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05-12-2018, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
There is too many other options that are far superior than the creedmoor
The 6.5x284 and the 6.5 PRC blow it out of the water.
26 nosler and 6.5x300 wby are a step above those
To me your asking for issues with losing game with the creedmoor especially if your stretching it legs
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Nice try.
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05-12-2018, 05:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Both 140 VLD’s seated the same length from the case mouth. 260 first. 6.5 CM next.
260 Re- 2.980" OAL, holds 48.5 grains H20, under bulle,t but will not fit in Mag
![](https://i.imgur.com/7a7bNDp.jpg)
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6.5 CM fits in Magazines and holds 48.0 grains compared to 46.8 of H2O in the 260 seated with the same COAL:
[IMG] ![](http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad48/lclund1946/65%20EXTREME/6.5%20CM%20140%20VLD_zpsrwjfxvvk.jpg) [/IMG]
The success of the 6.5 CM is more to do with the superior design that fits better in modern magazines as it will seat to the lands. As well Hornady have come out with great 143 factory hunting loads and 140 factory target loads. It looks like RL 26 will make it really perform.
Clearly an inferior design for the Heavy bullets:
[IMG] ![](http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad48/lclund1946/65%20EXTREME/260%20Rem%20140%20VLD%20same%20as%206.5CM_zps58ty7hhk.jpg) [/IMG]
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05-12-2018, 05:06 PM
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![Lefty-Canuck's Avatar](image.php?s=67a0c05a877fe245adfe33e16317c0f1&u=20501&dateline=1592423003) |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,797
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I have a 260rem and a 260imp, no need for the Creedmore in my safe.
LC
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05-12-2018, 05:08 PM
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![Huntsman's Avatar](image.php?s=67a0c05a877fe245adfe33e16317c0f1&u=9264&dateline=1244166990) |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Morinville
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Thompson Center Compass
I picked up one of these in 6.5 CM.
Super accurate with Hornady 129gr IL North American Whitetail loads.
I shoot my Tikka in 6.5 x 55 Swede more though.
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05-12-2018, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,066
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One nice thing about the 6.5 CM, in just the last few months, is good factory hunting loads available at very reasonable (30.00) per box. Combine that and a Wby V2 and its a heck of a good hunting rifle. Good luck!
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05-12-2018, 06:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter
Let me get this straight....the 6.5 creed isn't suitable for hunting, and will result in "issues with losing game" as opposed to, well... a trusty 6.5-284?
6.5 creed 140 grs approx. 2700 fps
6.5-284 140 grs approx 2800 fps
Now sure, you can load a 6.5-300wby or 260 nosler or the like, but these are magnum calibres and so overbore that barrel life be prohibitive to use as a target rifle.
Now let me think, wasn't there a popular european chambering back in the day that made the 6.5 calibre a name on deer and moose? 6.5x55 or swede or something? If only we could find a way to push a 140 grain 6.5mm projectile to similar velocities, then we would have a hunting cartridge we could rely on.
I realise that some people think it's cool to be contrarian... but Lord.... that's an awful take.
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If your only getting 2800 FPS with a 6.5x284 I would be doing some more load development. There’s normally a node at 3000 FPS
26 nosler is another 350 FPS gain above that
Ammo availability is really a non issue in North America for any of these calibers
Personally, I’ve seen a lot of animals have an extremely high will to live. I’d rather have a front quarter with major damage over wounding something. I just think for hunting here, There’s better options
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05-12-2018, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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M89843
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
If your only getting 2800 FPS with a 6.5x284 I would be doing some more load development. There’s normally a node at 3000 FPS
26 nosler is another 350 FPS gain above that
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I simply pulled two factory loads from the same manufacturer, which is really beside the point. The 6.5X55 with factory ammo has a lower muzzle velocity than the creed, and it's a legendary killer with well over a century long track record. In fact, I would say it's in the running for best "punch above it's bore size" killing power of any rifle cartridge out there.
Comparing the creed to hotter 6.5's is a straw man, it can do what the swede has done so effectively, and for so long.... to worry about it's effectiveness on deer size game is absurd.
For God's sake, people love the .243 for deer, which I consider marginal after a tough kill that I made a good shot on. You would be the first person I've ever heard question the 6.5x55, which is in effect exactly what you're doing.
