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07-04-2007, 05:59 PM
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I would consider myself a pretty serious student of the shooting sports… and I know I will always remain a student.
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Now that is one of the profound things I've ever heard said on this board. Well stated!
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07-04-2007, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
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We used to call this "Bench racing" in the old hot-rodding days. As always, when the green flag drops, the bullsh t stops.
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07-04-2007, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered user
We used to call this "Bench racing" in the old hot-rodding days. As always, when the green flag drops, the bullsh t stops.
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good one
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There are no absolutes
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07-04-2007, 08:23 PM
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It appears that this has been a very active thread while I was at work.For the record,I would never attempt a 600 yard shot at any big game animal.Under perfect conditions,500 yards would be my absolute limit,and if there is any crosswind,or a solid rest is not available,my limit is adjusted to a much more conservative distance.I have shot 3" to 4" groups at 500 yards from a benchrest with my hunting gear,but in the mountains,there is almost always wind ,and the shots are often at angles that complicate range estimation,even with a laser rangefinder.
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07-04-2007, 08:34 PM
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I agree completely and MY limit is 400 yds. max. due to age, lack of available practice range beyond 300M AND enough experience to know from actual field results that I cannot shoot like I used to and most guys who talk the longrange talk, cannot walk the walk.
A really enlightening experience for me was on Doucette Tower out of Slave back in '93, I had a 200 yd. range marked out and some VERY tuned rifles and loads. One of these was a KImber Super Grade in .223 that would do 3/8"at 100 Yds, consistently, using a B&L Balvar 3x9 that I still have.
Hah, I get to Alberta and the freakin' wind blows those 55 gr. NBTS ALL OVER the target and NEVER the same pattern twice...at a mere 200 yds.......
My .264 "drill" even has problems with wind and it don't blow as much here in BC, usually, as in good old Alberta, so.......................
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07-04-2007, 08:45 PM
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Wow this thread has gone crazy......gotta love it....
Some amazing points made....Stinky I would agree that you need to step back and take a thought about what you are saying. Maybe read some more and gain a better understanding of sheep hunting. Most people here who have commented are very very knowledgeable about firearms, and most are even more knowledgeable about sheep hunting. I think you need to understand that sheep hunting is tough....very tough. If you think you'll find rams on every mountain, you're wrong. Once you become a true sheep hunter, you'll realize that the blood, sweat, sights, preperation, and hard work are all just as important as the gun you're shooting. Mess it up by taking a long bomb, and its not fun. I know I would be devistated. By talking about taking 600 yards at sheep, you're pretty much talking like a shooter, and DEFINATLY not a sheep hunter. Get out and experience a sheep hunt, and I promise you'll have a different respect for the animals.
I think its easy enough to judge rams, but I've done quite a bit of it. Are you really confident in your judging rams yet? Confident enough to shoot one at 600 yards and walk up and find that your ram is short?
How far does your 270 drift with 20kmh wind and what is the exact drop at 600 yards? What about 620?
I think I should stay outta this one too....but theres something about your comments that make it seem like you think sheep hunting is an easy game, and as long as you find one, you can shoot it at any range. Maybe I'm reading too deep into your posts, but as a person who has hunted for 5 years and hasnt killed a ram (and I've worked my ass off in the hills) I find it a bit disrespectful.....
Meh.....interesting thread.....
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07-04-2007, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
I find it a bit disrespectful.....
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Was kind of thinking the same thing!
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07-04-2007, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
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Come on ladies ol' stink is blowing smoke up yer skirts and having a good chuckle at you while he does and nobody bothers to call BS...
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07-04-2007, 10:02 PM
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What you'll notice in this thread is that the more experienced guys have a tendancy to limit their shots to reasonable distances as most have experienced the unexplainable bad shot that was taken with the bravado and false confidence of inexperience and have learned from it.
Yes we've all seen the videos of the sniper type shooters shooting things at 1000+yds, what they don't show you is the many misses and wounding shots that were edited, big game animals deserve more respect than the Taliban.
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07-05-2007, 12:35 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
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Kutenay, I have shot a few of Mr. Gibeault's rifles !
He was a good friend of my father's.
Old Badger bought one of his rifles from paul reibin a few years back, wonderful shooter.
For those not " in the know"
Joe Gibeault built up Long Branch Enfields, rebarreling them and chambering them in.308 winchester, with custom stocks.
The things are lasers when used with a Palma bullet and iron sights.
Long range?
Here's a pic of what 600+yards looks like .
I'm shooting at a 1' rock across the river, on the bare spot directly above my line of sight.
The rock was split with 5 shots and 5 hits with a Sportco M44 in 308 Winchester shooting prone with iron sights and sling.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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07-05-2007, 01:46 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lloydminster
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Wow, thats some great shooting, many, myself included, would have a tough time with a scoped rifle.
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07-05-2007, 07:31 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCTHEMI
Wow, thats some great shooting, many, myself included, would have a tough time with a scoped rifle.
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Thanks!
A one foot target is a fairly easy target at 600 yards.
HOWEVER, the caveat is - a know range that I shoot on regularly, with a stationary target with a rifle I have many thousands of rounds through.
