16 foot boat engine size

[Dezso]

Purchased a new boat from a local dealership.
16’x93” with 60HP outbound.
Yesterday after 2hr taking it home we hit Wabamun.
4 person (2 young adults, 2 adults not overweight) we can’t get it up on plain, not my first boat and fished with lots of friends with 16’ 50-60HP their boat with 4 person got up on plain just fine even if toke a bit longer 10-15s
Toke it back to the dealership today morning and one of the first things I got is I have to much expectation or need a bigger engine.
A 16’ with 60HP 4 person will never go up on plain they say.
Anyone can back me up or I’m screwed ☹️
What can I do, how to resolve it, what legal right I have ?
Thanks

Dezso

[elkhunter11]

Get a prop with a lower pitch. It will reduce top speed a bit with one or two people, but it will plane. That being said, I went with a 75 on my 16' Lund, because I like to go with the largest engine the boat is rated for.

[nick0danger]

Did you properly break in the motor?

[Dean2]

This is really not that complicated. Boat sticker will have a max horsepower rating. It will also have a maximum capacity sticker on it, what is that number. Take the weight of the motor, fuel, accessories and people and add them up What does that add up to. Now, how much does your bare hull weigh. What is the maximum rated horsepower. What pitch prop, how many blades, stainless or aluminium on what make of motor. Two stroke or 4. Make of boat, hull style, glass or Aluminum.

Four people at 150 each is 600 pounds. Most 60 horse four strokes will weigh in a min of 250 pounds then 5 pounds per gallon of gas. Doesn't take long to hit a 1000 lbs.

With that information I can tell you if the boat will plane with the motor that is on it. Without that info we would all just be guessing.

[Dezso]

Smoker Craft 162 Pro Angler XL
Yamaha 4 stroke fuel injected.
Engine and boat new (engine now have 1HR)
Adding our weight together 679lb

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by Dezso

Smoker Craft 162 Pro Angler XL
Yamaha 4 stroke fuel injected.
Engine and boat new (engine now have 1HR)
Adding our weight together 679lb

Did you follow Yamaha's break in procedures?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dezso

Smoker Craft 162 Pro Angler XL
Yamaha 4 stroke fuel injected.
Engine and boat new (engine now have 1HR)
Adding our weight together 679lb

Max load capacity is 700 lbs, as people weight is 679 lbs, motor is least 250 according to the Yamaha site and 22 gallons of gas is another 110, you are already at 1049 pounds. You are 350 pounds over the boats rated capacity and you are down 30 horse from the max rated horsepower. Add to that a hull that weighs 1140 pounds dry, I can't tell if that is just the hull or the hull and motor dry and I can see why it wont plane, you are trying to get from 1950 to 2,200 pounds on plane with 60 horse. Not likely gonna work, even with a smaller prop, though I would try that before going for a bigger motor..

It probably has a three blade alum 14 pitch on it from the factory. I would say a four blade stainless prop in 14" 10 pitch would probably be worth trying, just have to watch you don't over rev, max 6000 rpm, once you get up on step.

Here is what is on the Boat maker site:


Max Horsepower
90 hp
Beam
92 in
Dry Weight
1140 lb
Max Persons
5
Interior Depth
27 in
Transom Width
84 in
Max Capacity
700lbs
Fuel Capacity
22 gal
Length
16'4"
Number of Seats
2
Depth
35
Deadrise at Transom
10 deg

We really do try to help people out here on AO, but to expect us to look up the info rather than providing it when asked is going to severely limit the number of people willing to help.

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Lovely but you need to answer the rest of the questions. Max horsepower rating for boat. Max load capacity, as people weight is 679 lbs, motor is at least 250 and 20 gallons of gas is another 100, you are already at 1029 pounds. Weight of the hull, pitch of prop and number of blades.

