20 gauge for pheasant

[Echo-Gecko]

Hi all
I'm thinking about a shotgun for upland birds and have never owned a 20 gauge before but like the idea of low recoil and a lighter weight gun if I'm going to be carrying it around all day.

Up to 30-35 meters would a 20g kill pheasants as reliably as a 12?
Or would I be better going with a 12?

[Justfishin73]

20 ga works fine, much lighter--pretty tough to find a decent well priced over/under though.

Sure was tired of carrying my big old 12 ga by days end last year

[Justfishin73]

I picked up one of these for about $500 instead---not high quality, but much lighter, single trigger and can change chokes

http://torunarms.com/en/torun-207-cifte-av-tufegi.html

[Echo-Gecko]

Originally Posted by Justfishin73

20 ga works fine, much lighter--pretty tough to find a decent well priced over/under though.

Sure was tired of carrying my big old 12 ga by days end last year

Is there an action type that you prefer?
I sure can't justify a $2000 or more gun for the amount of shooting that I do.
I've been looking at Huglu or CZ for doubles they seem to be pretty affordable.

I'd be open to a semi auto or pump too but don't know much about them.
I have a remington 870 12 guage that I shoot ok and have owned a Browning BPS in the past, but I don't think it fit me well I couldn't hit anything with it without having to bend my neck down into the stock.

I've never been much of a shotgun shooter and open to suggestions.

[pikergolf]

Are you hunting release or wild birds?

[Justfishin73]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

Is there an action type that you prefer?
I sure can't justify a $2000 or more gun for the amount of shooting that I do.
I've been looking at Huglu or CZ for doubles they seem to be pretty affordable.

I'd be open to a semi auto or pump too but don't know much about them.
I have a remington 870 12 guage that I shoot ok and have owned a Browning BPS in the past, but I don't think it fit me well I couldn't hit anything with it without having to bend my neck down into the stock.

I've never been much of a shotgun shooter and open to suggestions.

I do love me some shotguns. I don't have a dog, and most guys I go with are pretty strict about break action for dog safety--which I understand. I have a nice 12 ga for trap, but its a tank, and not fun to lug around all day. Ive been looking for a decent over/under 20 ga for my boy with little success. Stevens 555 is ok, but so light , has a good kick.

Guess it more depends on if you are hunting over a dog or not (brutal without one)

Released or wild wouldn't matter

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

Is there an action type that you prefer?
I sure can't justify a $2000 or more gun for the amount of shooting that I do.
I've been looking at Huglu or CZ for doubles they seem to be pretty affordable.

I'd be open to a semi auto or pump too but don't know much about them.
I have a remington 870 12 guage that I shoot ok and have owned a Browning BPS in the past, but I don't think it fit me well I couldn't hit anything with it without having to bend my neck down into the stock.

I've never been much of a shotgun shooter and open to suggestions.

The Huglu /CZ doubles are quite good for the price. Prophet River carries a good selection of Huglu. I choose a SxS with two triggers, so I have an instant choice of two chokes, but that is just personal preference. As far as killing pheasants at 30-35 meters, the 20 gauge will be plenty. You can buy 2-3/4" loads for the 20 gauge with 1-1/8 ounces of shot, which is more than enough for any pheasant.

[Echo-Gecko]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Are you hunting release or wild birds?

I'd probably do both, I hope

[Echo-Gecko]

Originally Posted by Justfishin73

I do love me some shotguns. I don't have a dog, and most guys I go with are pretty strict about break action for dog safety--which I understand. I have a nice 12 ga for trap, but its a tank, and not fun to lug around all day. Ive been looking for a decent over/under 20 ga for my boy with little success. Stevens 555 is ok, but so light , has a good kick.

Guess it more depends on if you are hunting over a dog or not (brutal without one)

Released or wild wouldn't matter

I don't have a dog and probably won't have one anytime soon.
So I'd be doing a lot of walking and very little shooting.
I have to say I'm really partial to a double of some sorts but having a hard time deciding whether I should go SxS or O/U.

[Echo-Gecko]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Huglu /CZ doubles are quite good for the price. Prophet River carries a good selection of Huglu. I choose a SxS with two triggers, so I have an instant choice of two chokes, but that is just personal preference. As far as killing pheasants at 30-35 meters, the 20 gauge will be plenty. You can buy 2-3/4" loads for the 20 gauge with 1-1/8 ounces of shot, which is more than enough for any pheasant.

Thats great to hear, did you go with a 12 or a 20?
As far as barrel length would a 26" barrel be better than a 28" for upland?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

Thats great to hear, did you go with a 12 or a 20?
As far as barrel length would a 26" barrel be better than a 28" for upland?

Personally, I normally use a 28 gauge, but I do have a 16 gauge that I also use on occasion, generally when backing up friends that don't shoot very well.lol My regular hunting partner uses a 410 for released birds, and he kills a lot of birds, but we hunt over a pointing dog, and he shoots very fast. I wouldn't use a 410 myself, and I wouldn't recommend one either, but he does well with his at 15-25 yards.

