Albertal Wolf Management

[Traps]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This was discussed with links to info earlier in this thread. My opinion, in certain areas, yes. Examples from links, Moose pop. down 30%, Yaha Tinda elk down from over 4000 to 600, 2010 ASRD helicopter wolf culling to protect caribou herd, Southern wolf study showing alarming % of kills on cattle.

I would like to keep a healthy pop. of ungulates for eating (hunting), viewing, and ecological balance. IMO there is a need to put increased effort to balance the increasing wolf pop. now, rather than live with the known consequenses if we don't.

I'm asking for Proactive Management rather than Reactive Management or as Sheephunter put it "Boom and Bust".

Have you checked in with common sense lately. Your over reacting to this. What happened before European influence - wolves and ungulates were doing their thing, killing and living. If you think ungulate and wolf numbers never fluctuated as much as they do your sadly mistaken. Wolves may have been the top predator before hunters as we know them today were around. The only difference now is we have stripped ungulates and prey of prime real estate and replaced it with agriculture, roads, leases, cutlines, etc. Now we are concerned about wolves having more than their share, ha, what a selfish joke this is. Now that we are the top predator and have impacted the land more than we knowingly admit we are concerned with too many wolves? Did you stop to think for one second that we have had an explosion of ungulates in the prior five years (which spoiled us). What do you think is going to happen? Moronic if you ask me to even consider such nonsense of proactive wolf management, we already have that partially in place with our draw system, I say partially because the only problem with proactive management is you cannot proactively manage ungulates on what the future environmental conditions will be. Back to my point, if you control ungulate harvest you control the prey - that includes us as hunters with the draw system. The only difference now is the draw system has taken more pressure off of the ungulates by humans and redistributed it to other predators. Right now is a blip in the cycle where there were some real easy winters and ungulates spiked in numbers followed by some really hard winters and a spike in predator populations resulting in prime conditions for the latter. What you see now are wolves taking care of excess and maybe more, but be patient, it will return to what it was. No matter what we think we could do proactively the simple fact of the matter is there is no reason to go hunting wolves unless you want to hunt them. There is no big interest in eating wolf meat and there isn't much profit in their hides so if anyone feels the need to do something about wolves go get your rifle, get out of the house and do your part, its legal. Think bigger picture instead of whats in front of your nose.

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;526017][QUOTE=walking buffalo;523088]I will post later some compiled records of north american wolf attacks on people. It will surprise those that think it doesn't happen here, and the number of incidents are on the rise.

Took a bit of time to put the post together, you guys asked for the info. Should I take it by the lack of reponses that you agree there is merit to my point. Wolves need to managed with the consideration of human safety, from both disease and attacks , as well as livestock and wildlife concerns.

Finally got around to reading the studies and there is some interesting info there and while I'd certainly never question the thoughts of Gueist, I guess some of needs to be brought into perspective too. As for the wolf attacks outlined, the only death was attributed to a habituated pack which is not a great representation of truly wild wolves so I'm still not sure of the danger presented by wolves in the wild. All habituated animals present considerable danger...just look at the elk and bison in Yellowstone. Far more deaths attributed to them than wolves.

As for the zoonoses, there is truth there no doubt but as Alberta is virtually rabies free, there is little likelyhood of rabid wolf attacks. Certainly some of the parasites are a concern.

I guess as with all papers, they need to be brought into perspective geographically and socially.

[wolfer]

Hey there. From Cariboo Chilcotin in BC. Geographically, central BC. I took the trappers course 6 or 7 years ago. Got 20 or 21 wolves the first year. Bait sites, snares. Our outfitters encourage people to do this thing by sponsoring trappers courses, with a strong bunch of points on wolf snaring. It's not hard. And the biggest benefit is for resident hunters, because of the allocation split, 79 21. Most outfitters kill lots of wolves, by hunting or trapping over bait sites. It is working here. More wolves here starting about 8 years ago, some places we have them under good control, and see big increase in rabbits, then, as a result, martin, fisher, lynx, bobcats, etc. Of course, we have knocked back the coyotes as a result of our efforts, that helps.