Max Horsepower
90 hp
Beam
92 in
Dry Weight
1140 lbs
Max Persons
5
Interior Depth
27 in
Transom Width
84 in
Max Capacity
700 lbs
Fuel Capacity
22 gal
Length
16'4"
Number of Seats
2
Depth
35
Deadrise at Transom
10 deg

[oilngas]

I have a 16' Crest liner Fish Hawk. The engine is old technology carbed, two stroke oil injection. It will plane quite nicely with three adults and a child. Top speed is about 21 - 23 mph on the GPS. The boat and trailer weight 1200#'s. As others have said the max. HP via the hull plate is 75 hp, and i wish i had that, but she gets the job done, fished many lakes and a lot of hours. I think we are headed to Crawling tomorrow so if you want I will post the prop size after i pick it up.

[Dezso]

The prop is 12 pitch what comes with it, manager spoke with a dealership in Kelowna who puts 13 on this engine for the same boat. That would make it even worse for my boat as the engine is limiting at 4000RPM already.

I don’t feel god suddenly about this boat, it was already $30k I can’t afford a 90HP

[Dean2]

Duplicate for some reason

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dezso

The prop is 12 pitch what comes with it, manager spoke with a dealership in Kelowna who puts 13 on this engine for the same boat. That would make it even worse for my boat as the engine is limiting at 4000RPM already.

I don’t feel god suddenly about this boat, it was already $30k I can’t afford a 90HP

I edited my comments above and added this. So my guess on prop was close.

It probably has a three blade alum 14 pitch on it from the factory. I would say a four blade stainless prop in 14" 10 pitch would probably be worth trying, just have to watch you don't over rev, max 6000 rpm, once you get up on step.

If you are already at 12, then I might suggest you try the 4 blade 9 pitch if you are going to carry 4 people regualrly.

You should have bought the mint conditon V188 Warrior Dual console with 150 HP and an 8 horrse kicker I just sold. IT would have carried that load no problem and you would have been doing 45 mph with them on board. Just sold it for about 10,000 less than you paid for yours new. Too late for other options now. Best idea is to try and make what you have work for you. Let us know how you make out with the prop switch.

[Dezso]

What can’t get over is a friend just got a new 16’ Lund with 50HP and got up on plain just fine with 4 person, gears and full water livewell

[Ken07AOVette]

Legal right? You are kidding, surely.

Did you explain to the salesman that you were looking to haul 4 people and gear?

More to the point- did you expect the salesman to now everything about every boat and engine pertaining to every person and their needs and wants?

That is setting yourself up for failure sadly, as long as the engine is running top RPM you have what you have.

The onus is on you to research before you buy.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Dezso

What can’t get over is a friend just got a new 16’ Lund with 50HP and got up on plain just fine with 4 person, gears and full water livewell

Maybe it is just not running full rpm. What are you hitting?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dezso

What can’t get over is a friend just got a new 16’ Lund with 50HP and got up on plain just fine with 4 person, gears and full water livewell

You boat is VERY heavy for its length and it is also quite a wide boat and the width adds to the drag the motor must overcome.. That Lund your buddy has could easily be up to 600 pounds lighter than your boat, depending on the model. With boats that are standard V style it is all about how much weight you are trying to get out of the water, and how much hull resistance there is duw to shape, width etc

[nick0danger]

Finish the break in on the motor then see what happens. Shoulduld be only getting 2/3 rpm till that is complete

[EZM]

Not to beat a dead horse here ...... but ALWAYS get the max horsepower rated for the boat - so many people, over and over and over again end up EXACTLY where you are .... brand new boat, $30,000 spent and the thing won't even get on plane with a reasonable load.

I bet dollars to doughnuts, an investment of $35,000 would have given you an opportunity to put on a much bigger engine and you would have no issues.

So ........... now ......... here are your options ranging from easiest and cheapest to most expensive ....

- Ensure your cavitation plate is lined up with the bottom of the hull or an inch lower - this position will provide the best overall lift for the boat

- Pitch down your prop and move to a 4 blade with a deep cup - again, this will increase torque and low end lift (it will pop you up faster but you do trade off top speed - but that's not a big deal IMO)

- Install trim tabs or a hydrofoil - do the research on that engine/boat hull to ensure this has worked - a boat that size will likely benefit from a hydrofoil

- Finally, and as a last resort - get the right engine/boat combo and move on

Many premium brands WILL NOT sell you an under powered boat that won't plane under max load. This will NEVER happen at a Crestliner, Alumacraft or Lund dealer - most of them won't even offer an under powered option for the boats they are selling.