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05-12-2018, 07:12 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
If your only getting 2800 FPS with a 6.5x284 I would be doing some more load development. There’s normally a node at 3000 FPS
26 nosler is another 350 FPS gain above that
Ammo availability is really a non issue in North America for any of these calibers
Personally, I’ve seen a lot of animals have an extremely high will to live. I’d rather have a front quarter with major damage over wounding something. I just think for hunting here, There’s better options
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You are completely out to lunch. Completely. Experience, real experience, is a great teacher. With some you will clearly understand that what the CM can do with suitable bullets at those speeds are more than sufficient for most game that walks this continent.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-12-2018, 07:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
If your only getting 2800 FPS with a 6.5x284 I would be doing some more load development. There’s normally a node at 3000 FPS
26 nosler is another 350 FPS gain above that
Ammo availability is really a non issue in North America for any of these calibers
Personally, I’ve seen a lot of animals have an extremely high will to live. I’d rather have a front quarter with major damage over wounding something. I just think for hunting here, There’s better options
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Ya, anything under a 338-378wby is a recipe for disaster....... LOL!!!
So what if it's so over bore it burns the barrel out inside 300 rounds, a guy needs at least 80gr of powder before risking a shot at a living animal.
I know the sarcasm is spread pretty thick here, but some of the arguments against the Creedmoor are crazy.
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05-12-2018, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Morinville
Posts: 699
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Thanks to those who recommended rifles for me lol ....
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05-12-2018, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dweb
Thanks to those who recommended rifles for me lol ....
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Let’s not get bogged down in the actual question at hand. Laughing.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-12-2018, 09:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
You are completely out to lunch. Completely. Experience, real experience, is a great teacher. With some you will clearly understand that what the CM can do with suitable bullets at those speeds are more than sufficient for most game that walks this continent.
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Buddy I know nothing about you, and you definitely know nothing about me.
Last time I checked, posts on a forum have zero correlation to time and experience and success in the field..
You can run your yap all you want
Only reason I’m on this forum is for the buy and sell. All these threads are flooded with key pad experts so I typically avoid them. I figured I’d share some insight other than the typical bs from the google search experts.
Good luck with your creedmoor. When something gets away, which I hope doesn’t happen. Remember this conversation
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05-12-2018, 10:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
I have a 260rem and a 260imp, no need for the Creedmore in my safe.
LC
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Need has little to do with why most of us buy new calibers.....lol
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05-12-2018, 10:55 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
Buddy I know nothing about you, and you definitely know nothing about me.
Last time I checked, posts on a forum have zero correlation to time and experience and success in the field..
You can run your yap all you want
Only reason I’m on this forum is for the buy and sell. All these threads are flooded with key pad experts so I typically avoid them. I figured I’d share some insight other than the typical bs from the google search experts.
Good luck with your creedmoor. When something gets away, which I hope doesn’t happen. Remember this conversation
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Marky,
The thing is, is its true that in an average mans hands, on an average hunt, there is nothing that a 6.5x284 can do that a Creedmoor can't. A 6.5x284 is a semi hot rod cartridge, but the only real life advantage it has over the Creedmoor is a slightly flatter trajectory. 0-600yds and the Creedmoor shooting a 143gr Eld-x will be carrying enough speed and momentum to allow the bullet to fully perform as intended, meaning it will have the speed to mushroom the bullet nicely and the momentum to give it enough penetration to mess up the vitals.
I smoked a deer in the shoulder with a 300wsm and it got away. Is the 6.5x284 a more lethal cartridge than the 300wsm? I highly doubt it, but the point is, if you hit an animal right it dies, if you don't hit him right there are no guarantees no matter what gun you're shooting.
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05-12-2018, 11:04 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
You are completely out to lunch. Completely. Experience, real experience, is a great teacher. With some you will clearly understand that what the CM can do with suitable bullets at those speeds are more than sufficient for most game that walks this continent.
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I guess if one is selective about both quarry and distance I could agree with that. However,experience has shown that not to be the case with my 6.5x55 and it's a bit more of a hunting cartridge than the CM. It's pretty easy to overrate the CM with all the hype flying around these days.
