City of Edmonton being more and more difficult to work with

[nast70]

We work with the city on several projects through out the year. Most recent is the Fort Edm. Park Midway renovation. Our project is small in the grand scheme of things, about $19,000.00. So far over $4000 (and counting) has been added the project quote to make up for red tape additions that they have never requested in the past. The latest is a bond. For a project of less than $100,000? They must have really miss calculated the project cost and need to spend the budget or they lose it all next time.
Realistically, our project is about 2 week production, 5 hours install and done. It's no wonder you hear stories about contractors and subs walking off City Sites. More trouble than its worth in some eyes.
All I can do is keep adding to the file.....

[Trochu]

I guy I work with poured a concrete approach from the street to a sidewalk that lead to a commercial businesses parking lot. The inspector told him to rip it all out as it was 0.5 degrees to steep. He tried explaining that he just matched it from the street to the sidewalk, and if he built it in spec., there would be a bump/tripping hazard right near the sidewalk. Had to go over his head to the supervisor before reason kicked in.

[Grizzly Adams]

I always found small contractors and government don't mix well. They love the big guys who contribute funds for re-election. Above is a good post, union guys know their rules and stick to them. Once had to cut 200 sheets of plywood, because the truss layout was in metric and the plywood was imperial .

Grizz

[Stonecutter]

I'm a former CoE project manager. I worked other places for 19 years before I joined the city. I couldn't stand it for very long because we were so jammed up with process and consultation and red tape it was hard to do anything in a timely fashion.

For a couple of my projects I had a tender process, awarded the contract, contractor did the work, we had inspections and permits closed out, declared substantial, contractor rectified deficiencies and both the consultants and myself were satisfied. Tried to process final acceptance (CCC) and got nothing but grief from city mgmt because "there's no way we are going to accept that this fast!" The contractor did everything to fulfill his contract but too quickly I guess...

I could tell you horror stories that will make you want to move out of the city. I say that because it made me move out of the city... It was hard to want to contribute as a taxpayer when you see some of what happens behind the scenes. Kinda like when you see how hot dogs are made, you don't want to have one for a few days? I don't want to have a CoE hot dog for a few years...

[ghostguy6]

I fabricated much of the cabinet signs for one of the ETS expansions and what a cluster F*** it was dealing with the city. Not one blueprint they ever gave us was right. Who ever did their measuring didn't know how to read a tape measure. I literally had one that read 16' 8" and 3.2 mm for one single measurement. Later I also figured out that the city was converting measurements from metric to imperial with the wrong ratio. They used the formula 1inch = 25 millimeters when 1 inch really equals 25.4millimeters. None of the mounting holes they had me drill lined up. Often the power was on the wrong side. Even the vinyl had to be redone because the city didn't know the difference between north and south. Not a single sign that left the shop was correct because of the cities screw ups. Of course every blueprint needed to be corrected by the city engineer and you can imagine trying to explain to engineer they are wrong. Eventually I went out to some of the sites, underwent their safety orientations and took my own measurements. Three hour orientations to spend 5 minutes measuring.

To this day I'm still ashamed of those jobs. The final product looked like crap because of all the re work and retro fitting that had to be done to make them "just work".

[Bigwoodsman]

We had the people from the YHT project come to our office earlier this week and explain how this will effect our business and the streets in our area.

When they were leaving I asked if our in put was valuable to them. The engineer said he learned not to come here at 4:30 because the traffic is nuts.

BW

[jpohlic]

I work for a home builder in town and it's beyond ridiculous what the city demands and how long they take to issue permits.

Don't have the correct signage on your site when the inspector shows up... he'll turn around and leave and send you a bill

Oh, you applied for a permit based on the information we require... well now we require something else that we didn't tell you about... and your application goes back to the bottom of the pile

Still haven't received your building permit after waiting for 2-3 months... oh well, nothing you can do about it but complain and wait

We're looking at other markets because Edmonton is the absolute worst municipality to deal with. And in my experience they are even worse than the towns of Banff and Jasper with their added national park requirements.

On a personal note... I can't wait to move out of this city

[Dewey Cox]

Moved out of Edmonton 6 years ago, and haven't looked back.
Sooo happy to not pay property tax to support the stupidity any more.

[58thecat]

Milk them as they milk the tax payers.......

[marky_mark]

You go work at the city of Edmonton when your not good enough to get a job with a real company. Terrible place to work

[Soab]

Sounds like lethbridge

[npbra]

Cities have a habit of hiring the bottom of the class, can pay less.

[NKP]

Moved out coming up on a year. Glad i’m not paying them anymore.

[fishtank]

Well 2/3 contractors have drop out of the west lrt expansion... personally I have seen how wasteful and incompetent some of the work are done. Too many desk folks and not enough real workers .

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by npbra

Cities have a habit of hiring the bottom of the class, can pay less.

And visible minorities who can barely speak English. There's a political agenda there.

Grizz

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

And visible minorities who can barely speak English. There's a political agenda there.