Plus,the rifle is hardly something you would drag around on a mountain.
Anybody who has ever shot an ironsighted rifle built for long range target shooting will tell you it's fun, but they would nnot to use the dsame rifle for hunting big game!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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07-05-2007, 08:06 AM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubblejumper
It appears that this has been a very active thread while I was at work.For the record,I would never attempt a 600 yard shot at any big game animal.Under perfect conditions,500 yards would be my absolute limit,and if there is any crosswind,or a solid rest is not available,my limit is adjusted to a much more conservative distance.I have shot 3" to 4" groups at 500 yards from a benchrest with my hunting gear,but in the mountains,there is almost always wind ,and the shots are often at angles that complicate range estimation,even with a laser rangefinder.
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I believe that 100%...sounds pretty common sense to me. See, no big deal n the groups at those ranges eh? In the archery world if your that proficient with group size your good to go hunting to that range if the conditions are right...but in the gun world its apparently different.
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07-05-2007, 08:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
I believe that 100%...sounds pretty common sense to me. See, no big deal n the groups at those ranges eh? In the archery world if your that proficient with group size your good to go hunting to that range if the conditions are right...but in the gun world its apparently different.
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I'd say its the same as the archery world.....I shoot at 80-90 yards with my bow and can hit an 8" plate at 80 yards.....even still, the conditions will NEVER be right for an 80 yard shot with my bow. Main reason, the animal is live and is always going to be a variable you cant control.....period.
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07-05-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
I think I should stay outta this one too....but theres something about your comments that make it seem like you think sheep hunting is an easy game
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Its how you gotta think about things for it to be fun man.....if i don't think like its going to be easy and fun then it won't be...might as well think that way until i've got 5 years under my belt like you...then i might feel same way. (your going to want to strangle me if i get a sheep this year won't you?...no worries, at this point i'm just hoping to get a few days to go hike around the mountains and look for them...never mind kill one first year...i want this to last and be much harder than the deer hunting thing and by all indications thats exactly what i'm in for so we're all good in the hood brother)
And Rich has the right idea about me on this too. Just havin some fun. I still think there is good info...helps give a guy the big picture.
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07-05-2007, 08:19 AM
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Stinky, I wont strangle you if you kill a ram this year....hell get out there and do it....I respect anyone who kills a ram.....its hard work....
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07-05-2007, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackmastr
I'd say its the same as the archery world.....I shoot at 80-90 yards with my bow and can hit an 8" plate at 80 yards.....even still, the conditions will NEVER be right for an 80 yard shot with my bow. Main reason, the animal is live and is always going to be a variable you cant control.....period.
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Agree'd, i can keep 3 into about 5-6" pretty routine at 70 so i'm a little more comfortable to closer to that under ideal conditions...but we all know that ideal conditions are far and few between in the field.
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07-05-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
I'm a tad curious as to why you wont give a Rilfe Rodeo a try, if the pressure of competition gets to you how the heck do you cope with the sheep fever?
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Well thats the thing. Never shot a 3d before and never shot a powder burner contest before either. You've all heard the stories about the range pro's in camp and they can't hit the broadside of anything alive but shoot the nuts off a flea at 500 right? Or the ole boy and his 'one gun' who misses nothing alive but probably never shot a piece of paper in his life. If i were to shoot at any type of competition i'd have no predictions whatsoever as it would be brand spankin new to me, pressure and all....but put me in the field chasing critters etc. and its like old home and i'll compete with anyone there....but i prefer me against the critter so i wouldn't be paying much attention to any other competition anyhow.
For my archery...have no idea how well i might be able to do in a 3d, been asked to do it many times, i have a 50 yrd range i can shoot daily and then to shoot longer i just drag my target around with me until i hit a piece of land (Dad's place or whatever field i land in somewhere etc.) and set up target and rangefind and practice the other shots. I concentrate alot on what my first shot is at the longer ranges...not necessarily the groups...which aren't terrible but its that first one that counts so i build my confidence on that one most. So i'll watch my first shot for weeks on end until i'm happy with where the pin is and my consistency grows with that practice. I'll do it first thing in morning, last thing in day etc. just to do what i can to simulate that one shot afield...stiff, not warmed up etc. to warm and ready and everything in between. Anyhow...i digress...
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07-05-2007, 08:47 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 5,189
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07-05-2007, 08:51 AM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackmastr
Stinky, I wont strangle you if you kill a ram this year....hell get out there and do it....I respect anyone who kills a ram.....its hard work....
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Trev, i have no doubts, guaranteed you and i would get along just fine if we were to hunt sheep together. This is the ABO remember....gotta have a little fun here...c'mon...you know my style.
After hearing about buddy and his iron sights at 600 yrds i feel like a chump doing basically the same thing with a 1/2 moa tikka .204 varmint ss and a 1200 dollar 14x top end leupy scope. Tee hee.
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 07-05-2007 at 08:57 AM.
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07-05-2007, 10:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
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Go back and read what Cat said he was using for an iron sighter.
It's a Sportco 44 with a global peep, designed for Palma Matches.