It does it's best at what it was designed for.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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05-12-2018, 11:37 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-13-2018, 04:15 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
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That video is exactly what I've been talking about, even shows an elk kill at 600yds! Makes me feel even better about my choice.
My plan was to get an all round rifle that I'll use year round for everything, and I plan on putting a pile of lead through the pipe. Easy on the powder, easy on the shoulder, hard on game, and bucks the wind better than most other calibers. Great for shooting paper or anything from a coyote to a moose.
Dweb, I'm sure you'll love the Creedmoor, I know I will.
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05-13-2018, 08:15 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
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I'm guessing because it's not the best choice for F-class competition shooting?
Lol, what do you think??? I'll go back and read but I didn't see where Dweb stated he was looking for an F-class rifle.
How many of those F-class rifles you figure are used for hunting big game? I'd venture to say about none. How many barrels a year you figure those rifles go through? How many hunters do you know would want to go through the hassle of swapping out barrels or turning them down?
Nobody said the Creedmoor is the best f-class cartridge did they?
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05-13-2018, 08:26 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
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Unbelievable. I mean really.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-13-2018, 08:29 AM
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![catnthehat's Avatar](image.php?s=67a0c05a877fe245adfe33e16317c0f1&u=655&dateline=1640378359) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
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That is from the Southwest Nats in the States .
I don't think the 284 Win is the favourite up here but I will have to check .
One thing that must be kept in mind is that the Creedmore was designed around a different class of shooting than F Class where action length is a non issue . You likely will not find many rifles chambered in 6.5 Creedmore being used in Three Gun, 300 meter Free Rifle , the Williamsport light gun or the Internationsl Sniper Concentration either just to bake a few more ......
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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05-13-2018, 08:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
That is from the Southwest Nats in the States .
I don't think the 284 Win is the favourite up here but I will have to check .
One thing that must be kept in mind is that the Creedmore was designed around a different class of shooting than F Class where action length is a non issue . You likely will not find many rifles chambered in 6.5 Creedmore being used in Three Gun, 300 meter Free Rifle , the Williamsport light gun or the Internationsl Sniper Concentration either just to bake a few more ......
Cat
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It just seems odd, that a cartridge that is supposedly so superior in design, was not represented by even one shooter. If a cartridge is really superior, you would think that shooters at that level would be using it. And given that the 6.5x47 and the 260 rem were represented, makes it even more of a mystery.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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05-13-2018, 09:16 AM
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![catnthehat's Avatar](image.php?s=67a0c05a877fe245adfe33e16317c0f1&u=655&dateline=1640378359) |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
It just seems odd, that a cartridge that is supposedly so superior in design, was not represented by even one shooter. If a cartridge is really superior, you would think that shooters at that level would be using it. And given that the 6.5x47 and the 260 rem were represented, makes it even more of a mystery.
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As was stated earlier, one of the criteria the Creedmore was built around was action length, and in Fclass thus is a noon issue.
There are many other factors in play as well, not the least being the bias of certain top shooters for a particular cartridge , action, or in the case of Fclass and bench shooting, even the rests being used.
This also translates to PRS, three positition, etc.
Barnes said it best years ago in one of his Editions of Cartridges of the World
" Just because the Screaming Garbanzo Bean is the crowd favorite at your range does not mean it is going too catch on in the next county".
Personally speaking I think the 284 Winchester is an interesting cartridge
but find it equally amusing that it has regained popularity in a discipline, as it has the dubious reputation of having spawned far more popular wildcats than its popularity as itself.
As far as the cartridge in question here goes, where the 6.5 Creedmore is headed is anyone's guess, but as far as any big advantage it has for me personally there is none, it's a 6.5 caliber which I like but as far as cartridge length for chambers and mags go it's a non issue for me because I shoot mainly single shot rifles.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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05-13-2018, 09:19 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
It just seems odd, that a cartridge that is supposedly so superior in design, was not represented by even one shooter. If a cartridge is really superior, you would think that shooters at that level would be using it. And given that the 6.5x47 and the 260 rem were represented, makes it even more of a mystery.
