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03-31-2019, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
Agree to some extent at normal hunting ranges. Once you get a bit out there the 7mm leaves the 308 in the dust.
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Actually the 7mm smokes the 308 at any range, even with smaller, off the shelf bullets. Faster, flatter, and more smack.
308 gets the job done for sure but 7mm would be my choice every day. Just as comfortable to shoot as well. Not much in Ab a 160 NP doesn't have an answer for.
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03-31-2019, 09:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,590
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Those Mesas seem to be a really nice gun at that price point! Me likey.
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03-31-2019, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Guys the problem isn’t the 308 cartridge, it’s the model 88 rifle. If you’ve never shot one, the trigger pull is on par with a DAO revolver. Just not conducive to accuracy and not a thing can be done to improve it due to the design of the action. It works well as a bush gun, at <200.
Don’t have the space to reload or a range near by, that will change next year. So I do intend to play around at longer ranges, but I want a cartridge that will keep a ttsx above 2000 FPS at 500 for hunting.
The minds of AO have spoken Oh well, can’t take it with ya, may as well enjoy it. Now to pick out a scope....
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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03-31-2019, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,546
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Why not get a 308 bolt action with a great trigger?
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03-31-2019, 10:50 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Morinville
Posts: 699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
Guys the problem isn’t the 308 cartridge, it’s the model 88 rifle. If you’ve never shot one, the trigger pull is on par with a DAO revolver. Just not conducive to accuracy and not a thing can be done to improve it due to the design of the action. It works well as a bush gun, at <200.
Don’t have the space to reload or a range near by, that will change next year. So I do intend to play around at longer ranges, but I want a cartridge that will keep a ttsx above 2000 FPS at 500 for hunting.
The minds of AO have spoken Oh well, can’t take it with ya, may as well enjoy it. Now to pick out a scope....
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Can't wait to see what scope you pick for it
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03-31-2019, 10:52 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 116
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7 rm
I’d look into a tikka 7 RM, put a limb saver on mine and I can shoot t all day long. Loading 168 vlds and retumbo and it shoots lights out.
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03-31-2019, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
Why not get a 308 bolt action with a great trigger?
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Because that would...be cheaper and make sense. The other rifle I’ve thought of is a T3X in 308. Eventually replace the plastic parts with metal. But once you’ve fixed everything that needs fixing (pillars, bottom metal, wildcat stock), you pretty much end up at the same price, or higher.
With the Mesa, it’s a case of I want it because I want it. And I know there’s a good chance that once I spend money I’ll arrow the bull in archery season
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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03-31-2019, 11:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
Actually the 7mm smokes the 308 at any range, even with smaller, off the shelf bullets. Faster, flatter, and more smack.
308 gets the job done for sure but 7mm would be my choice every day. Just as comfortable to shoot as well. Not much in Ab a 160 NP doesn't have an answer for.
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At shorter ranges the 7 mm has no advantage other than more damaged wasted meat
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03-31-2019, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
At shorter ranges the 7 mm has no advantage other than more damaged wasted meat
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Depending where you hit the animal, I’ve shot many deer with a 7 rm and 300 wm at close ranges and didn’t damage any meat. You’ll also gain ballistic advantage and peace of mind if you need to take a longer shot.
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03-31-2019, 12:10 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
At shorter ranges the 7 mm has no advantage other than more damaged wasted meat
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I haven't found that at all so I believe you're basing your statement on what you've read vs what you've witnessed.
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03-31-2019, 12:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
Guys the problem isn’t the 308 cartridge, it’s the model 88 rifle. If you’ve never shot one, the trigger pull is on par with a DAO revolver. Just not conducive to accuracy and not a thing can be done to improve it due to the design of the action. It works well as a bush gun, at <200.
Don’t have the space to reload or a range near by, that will change next year. So I do intend to play around at longer ranges, but I want a cartridge that will keep a ttsx above 2000 FPS at 500 for hunting.