[ganderblaster]

Noticed my post about the trapper killing 100 wolves had some doubters.Will try to get a confirmation on that as I heard it word of mouth from a mouth that tells no lies but what other mouths have told the unlying mouth could be up for interpetation and Sheephunter take a chill pill I was just checking

[walking buffalo]

Wolves make predatory kill. Woman killed in Alaska, March 9, 2010.

http://www.adn.com/2010/03/11/117936...by-wolves.html

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Wolves make predatory kill. Woman killed in Alaska, March 9, 2010.

http://www.adn.com/2010/03/11/117936...by-wolves.html

First ever in Alaskan history.....

[sheepguide]

Strong statement by the father;

"they were just doing what wolves do" "Their nature just happened to kill my dauhter but I dont have any anger towards wolves"

[Tundra Monkey]

My theory.....throughout all recorded time when wolves mixed with man wolves lost. As far as "recorded" times there have been a few cases documented in NA, Eur and Russia....but really up until not that many years ago wolves were just killed. This gave them a pretty healthy understanding of their place in the world and was instilled for many generations.

Nowadays we insist on "living amongst them" as well as letting their populations grow so we can "see" them. We are just an easy meal for them and we are slowly teaching that to them......they're smart so it shouldn't be too hard for them to catch on

You will see more of these in the future just as you will see cases of coyote attacks on people IMO

tm

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

First ever in Alaskan history.....

Hi SH,

Not correct. Not even in written history. Imagine that, a newspaper not getting all the facts.

Posted earlier, http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/...chb13_full.pdf

case #49 AK fatal attack (rabies)
case #51 AK fatal attack (rabies)

This study recognizes the lack of records regarding wolf attacks.
Truth, there is no record of unrecorded attacks.

The larger threat to humans from wolves is from non-lethal attacks, and the record for these occurances is growing.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hi SH,

Not correct. Not even in written history. Imagine that, a newspaper not getting all the facts.

Posted earlier, http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/...chb13_full.pdf

case #49 AK fatal attack (rabies)
case #51 AK fatal attack (rabies)

This study recognizes the lack of records regarding wolf attacks.
Truth, there is no record of unrecorded attacks.

The larger threat to humans from wolves is from non-lethal attacks, and the record for these occurances is growing.

Well if people wanna live and play in wild places they take their chances. If you get killed because a wild animal thinks your lunch that isnt their fault. If your gunna go hunting calling and using scents and get eaten by a Griz, Wolf or Cat... well tough ****. If you wanna be safe with no chance of getting attacked there are plenty of cities for these people to live. If you go outside of these areas then you take your chances.
Maybe we should cull all the moose as there are people killed by them also.
Our wolf populations are high but the outdoors is theirs before ours. The numbers need to be reduced but not for the reason of threats to the humans in the outdoors.
These wolves possibly killed this lady but if they actually did it was more out of oppertunity than just out there to kill humans.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Strong statement by the father;

"they were just doing what wolves do" "Their nature just happened to kill my dauhter but I dont have any anger towards wolves"

This caught my attention as well. And I agree with it. The wolves were doing what wolves do, that's my point on the concern to human safety.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Well if people wanna live and play in wild places they take their chances. If you get killed because a wild animal thinks your lunch that isnt their fault. If your gunna go hunting calling and using scents and get eaten by a Griz, Wolf or Cat... well tough ****. If you wanna be safe with no chance of getting attacked there are plenty of cities for these people to live. If you go outside of these areas then you take your chances.
Maybe we should cull all the moose as there are people killed by them also.
Our wolf populations are high but the outdoors is theirs before ours. The numbers need to be reduced but not for the reason of threats to the humans in the outdoors.
These wolves possibly killed this lady but if they actually did it was more out of oppertunity than just out there to kill humans.

Well, Good Morning to you Sheepguide... need to borrow some coffee?