Good luck and sorry you had to learn the hard way. In my opinion this is a predatory practice by unscrupulous dealers who try and get people into a boat based on a price point or attractive financing .... they are crooks. I can tell you stories from many many people who had this happen when buying from Shipwreck Marine (or the predecessor) .... there's a reason they changed their name and a reason they keep getting mentioned time and time again.

I bet dollars to doughnuts this might be where your boat originated from. There's also another outfit on the south side and Red deer that pulls the same dirty fraudulent tricks.

[Dezso]

It’s a 1650 Rebel XL Sport 965lb vs 1140lb Smoker Craft
Lund max load capacity 825lb total 1790lb Smoker Craft 700lb total 1840, 50LB difference and my boat have 10HP more. Livewell was empty, 4 fishing rod and a small tackle box. My friend weighs more then my kids together and his boat work fine with the 50HP Yamaha
My top speed is under 10MPH ��
I’m getting limited to 4000RMP and there is a bunch of disturbed water behind the engine, I think the prop is bad or the height not setup correctly.
https://youtu.be/fVrknQ98Yd8

[DiabeticKripple]

90hp

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by Dezso

It’s a 1650 Rebel XL Sport 965lb vs 1140lb Smoker Craft
Lund max load capacity 825lb total 1790lb Smoker Craft 700lb total 1840, 50LB difference and my boat have 10HP more. Livewell was empty, 4 fishing rod and a small tackle box. My friend weighs more then my kids together and his boat work fine with the 50HP Yamaha
My top speed is under 10MPH ��
I’m getting limited to 4000RMP and there is a bunch of disturbed water behind the engine, I think the prop is bad or the height not setup correctly.
https://youtu.be/fVrknQ98Yd8

Hate to beat a dead horse but again did you finish the break in on the motor? All boat motors need break in even of its a $500,000 Freeman or world cat.

[Dean2]

EZM

Very good post and spot on. Truly sad part, is had he bought a 90 instead of the 60, the price difference new would have been $1500. It makes no sense, and the under powered boat actually uses more gas, in addition to not performing well. Better fuel consumption is why neophyte buyers often say they bought the smaller motor.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Dezso

It’s a 1650 Rebel XL Sport 965lb vs 1140lb Smoker Craft
Lund max load capacity 825lb total 1790lb Smoker Craft 700lb total 1840, 50LB difference and my boat have 10HP more. Livewell was empty, 4 fishing rod and a small tackle box. My friend weighs more then my kids together and his boat work fine with the 50HP Yamaha
My top speed is under 10MPH ��
I’m getting limited to 4000RMP and there is a bunch of disturbed water behind the engine, I think the prop is bad or the height not setup correctly.
https://youtu.be/fVrknQ98Yd8

There's also one BIG thing noboby mentioned ....... HULL Design. The Lund uses an IPS2 hull design which imparts 10%-20% more lift compared to conventional V hull designs. There are a few more angles and a more work (so of course) the price for a Lund comes at a premium. Lots of engineering goes into hydrodynamics and Lund is top of the food chain as far as these "factory assembly line" boats. Crestliner, markets a very similar geometry to the IPS2 (not sure what it's called) since both are owned by Brunswick Group and have excellent and efficient hull designs.

That makes a big difference - 10%-20% lift brings that 50lbs different closer to 200-250 lbs pretty darn quick. On a boat like that - I'm guessing it's like getting a 20hp bonus for the same money.

I've had tons of boats, including the exact same boat you mentioned there, a 162 pro angler with a 50 hp years ago - so you can be assured I know exactly where you are at.

I adjusted my cavitation plate height, and down pitched and went from overloaded not being able to plane in less than a minute to jumping up pretty quickly pretty well. It was still under powered, but these adjustments corrected 75% of the issue.