The minds of AO have spoken Oh well, can’t take it with ya, may as well enjoy it. Now to pick out a scope....
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I put a VX-5HD 3-15x44 on mine. I was going for a 2-10 but after looking at them and the price & weight difference (not much) I went with the 3-15
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
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03-31-2019, 12:47 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AB
Posts: 6,661
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The 7MM STW is without a doubt the Boss rifle in my gun safe and my go to weapon of choice every fall since I’ve had it for about 8 years now...300 WBY West Germany is a close 2nd.
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03-31-2019, 01:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
I haven't found that at all so I believe you're basing your statement on what you've read vs what you've witnessed.
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I own 2 300 wm my bro has a 7 mm and I have 3 other friends with 7mm. Have been loading for both since early 2000s. Also own 2 308s and a 30-06'for comparison. Each year I harvest at least 3 deer between myself and my wife. Plus Elk and moose. We have our shop set up for butchering and have a small co-op between friends for butchering harvested animals taken within the group. Our biggest year we butchered 21 different big game animals over the course of the season. I have considerable experience in all aspects of harvesting. Magnums generally produce larger amounts of shot up meat compared to non magnums when shots are less than 400 yds. Of course bullet construction has a lot to play in this as well as loaded velocity. Your mileage might vary but my experience has been well proven year over year. Inside of 4-500 yds a magnum has no advantage over a std cartridge shooting a moderate weight bullet at moderate velocities.
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03-31-2019, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
I own 2 300 wm my bro has a 7 mm and I have 3 other friends with 7mm. Have been loading for both since early 2000s. Also own 2 308s and a 30-06'for comparison. Each year I harvest at least 3 deer between myself and my wife. Plus Elk and moose. We have our shop set up for butchering and have a small co-op between friends for butchering harvested animals taken within the group. Our biggest year we butchered 21 different big game animals over the course of the season. I have considerable experience in all aspects of harvesting. Magnums generally produce larger amounts of shot up meat compared to non magnums when shots are less than 400 yds. Of course bullet construction has a lot to play in this as well as loaded velocity. Your mileage might vary but my experience has been well proven year over year. Inside of 4-500 yds a magnum has no advantage over a std cartridge shooting a moderate weight bullet at moderate velocities.
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Lots of truth right there ^^^ Many would do well to read.
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03-31-2019, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
At shorter ranges the 7 mm has no advantage other than more damaged wasted meat
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That is a bullet selection issue. Not a cartridge selection issue.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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03-31-2019, 01:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,267
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Cartridge debate when it comes to killing big game in Alberta out to four or five hundred yards is largely a waste of good breath.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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03-31-2019, 02:46 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
I own 2 300 wm my bro has a 7 mm and I have 3 other friends with 7mm. Have been loading for both since early 2000s. Also own 2 308s and a 30-06'for comparison. Each year I harvest at least 3 deer between myself and my wife. Plus Elk and moose. We have our shop set up for butchering and have a small co-op between friends for butchering harvested animals taken within the group. Our biggest year we butchered 21 different big game animals over the course of the season. I have considerable experience in all aspects of harvesting. Magnums generally produce larger amounts of shot up meat compared to non magnums when shots are less than 400 yds. Of course bullet construction has a lot to play in this as well as loaded velocity. Your mileage might vary but my experience has been well proven year over year. Inside of 4-500 yds a magnum has no advantage over a std cartridge shooting a moderate weight bullet at moderate velocities.
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I respect your opinion but I don't hear anything similar about the 280 and there's not a massive difference. 100 fps in most cases. I don't see a difference between my 270 , 7mm, and 338 to be honest and to tell the truth the biggest carnage I've seen has been from my Creedmoor shooting 140s.
Partitions hold together pretty reasonably imo. Ballistic tips maybe not as well but I've never used them so can't say for sure.
Stumped on why a 300wm would perform any more surgically.
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03-31-2019, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
That is a bullet selection issue. Not a cartridge selection issue.