I tend to prefer 28" barrels, but I am used to shooting 30 or 32" barrels for skeet and sporting clays.

[Justfishin73]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

I don't have a dog and probably won't have one anytime soon.
So I'd be doing a lot of walking and very little shooting.
I have to say I'm really partial to a double of some sorts but having a hard time deciding whether I should go SxS or O/U.

O/U could do double duty as a trap gun. SxS was my first shotgun, mine was bought more for sentimentality, and a lighter weight. Probably only used 3 times a year, was hard to spend much more than I did

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

I don't have a dog and probably won't have one anytime soon.
So I'd be doing a lot of walking and very little shooting.
I have to say I'm really partial to a double of some sorts but having a hard time deciding whether I should go SxS or O/U.

If you don't have a dog, you will do a lot more walking, and far less shooting than a hunter with a dog, whether the birds are wild or released. And with no idea when or where a bird might flush, by the time you get on the birds, the ranges will likely be longer.

As far as the choice between a SxS or an O/U goes, it is pretty much personal preference. The selection of lower priced SxS guns is much more limited, there isn't a lot available in decent SxS shotguns in the $1000 or under range. Huglu/CZ are two of the better SxS options in that price range. And then there is the option of one trigger vs two.

[pikergolf]

In my experience, birds are more likely to get up closer to you without a dog. The down side is you never know when that will be and by the time your heart starts beating again they will be well on their way. I recommend a 12 ga. to anyone one that hunts wild birds, especially late season birds that tend to get up farther out. You can go as light as 7/8 oz to as heavy as 1 3/8 oz with a twelve gauge. Shells are usually cheaper and available anywhere. My two cents.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Huglu /CZ doubles are quite good for the price. Prophet River carries a good selection of Huglu. I choose a SxS with two triggers, so I have an instant choice of two chokes, but that is just personal preference. As far as killing pheasants at 30-35 meters, the 20 gauge will be plenty. You can buy 2-3/4" loads for the 20 gauge with 1-1/8 ounces of shot, which is more than enough for any pheasant.

Have you ever patterned 1 1/8 oz of shot out of a 2 3/4 in 20? What do you shoot out of the 28 gauge?

Sorry about the derail. I shoot the 20s mostly with 1 oz of #6 or 5. I also like the 12 later on when all the cover is beat down and the leaves are off. I shoot 1 1/8 2 3/4 in field loads of #5 in the 12s. I also take the 28 out and it kills pheasants fine over the dogs. I especially like it when hunting cattails and the flushes are right in your face. I shoot 1 oz loads of # 6 in the 28 but the patterns are not much better than the target loads of # 7 1/2 3/4 oz.

For wild pheasants I would prefer a 1 1/4 oz light magnum type load out of 12 in # 4. The same load out of my 20s in 3 inch does not pattern as well so I would probably stick with 1 oz and tighten up the chokes to mod/full.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Have you ever patterned 1 1/8 oz of shot out of a 2 3/4 in 20? What do you shoot out of the 28 gauge?

Sorry about the derail. I shoot the 20s mostly with 1 oz of #6 or 5. I also like the 12 later on when all the cover is beat down and the leaves are off. I shoot 1 1/8 2 3/4 in field loads of #5 in the 12s. I also take the 28 out and it kills pheasants fine over the dogs. I especially like it when hunting cattails and the flushes are right in your face. I shoot 1 oz loads of # 6 in the 28 but the patterns are not much better than the target loads of # 7 1/2 3/4 oz.

For wild pheasants I would prefer a 1 1/4 oz light magnum type load out of 12 in # 4. The same load out of my 20s in 3 inch does not pattern as well so I would probably stick with 1 oz and tighten up the chokes to mod/full.

I haven't patterned the 1-1/8 ounce 20 gauge loads on paper, but I have reliably killed birds at up to 50 yards with them, using an IM choke, so the pattern is obviously adequate. That being said, I am down to my last box of those Winchester loads, and I will be using the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 1 ounce loads exclusively, when they are gone. I don't use the 20 gauge often, so that may take a while. In the 28 gauge, I use the 7/8 ounce Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads exclusively. I have tried the 1 ounce Winchester loads, but the only difference that I noticed with them, was that the slower moving unplated pellets penetrated less, and dragged more feathers into the flesh. I also use the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads in my 16 gauge. I use #6 exclusively, regardless of gauge, and the plated shot at around 1300fps is very effective.

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by Echo-Gecko

As far as barrel length would a 26" barrel be better than a 28" for upland?

I switched from a 26" to 28" SxS for grouse and woodcock and am very happy with that bbl oal. I wouldn't go over 26 with a pump or semi. These bbl lengths would be fine for pheasant as well.