In the video, it's hard to tell, but the set up seems off to me. It also looks like it needs to be trimmed "up" (which seems couter intuative) but that's one way to try and see where the lift is coming from.

If you could take a picture of the boat with the engine trimmed down to 0 degrees from the side and get the back of the boat - that would be helpful (or do a quick short video walking it back from a few angles).

I don't mind having a look at this if you are in town (Edmonton) - I have, unfortunately, dealt with this myself and on a few other boats friends or friends of friends owned and most of the time have been able to put the person onto the right track to correct (or at least mitigate) this issue.

I don't have to shake your hand or breathe on you, I can come and have a look for a few minutes if you think that would help - you can PM me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrxVds5d_0

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dezso

It’s a 1650 Rebel XL Sport 965lb vs 1140lb Smoker Craft
Lund max load capacity 825lb total 1790lb Smoker Craft 700lb total 1840, 50LB difference and my boat have 10HP more. Livewell was empty, 4 fishing rod and a small tackle box. My friend weighs more then my kids together and his boat work fine with the 50HP Yamaha
My top speed is under 10MPH ��
I’m getting limited to 4000RMP and there is a bunch of disturbed water behind the engine, I think the prop is bad or the height not setup correctly.
https://youtu.be/fVrknQ98Yd8

I am done. Go ahead and keep whining instead of trying to fix the problem. It really doesn't matter if every other boat in the world is working just great, yours isn't. You can try to fix it or keep bellyaching. You aren't listening to anything I or the others are saying so figure it out for yourself.

[nick0danger]

https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/fe...outboard-motor

[elkhunter11]

I had a Lund Rebel 1650XL with a 75hp, and my boat would easily plane with four people. A friend had the identical boat with a 60hp, and he had to get two people to move to the front of the boat to get on plane , and then they could sit in the rear seats. The boat was rated for 75hp, so I upgraded to the 75hp he wanted to save a bit of cash, so he bought the 60hp. I would not purchase a boat/motor package with an outboard only 2/3 of the rating.

[Dezso]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am done. Go ahead and keep whining instead of trying to fix the problem. It really doesn't matter if every other boat in the world is working just great, yours isn't. You can try to fix it or keep bellyaching. You aren't listening to anything I or the others are saying so figure it out for yourself.

Cool

I don’t have the boat, I toke it back this morning and either they find the problem and fixing it or I back off.
I don’t have an arsenal of props laying around to keep swapping it.
Don’t have a bigger engine in the garage.
Listening to everyone post here, what I wanted to achieve is a testimony from others that I got screwed by sales 😀 or the configuration/setup is incorrect.

[Coiloil37]

Why are you only achieving 4K rpm? That’s about 2000 short of her redline and will make a difference. Is it electronically limited during break in or is it over loaded and over propped?
I’m of the opinion the only boat to buy is one with max hp for the hull but regardless at 4000 rpm your not going to get what you want from it.

[Dezso]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

Why are you only achieving 4K rpm? That’s about 2000 short of her redline and will make a difference. Is it electronically limited during break in or is it over loaded and over propped?
I’m of the opinion the only boat to buy is one with max hp for the hull but regardless at 4000 rpm your not going to get what you want from it.

This is what I’m suspecting, something limiting the engine!
Brake in periods 20hr but should I just idle it for 20hr lol
Going easy with it is different than can’t use it at all. My 2006 Honda did no needed brake in period and just sold it on Thursday, still working fine, 14’ 3 person and gears 23kmh/15mph, myself without gears (battery and fuel tank included of course) 30kmh

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by Dezso

This is what I’m suspecting, something limiting the engine!
Brake in periods 20hr but should I just idle it for 20hr lol
Going easy with it is different than can’t use it at all. My 2006 Honda did no needed brake in period and just sold it on Thursday, still working fine, 14’ 3 person and gears 23kmh/15mph, myself without gears (battery and fuel tank included of course) 30kmh

I would suspect your Yami, is governed and you can not go over 2/3 wot till its broken in. And yea go easy on her for the first hour.