I'm with you on most of this, we do take our chances just being alive. Personally, many of the most vibrant memories I have from the outdoors include contact with the predators. Packing out a sheep in the dark through a creek bottom where I scoped three Grizzlies just hours before, the spidy senses on high. I've never felt more alive!

Our wolf populations are high but the outdoors is theirs before ours.

Really? Care to explain this to me?

Sheepguide, are you going to move your family to the city because wolves should have priority to the outdoors? Are you going to give up hunting because wolves should have priority to the prey animals?

Tundra Monkey, I share your opinion.

The OP of this thread is to put forward ideas/experiences/opinions regarding wolf management. Just like with Grizzly Bears, Cougars, Coyotes, Elk, Moose, Deer, the inclusion of threats to human safety is a valid and important part of wildlife management.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Really? Care to explain this to me?

Sheepguide, are you going to move your family to the city because wolves should have priority to the outdoors? Are you going to give up hunting because wolves should have priority to the prey animals?

Nope I live in an area that has us living in close proximety to wolves,cats, and bears(blks and grizz). Just because I live there and spend my time in the outdoors doesnt mean these animals shouldnt have free run. I chose to live there, that was my choice knowing that these animals are around. To control the population just so that I dont have to deal with the hazards is not the best reason to me.
I agree that if we want to help animal populations stay at a certain size, wolf(all predators, humans included) populations need to be controled.
Ive had cougars living very close to my house all the time and one is documented a collared female with 2 kittens one winter. I never once thought that she should be removed because I live there. We have had wolves run right behind the house and I never once thought they shouldnt be there. Sure I wanted to shoot them but it wasnt for safety reasons. A few griz are spotted just west of my house and to me that is why I live were I do.

Like I said if people want to be in the country or outdoors they asume the risk.
SG

[thunderjet]

x2

[walking buffalo]

Sheepguide,

I share your philosophy regarding living with the wildlife. Your answer is what I expected. That is why I offered you some coffee first..


Anyone have any luck with the wolves this winter? Got any pics or stories?

I went for a walk yesterday, just 400 yards west of 37 st sw in Calgary, on the reserve. Upon entering a pasture, a band of horses with two new foals were tightly bunched up in the middle of the field. My dog was running ahead of me, when three wolves came running at us from the far side of the horses. They held up about 400 yards away. These wolves were definately sitting on the horses, waiting for a chance at the young ones.

I am kicking myself for not bringing a rifle with me, but I'll be back tonight.

[walking buffalo]

So here it is, the answer to where the Yaha Tinda elk went. Into the mouths of wolves.

This is a paper regarding wolves and ungulates in Banff National Park studies.

Remember while reading this, it is a National Park study, where humans are not to have a place in the ecosystem.

http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/14...Management.pdf


Quotes:

Wolves re-colonized BNP in the 1980s.

Elk were the most abundant ungulate in BNP, comprising 40
to 70 percent of the diet of wolves

Moose
populations were declining at about 8 percent per year because of wolf predation.
Moose and elk in the high-wolf area had similar demography evidencing the
strong top-down effect of wolf predation. In summary, Hurd found apparent
competition mediated by wolves was occurring in combination with exploitative
competition in a negatively additive fashion, which caused moose population
declines.


Prescribed burns had no positive effect on ungulate numbers.
In essence, any
increased elk productivity from fires translated to increased wolf productivity
through a rapid numeric response.

Based on experiences in BNP, I show that wildlife
managers face tough choices ahead and must come to terms with the truth that
maintaining prewolf ungulate harvest regimes may be a fantasy in postwolf
landscapes

If you as a human, feel that you and your children, and their kids, deserve to participate in nature through hunting, then you better get serious about the wolf population. High densities of wolves will mean very limited or no hunting opportunities in those areas. Letting nature ( meaning without humans) take it's course, will result in low populations of elk and moose for a very long time. It will take decades for the "natural cycle" to unfold. Maybe your grandkids will win the lottery for an elk tag some day.

It is time for SRD to re-evaluate it's wolf management plan, cull, bounty, whatever, put all the options on the table. Hunters need to get involved with a more organized approach to this issue or suffer the consequences.