I could see my 30" SxS 12ga working for pheasant.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I haven't patterned the 1-1/8 ounce 20 gauge loads on paper, but I have reliably killed birds at up to 50 yards with them, using an IM choke, so the pattern is obviously adequate. That being said, I am down to my last box of those Winchester loads, and I will be using the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 1 ounce loads exclusively, when they are gone. I don't use the 20 gauge often, so that may take a while. In the 28 gauge, I use the 7/8 ounce Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads exclusively. I have tried the 1 ounce Winchester loads, but the only difference that I noticed with them, was that the slower moving unplated pellets penetrated less, and dragged more feathers into the flesh. I also use the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads in my 16 gauge. I use #6 exclusively, regardless of gauge, and the plated shot at around 1300fps is very effective.

I think that 7/8 oz would be ideal in the 28. I don’t know if you have read about the theory that suggests squaring the load. In theory the ideal load for the 28 is 3/4oz. The shot would be the same height as width and in theory produce an ideal shot string. 7/8 apparently is ideal for the 20. I did pick up some 7/8 oz field/target loads for grouse and clays and it performs very well in the 20.

[32-40win]

20ga is a nice balance for upland, not too heavy to pack when walking, has enough punch to take birds reliably to 40 yds. I use it for ducks and geese as well, even been used on turkeys. The CZ/Huglu/Yildiz guns are a decent gun for hunting purposes, all have 3" chambers, which increases versatility. You can change the load and choke to suit your needs for what you are doing with it, lots of variety in loads available. Both of mine are 28" bbls, I like the way they swing, not too heavy to pack around.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I think that 7/8 oz would be ideal in the 28. I don’t know if you have read about the theory that suggests squaring the load. In theory the ideal load for the 28 is 3/4oz. The shot would be the same height as width and in theory produce an ideal shot string. 7/8 apparently is ideal for the 20. I did pick up some 7/8 oz field/target loads for grouse and clays and it performs very well in the 20.

28 gauge target loads are typically 3/4 ounce, and 20 gauge target loads are typically 7/8 ounce, but for hunting, most manufacturers go to slightly heavier shot charges. These days, it seems that may people want to throw as much shot as they can, hence the recent 3" 28 gauge loads, and the 3" 20 gauge loads, and the 3-1/2" 12 gauge loads. A friend of mine used to use 3" magnum loads of #4 for pheasants, luckily, he rarely ever hit any birds with much of the pattern, or the birds would have been destroyed.

[32-40win]

Thing of it is , in lead shot loads anyway, you can match some 12ga 2-3/4" loads with a 3" 20. 20 seems to work better with some of those loads than the 12's do.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Thing of it is , in lead shot loads anyway, you can match some 12ga 2-3/4" loads with a 3" 20. 20 seems to work better with some of those loads than the 12's do.

Yes you can duplicate the ballistics, but can you duplicate the patterns with such long shot columns? If I am going to shoot 3" 20 gauge loads on a regular basis, I will just use a 12 gauge, and save money on ammunition, and absorb less recoil, from a heavier 12 gauge gun.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yes you can duplicate the ballistics, but can you duplicate the patterns with such long shot columns? If I am going to shoot 3" 20 gauge loads on a regular basis, I will just use a 12 gauge, and save money on ammunition, and absorb less recoil, from a heavier 12 gauge gun.

When I patterned the 1oz loads out of the 28 compared to the 3/4 I was very disappointed. There was more in the circle but lots of little groups with 2-5 pellets basically touching. If they arrived at different times due to a longer string I guess it could be advantageous on crossing shots if one miscalculated the lead.

I have not tried the Golden Pheasant loads but the target loads from Fiocchi are most impressive. I contacted an employee at Prophet River but he didn’t get back to me. Hopefully they will bring more in before shooting season.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

When I patterned the 1oz loads out of the 28 compared to the 3/4 I was very disappointed. There was more in the circle but lots of little groups with 2-5 pellets basically touching. If they arrived at different times due to a longer string I guess it could be advantageous on crossing shots if one miscalculated the lead.

I have not tried the Golden Pheasant loads but the target loads from Fiocchi are most impressive. I contacted an employee at Prophet River but he didn’t get back to me. Hopefully they will bring more in before shooting season.

I bought a couple of flats of the 28 gauge Golden Pheasant loads about five years ago, when they were around $130 per flat, but I had to buy some more last year. It has gone up, but it's still under $200 per flat, which is cheaper than most of the other manufacturers heavy field/pheasant loads. The nice thing about the Golden Pheasant loads, is that you don't pay a huge premium for the 28, all gauges are similarly priced. When I need more, I will just have Clay bring in another flat for me..

[catnthehat]

My 20 gauge load fir both wild and released birds is 7/8 or 1 Oz of plated 6’s or 7 1/2’s
My 28 gauge load is 7/8 Oz of nickel or copper 6’s or 7 1/2’s
Moving somewhere around 1350-1400 FPS
However I have also used 3/4 Oz loads as well

I Never worry too much about what I am shooting at, how far I am shooting at a bird is my big concern and I know instantly whether or not I should be attempting The shot or letting the bird go,be it with smokeless or BP regardless of gauge and shot charge .
I love shooting a bunch of different guns , but my go to smokeless gun for birds these days is my 20 gauge hammer double .
It is not the main gun I hunt with however !
That one is still my 1878 12 bore hammer gun with black powder cases !
Cat