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Its also a placement issue and velocity issue ECT.......please point out the BEST bullet for minimum damage at shorter range with a 7mm that leaves a 308 win in the dust at similar distances as was stated. The magnums are great hunting rounds but facts are they don't do anything any better at modest distances than std cartridges do. I sure haven't seen it all but I've seen lots. Partitions, e tips,tsx,ballistic tips,accubonds,hot core,interbonds, interlocks, power points, ECT....in deer at velocities from 3000 fps to less then 1000fps my experience is speed often creates more damaged meat.
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03-31-2019, 03:30 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
I respect your opinion but I don't hear anything similar about the 280 and there's not a massive difference. 100 fps in most cases. I don't see a difference between my 270 , 7mm, and 338 to be honest and to tell the truth the biggest carnage I've seen has been from my Creedmoor shooting 140s.
Partitions hold together pretty reasonably imo. Ballistic tips maybe not as well but I've never used them so can't say for sure.
Stumped on why a 300wm would perform any more surgically.
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I don't believe the 300 to be more surgical in any respects. As for magnums the 7 is right up there as a hunting performer I just don't happen to own one.
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03-31-2019, 04:10 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
Its also a placement issue and velocity issue ECT.......please point out the BEST bullet for minimum damage at shorter range with a 7mm that leaves a 308 win in the dust at similar distances as was stated. The magnums are great hunting rounds but facts are they don't do anything any better at modest distances than std cartridges do. I sure haven't seen it all but I've seen lots. Partitions, e tips,tsx,ballistic tips,accubonds,hot core,interbonds, interlocks, power points, ECT....in deer at velocities from 3000 fps to less then 1000fps my experience is speed often creates more damaged meat.
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The OP stated he wanted something with more oomph, for potentially longer shots and was considering a 7mm. I simply agreed with his step up. You appear to be the only one making potentially damaging meat an issue. One I do not agree with and I pointed to the much lauded 280 as a close comparison that I've also never heard of meat damage being on its list of attributes.
Answer is simple here. If you don't want the potential for damaged meat....Don't shoot animals in the MEAT.
7mm's a step up cartridge from 308. In pretty much every way outside the cost of handloading and for what the OP is looking for it sounds like very good option.
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03-31-2019, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
The OP stated he wanted something with more oomph, for potentially longer shots and was considering a 7mm. I simply agreed with his step up. You appear to be the only one making potentially damaging meat an issue. One I do not agree with and I pointed to the much lauded 280 as a close comparison that I've also never heard of meat damage being on its list of attributes.
Answer is simple here. If you don't want the potential for damaged meat....Don't shoot animals in the MEAT.
7mm's a step up cartridge from 308. In pretty much every way outside the cost of handloading and for what the OP is looking for it sounds like very good option.
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Op stated it was likely in that area shots would be within bow range....i have no dispute the 7mm is a step up and fantastic performer out past " normal" hunting ranges. My point is within " normal " ranges it has no advantage. For longer shots the 7mm is a great choice. Within bow range it holds no advantage... as for shooting meat....no one intentionally shoots " meat" but when bullets hit bone either on entrance or exit they create damage. Generally speaking the faster the bullet the more damage. I have often seen offside shoulders shot on slight quartering away shots as well as near shoulders shot on steep quartering shots. Have also had a 180 gr etip destroy a front shoulder and travel through the rear quarter on a mule doe on an extreamly steep quartering two angle. Shot was at 165 yards
For a high horse power round capable of longer range kills the 7RM is a good choice. I think the op will be very happy with his new rifle
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03-31-2019, 05:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Shots on this hunt may well be close, but there are some open areas. Hard quartering shots are likely, and on an elk, there’s a lot to go through. I like exit wounds.
The rifle is also gonna be used on antelope, big coulee mulies, and possibly caribou and blacktails. Lots of open country. The 7 rm can shoot through an elk and reach out for the others. Ttsx has to impact at >2000 FPS and the 7 rm does that to 500 easy. The 308 does not.