Grizz

Most likely it’s just the work cheap but the whole equal opportunity hiring stuff theses days you never know

[Gerry]

The province is the same.
I worked on a new 2 story building job out of town. Nothing in the area was higher.
The painters had to paint the flashing on the top of the building. It was all done according to spec, proper primer and paint. There was about 2 to 2 1/2
Kilometers of flashing. They used a roller to paint the flat top, which to me would make sense to save time. The inspector told them NO it has to be done by brushing, strip it and redo it with a brush. They had to redo the whole thing. Why, nobody was going to see it unless they were on top of the building.

Another project, and most of you will know this one but not the circumstances.
The small entrance kiosks at Carson lake. The carpenters were amazed at the blueprints. The kiosks, all of them, had to be built roof first and the rest built under them.

Last one.
Rebuilding a provincial park that got flooded out real bad, so bad they were pulling the outhouses out of 20 foot trees. The rebuilt outhouses were built with a cement cistern. They spent over 1 and a half million on that project, and built it in the exact same place where it would wash out again and it did 2 years later.

So it's not only the city.

[Map Maker]

Well. A lot of tall tales I figure here,

First, any drafting program is going to convert mm to inches using the right value. That is one of the drafting program's main feature. It's not like the city draftsman has a calculator doing every single dimension.


If the inspector said it had to be with a brush then that was the manufacturer spec or in the spec. It definitely not because of how it looked. The contractor estimator goofed on that one.

There is no way a roof would have to be built first. Maybe there was some missing dimensions but I'll call bs on that one.

No project is ever perfect, that's what change orders are for. If something isn't clear or correct, get the owner to explain, correct and/or change order.

Municipal and provincial jobs can be very lucrative and worth spending time bidding on.

[Grizzly Adams]

There is no way a roof would have to be built first. Maybe there was some missing dimensions but I'll call bs on that one.

No BS. Blueprints were metric, lumber was and still is Imperial . Just a totally uncompromising attitude. the Super went down the road shortly after.

Grizz

[Map Maker]

So it asked for 38 x 89mm lumber for a 2x4 or did it ask for a 50 x 100mm?


The reason draftsman and engineers work in metric is because it's very easy to do calculations.
It's easy for a draftsman to convert over to imperial for building purposes.

So when you were bidding on the project, why wasn't it brought up then?

They say a problem changed in design cost $1 but if it gets changed during construction, it's now worth $366.

Even if it was a jerk super, as long as you build to the plans and spec, not much he can do.

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Gerry

The province is the same.
I worked on a new 2 story building job out of town. Nothing in the area was higher.
The painters had to paint the flashing on the top of the building. It was all done according to spec, proper primer and paint. There was about 2 to 2 1/2
Kilometers of flashing. They used a roller to paint the flat top, which to me would make sense to save time. The inspector told them NO it has to be done by brushing, strip it and redo it with a brush. They had to redo the whole thing. Why, nobody was going to see it unless they were on top of the building.

Another project, and most of you will know this one but not the circumstances.
The small entrance kiosks at Carson lake. The carpenters were amazed at the blueprints. The kiosks, all of them, had to be built roof first and the rest built under them.

Last one.
Rebuilding a provincial park that got flooded out real bad, so bad they were pulling the outhouses out of 20 foot trees. The rebuilt outhouses were built with a cement cistern. They spent over 1 and a half million on that project, and built it in the exact same place where it would wash out again and it did 2 years later.

So it's not only the city.

There are certain coatings that the manufacturers specify to spray or brush, but to not use a roller. You gotta get data sheets from the coating manufacturer and follow them.

[Gerry]

"There is no way a roof would have to be built first. Maybe there was some missing dimensions but I'll call bs on that one."

You fellows may call this as bull, but I was there and saw this and was shown the blueprints for myself.
Wish I could remember the carpenters names for confirmation, but this was in 1980 and my memory isn't what it was. They were from Whitecourt, I remember that.

As for the painting, I was told that there was nothing in the specs about what to use.

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

I fabricated much of the cabinet signs for one of the ETS expansions and what a cluster F*** it was dealing with the city. Not one blueprint they ever gave us was right. Who ever did their measuring didn't know how to read a tape measure. I literally had one that read 16' 8" and 3.2 mm for one single measurement. Later I also figured out that the city was converting measurements from metric to imperial with the wrong ratio. They used the formula 1inch = 25 millimeters when 1 inch really equals 25.4millimeters. None of the mounting holes they had me drill lined up. Often the power was on the wrong side. Even the vinyl had to be redone because the city didn't know the difference between north and south. Not a single sign that left the shop was correct because of the cities screw ups. Of course every blueprint needed to be corrected by the city engineer and you can imagine trying to explain to engineer they are wrong. Eventually I went out to some of the sites, underwent their safety orientations and took my own measurements. Three hour orientations to spend 5 minutes measuring.

To this day I'm still ashamed of those jobs. The final product looked like crap because of all the re work and retro fitting that had to be done to make them "just work".

^^^ All true.

I did a bunch of installs at transit & LRT stations (same disfuctional company as ghostguy) and installs would take easily two to three times and a lot longer as expected due to nothing lining up, almost every sign at Southgate LRT are custom fit, because they had to be.

The biggest problem with dealing with the city is they are anti common sense