This aint for the faint of heart, and if you think it's that damn easy, there is only one way to put any sort of validity to your statements.
But like thay say about walking and talking.
So far all I smell is a lot of talk.
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07-05-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
Well thats the thing. Never shot a 3d before and never shot a powder burner contest before either. You've all heard the stories about the range pro's in camp and they can't hit the broadside of anything alive but shoot the nuts off a flea at 500 right? Or the ole boy and his 'one gun' who misses nothing alive but probably never shot a piece of paper in his life. If i were to shoot at any type of competition i'd have no predictions whatsoever as it would be brand spankin new to me, pressure and all....but put me in the field chasing critters etc. and its like old home and i'll compete with anyone there....but i prefer me against the critter so i wouldn't be paying much attention to any other competition
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You know what the diffrence is between this "range pro" and someone who talks BS all the time is?
These:
I've heard all the BS your spouting about old guys never going to the range and how you can't hit paper but always hit game, and it's that BS.
The old boys who never hit the range usually shoot their game at sub 100yd distances, because they are better hunters instead of shooters, and the hitting paper myth is just that, a myth, I've seen on numerous occasions how the can't hit paper crowd can't hit game either, or how they conveniently leave out the part about how many misses they have had.
Not every hunter is a shooter, nor is every shooter a hunter, but for the situations you want to get into you better hope your both.
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07-05-2007, 11:37 AM
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Dick, Dick, Dick....tsk tsk tsk.
Okay, first things first, retract the claws a bit...then take a deep breath and step awaaaay from the puta. I know a few guides and i've heard all the stories from these guides(especially about the range pros) so at least admit you know the point i was trying to make?...the best stories come from the bear camps imo. Second...i was trying to have some fun with my comments to the naysayers and in no way was i trying to belittle Cat's abilities...in fact was hoping my jestering would compliment them further in some way? ...... although i didn't think much about hitting the mole hill at 608 with my rig except that it was 'neat' but to do that with iron sights completely baffles me and i am amazed....that puts that whole 'clay pigeon behind the crosshair' thing in a totally new light eh?
And the last thing is...
Quote:
Not every hunter is a shooter, nor is every shooter a hunter, but for the situations you want to get into you better hope your both.
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Yeah....thats me man. I just don't practice via competitions and public ranges...doesn't mean anything except that many of you won't believe anything i say...and thats what keeps it fun and exciting doesn't it?
Okay...two last things...i love that unless i'm a reloader and into custom guns and funky calibers that i can't shoot like i say i'm shooting. Can't do that with factory guns and ammo these days? Yeah...okay boss.
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 07-05-2007 at 11:45 AM.
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07-05-2007, 11:50 AM
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shooting
That deffintly is one way to back up what your claiming to do,post some pictures, not sure if you have hunted much or shot much stinker, but you really need to take the things these guys say into consideration and use them in the field, they've been around and it comes from experience. and if your going to take the chance at a squeeker ram for your first one and shoot it out past 300 i pray to god you have a damn good eye for judging rams, it takes alot of experience to judge a legal ram and if your wrong by 1/4 inch, ill guarntee your gonna pay the price. 300 yards or less for us guys that havent killed sheep before, its just not worth taking a longer shot.
ive guided ram hunters and have judged a few rams, legal and not legal,guided 5 billy goats and shot one myself,and i still would never shoot out past 300 in the mountains until i had the confidence in my shooting and rifles and EXPERIENCE, there is a few guys here that would take the shot,and make it, like nube, but he has been around for a long time and lives in the hills.
All this info is deffintly getting stored upstairs for my upcoming sheep hunts, hopefully it is for you too.
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07-05-2007, 11:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
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What's the factory fodder comment about????
And your insinuation about me being a range pro are laughable, the point I tried to make is, that's if that comment was for me, I am not a range pro. I'm a guy who hunts and shoots.
The diffrence between you and me is I'm willing to put something behind my words other than punctuation.
So on that note all I have to say is adios and good luck sheep hunting.
Be responsable.
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07-05-2007, 12:00 PM
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I tend to not post my photos online anymore so i've deleted them, so if your into this late then too bad so sad. I just save that stuff for me and those close to me. Anyhow, hope you'll understand. Next time i'm forced to put up i'll just pm the corresponding folks my online pic album and password etc. and do it that way. Adios
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 07-05-2007 at 02:31 PM.
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07-05-2007, 12:06 PM
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Well you are an ackomplished archer for sure.
nice deer, congrats.
But I still think my wangers bigger than yours.
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07-05-2007, 12:08 PM
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More editing...
Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 07-05-2007 at 02:32 PM.
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07-05-2007, 12:09 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Wait wait...i wanna measure my peepee too. Here we go....
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very nice pictures stinker,
were you able to get a measurement.
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07-05-2007, 12:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
Well you are an ackomplished archer for sure.
nice deer, congrats.
But I still think my wangers bigger than yours.
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I'm guessing you might have a little more displacement but mine's longer and skinnier.
Sorry...second post came a little slow...didn't see your reply till i posted second set of pics...they still don't have enough room with only 10 pics per post.
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