.
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2017, 12:00 PM
normstad normstad is offline
 
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Isn’t that the scenario that Dwight uses as a reason for not managing wolf populations? If you kill them there will be more of them? Let them eat all of the ungulates and when there’s none left they’ll move somewhere else and do the same thing?

I don’t profess to be an expert about wolves, but what about other scenarios, like if you trap the juveniles in the pack and not both alpha wolves there’d be fewer of them.
Yeah, might work, but not sure how you can be that selective on traps. Besides, I believe, just like twinning rates rise in ungulates, if you hit a pack and reduce their numbers, they just have more pups.

Frankly, I worry more about bears and the real impact they have on moose and elk than I do wolves.
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2017, 12:02 PM
normstad normstad is offline
 
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368 sheep transplants is the number I have found.
Yes the mine has tons of grass it's off the mine that I didn't see much for grass which is maybe part of the reason many do not wonder off the mine.
It would be interesting to get some info from the bio's for sure.
I know if you go into any F&W office and see a sheep on the wall, you can tell immediately if it is a Cadomin sheep by the dark horns. No question the sheep are there because the food is there, and they don't wander far off the mine at all.
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2017, 02:07 PM
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Thunder Elk Hunter Thunder Elk Hunter is offline
 
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Connor creek grazing reserve is another prime example. The govt has even went as far as too spend taxpayers money too collar wolves and try and kill off the pack with collar info. But in the meantime the holder of the Rfma covering the reserve has never killed a wolf and has no interst too. And the 2 neighbouring Rfma areas are in the same situation. So it needs too be a widespread control program.
Will check with some people but I believe he took 8 wolves of Connor creek 2 years ago. My RFMA is close to there so what other lines are you talking about? Do you know how many were taken off my line last year?

I think you should have your story straight before you spout off
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  #35  
Old 11-02-2017, 03:59 PM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is online now
 
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to be fair, an areas' state of wildlife is not necessarily up to the trappers activity for one; the 'trapper' you seek, he's the area's 'specialist' active or no.. two and third, i think this post has brought up Many points...

i met that guy, he was a grizzled old trapper using an... Alpine.(For those of you that dunno that's a really old sled, goes OMG slo but Great for hilly terrain). told me that he trapped, but season was overun early due to... wolves. Why i bring up the sled? what's he mean 'overun'?
- he told me that due to his marten trapping being pillaged and seeing less sign (remember, -83% overall species population), that he was unable to make it a successful season; marten market loss -
ie: because he was set in his ways and lacking the necessary support.. an Alpine FFS!! he could not do a Proper job.

...not his fault really, the RFMA system were originally developed to supply said trapper And his family a comfortable living opportunity While doing the public a benefit by providing management and a specialist in said RFMA.
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  #36  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
I know if you go into any F&W office and see a sheep on the wall, you can tell immediately if it is a Cadomin sheep by the dark horns. No question the sheep are there because the food is there, and they don't wander far off the mine at all.
That statement is totally false. And for the most part most mine rams have light coloured horns I have noticed.
Dark coloured horns I find are more abundant in rams that live in the trees. Not much for trees on the mine.
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  #37  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:14 PM
243 wild cat 243 wild cat is offline
 
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I'd consider a trip down there and try some calling, always on the lookout for new areas
Yep i would too
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:41 PM
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So why dont people just go and hunt these wolves without bait... noob question i know but id be willing to make up a drive and take out a few if it is reasonable effort to hunt without bait
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  #39  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:19 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is online now
 
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The discovery from Wayne.

He came across a downed Moose out west his first reaction was the Wolves got her since they trampled the snow pack all around.

He tracked back into the to find the battle grounds where it first started,,, something didn't seem right as there was a long wide drag trail in the snow. It was there that he realized that a Grizzly jumped it.
This Cow might of been ill or wonded and not able to fend off the attack.

She made it close to the edges of the clearing. Once she expired the Grizzly drug her back into the trees as far as it could he's thinking
Purhaps to bury it under the log pile close by.

The Grizzly ate what it wanted and probably left for the time been.
The packs are thick in these areas, they could of picked up on the sent and moved in on it.

Wayne said later that he was pretty sure the Gizz got it down, the Wolves came along latter.
Some folks that would of come across this might of thought the Wolves took it down from looking at the feeding grounds much like he thought.

Lucky thing is that my friend has keen eyes of trying to peace together what is what as he could of missed out on the clues left behind.

This is what he said at the end of his story...

Sometimes Wolves get blamed for the kills in many cases,,, this happens because of the massive amounts of tracks at these kill sights,,, with out tracking back or around even I can miss out on other predators that "could" of been the original contributer to the take down,,, then maybe the Wolves came along later.
Don't know as I wasn't there.

This makes me wonder how many Deer, sheep, younger calves of Elk and Moose fall prey to Cougars.
It's been said that Cats "normally eat fresh kills only."

I wonder how many fall prey to these big cats since the forests are full of them.

I believe that all predator hang a licking on hooved animals,,, I get wondering my self now what predator it was that really did the kill before others come along for the feast.

Don
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  #40  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:56 PM
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Don , the cats are an issue. My buddy hunts cats and there are some right around the town of Cadomin often enough. He says that they can't let the dogs loose because they will most likely end up on the mine chasing the cat and end up in trouble so they don't bother.

I bet there are a lot of areas like this where you just can't risk it so the predators are safe.

Why can't fish and wildlife help out in these situations and find a way to legally take out some of the predators on the mine. Hire a worker of the mine to aid in making sure things go smoothly and nobody gets hurt.
Take out a few cats around there with a couple houndsmen and save a few sheep.

Wolves do get blamed for a lot I know but I think I mentioned it earlier that I have seen wolves the last 2 times out there and both times on the mine. I doubt they stray far from the boundary as they got whatever they need right there.
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