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What makes the 260rem and the 6.5x47 Lapua superior to the 6.5 Creedmoor? Here's a guess, I think it's because the Creedmoor is relatively new and most F-class shooters that are shooting that size of 6.5 cartridge already have reloading components set up for, and are used to the dope of the 260 and 6.5x47, that there is no sense in switching for such minimal difference in performance.
Now as far as average Joe goes, they would be foolish to choose the 260rem or 6.5x47 lapua over the Creedmoor because the over the counter ammo availability is already way better than both the other cartridges even though it's a much newer cartridge. Wait ten more years and look on the shelves, I bet it'll be one of the most popular boxes of ammo you see.
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05-13-2018, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
What makes the 260rem and the 6.5x47 Lapua superior to the 6.5 Creedmoor? Here's a guess, I think it's because the Creedmoor is relatively new and most F-class shooters that are shooting that size of 6.5 cartridge already have reloading components set up for, and are used to the dope of the 260 and 6.5x47, that there is no sense in switching for such minimal difference in performance.
Now as far as average Joe goes, they would be foolish to choose the 260rem or 6.5x47 lapua over the Creedmoor because the over the counter ammo availability is already way better than both the other cartridges even though it's a much newer cartridge. Wait ten more years and look on the shelves, I bet it'll be one of the most popular boxes of ammo you see.
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Competitors at that level would gladly change dies and cases if it gave them a measurable advantage over the competition. As for the dope, the difference is so small, as to be meaningless. As for the availability of factory loads, that is a result of marketing, accurate factory loads could easily be produced for the 260rem and the 6.5x47, if the manufacturers chose to make them.
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05-13-2018, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmisfits
There has to be something behind it if the US military is looking at dropping the 7.62 NATO round in favor of it.
I’ll be looking at a lighter weight stainless hunting rig soon. It will be on my short list. So is a 308 and a 7-08.
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Not really dropping the 7.62 they are still going to use it. Looking at certain elite units switching to a 6.5 round. They also were looking at going back to 7.62 over 5.56 as a standard round last year or so. They also are looking at 300 Norma mag for applications. They resurrected the M14 platform as a marksman rifle. Doubt they will ever just be done with 7.62.
Hornady did a very good job in marketing. It is popular because snipers hide website really pushed it for them as a competition round for PRS. It would be interesting to see if it actually been as popular without that website . 6.5 were being used before but it was really the creedmore that pushed them mainstream in the last years.
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05-13-2018, 09:31 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Morinville
Posts: 699
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I just want to shoot a deer in novemember. I am by no means looking to use this competitively........
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05-13-2018, 09:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Competitors at that level would gladly change dies and cases if it gave them a measurable advantage over the competition. As for the dope, the difference is so small, as to be meaningless. As for the availability of factory loads, that is a result of marketing, accurate factory loads could easily be produced for the 260rem and the 6.5x47, if the manufacturers chose to make them.
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I see a lot of "if" in your post. I believe I stated there was minimal difference in performance, hence why it wouldn't make sense to change.
If if if. If means nothing, the Fact that the manufacturers chose to make the Creedmoor ammo and not the 6.5x47 or the 260rem is all that matters here. IF they chose the 6.5x47 or the 260rem I would have picked the one that they chose, BUT they chose the Creedmoor didn't they. So did I.
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05-13-2018, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dweb
I just want to shoot a deer in novemember. I am by no means looking to use this competitively........
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Maybe Elkhunter11 can explain to you why the CM would be a bad choice for that.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-13-2018, 09:38 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogie
Not really dropping the 7.62 they are still going to use it. Looking at certain elite units switching to a 6.5 round. They also were looking at going back to 7.62 over 5.56 as a standard round last year or so. They also are looking at 300 Norma mag for applications. They resurrected the M14 platform as a marksman rifle. Doubt they will ever just be done with 7.62.
Hornady did a very good job in marketing. It is popular because snipers hide website really pushed it for them as a competition round for PRS. It would be interesting to see if it actually been as popular without that website . 6.5 were being used before but it was really the creedmore that pushed them mainstream in the last years.
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Ok, a little more in depth than what I had heard. Basically they said that the 7.62 was going to be used as a training tool for their snipers but real world be be the 6.5CM, jump to the 300WM, and then the 338Lapua, and then the 50.
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