Meat damage is minimized with monometals, but not eliminated. if it’s a choice between losing a shoulder and not killing an elk, I’ll live with the damage. After 10 or so empty elk tags, it’s time to fill one
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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03-31-2019, 05:59 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeiteasybird
I put a VX-5HD 3-15x44 on mine. I was going for a 2-10 but after looking at them and the price & weight difference (not much) I went with the 3-15
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
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Nice. That one is on the list, always happy with my leupolds thus far. Gotta look through Swaro and Zeiss as well.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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03-31-2019, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
Shots on this hunt may well be close, but there are some open areas. Hard quartering shots are likely, and on an elk, there’s a lot to go through. I like exit wounds.
The rifle is also gonna be used on antelope, big coulee mulies, and possibly caribou and blacktails. Lots of open country. The 7 rm can shoot through an elk and reach out for the others. Ttsx has to impact at >2000 FPS and the 7 rm does that to 500 easy. The 308 does not.
Meat damage is minimized with monometals, but not eliminated. if it’s a choice between losing a shoulder and not killing an elk, I’ll live with the damage. After 10 or so empty elk tags, it’s time to fill one
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Best of luck filing your Elk tag. They can be tough critters to hang a tag on.
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03-31-2019, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
Nice. That one is on the list, always happy with my leupolds thus far. Gotta look through Swaro and Zeiss as well.
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When second guessing my self a month later I say why the heck didn't I buy that,it's not just about the cartridge or cal,it's about wanting that certain rifle.
Life is short and as long as you can afford it which I don't think that's the problem just go buy it,that rifle in that cartridge you can sell very easy.
You will enjoy it,your not going in for heart surgery it's just another rifle.
In 20 years you will look back and just laugh about it.
ALL the best
JD
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04-01-2019, 11:42 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: West of Edmonton
Posts: 2,314
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The 308 is a great cartridge, but if I was looking for new rifle that is made to handle a 4-500yard shot on a big bull, It would be a 7, or 300 mag. Of course many other lesser cartridges can do it when the stars align. The big thing is "You" need to have faith in the rifle combo. When the chips are down, I grab my 300 Win. I also hunt with 6.5x55, and 7-08, both will do the job, but the 300 is so far my choice when it just has to get done
I also agree your 88 isn't up to the task at 4-500 yards. Good on you for recognizing that now, don't wait for September.
PS if I didn't already have my 300 Win, I'd probably go 7Rem.
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04-14-2019, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Something sexy followed me home
Sylvestre in bonnyville even had it in the new color!! Made a nice little road trip. Very, very happy Cant wait to stretch it out but still haven’t decided on the optics. Very smooth bolt, perfect trigger, not a single blemish I can see.
As a side note, I was 70/30 for the 7rm vs the 6.5 PRC....but once I put the 7 to my shoulder it was an easy choice. The long action balances and points much better for my build, the 6.5 had that tikka/xboltish excessive muzzle heavy feel which I have never liked nor found to improve with optics. Just goes to show you have to try them out for yourself.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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04-14-2019, 02:57 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
Something sexy followed me home
Sylvestre in bonnyville even had it in the new color!! Made a nice little road trip. Very, very happy Cant wait to stretch it out but still haven’t decided on the optics. Very smooth bolt, perfect trigger, not a single blemish I can see.
As a side note, I was 70/30 for the 7rm vs the 6.5 PRC....but once I put the 7 to my shoulder it was an easy choice. The long action balances and points much better for my build, the 6.5 had that tikka/xboltish excessive muzzle heavy feel which I have never liked nor found to improve with optics. Just goes to show you have to try them out for yourself.
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Nice choice
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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04-14-2019, 07:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,280
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You dont need a magnum, get a 30 Nosler
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04-14-2019, 08:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm
You dont need a magnum, get a 30 Nosler
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Now you're talking.
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