Varmit gun

[clakjp]

Originally Posted by noneck180

The OP doesn't reload..have you ever taken a 22-250 to a gopher patch,,the only way th OP is going to get a fast twist 22-250 is to buy an aftermarket barrel, shorter barrel life on the 250, way more powder, and if you can hit gophers consistently over 500 yards..I want to go with you..

You can buy a savage with different twist rate barrel in a 22-250rem.A 1-9 or a 1-12.same with a .223.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by lannie

Not trying to stir it up too much Iclund but.......
I can't shoot 40gr. with my 204 with any accuracy at all. I think the most common bullet is the 32 gr. The 22-250 does fair better at longer ranges than the 204 with the drift, velocity and energy at 500 yds. drop is about the same. After that yardage the 22-250 really starts winning everywhere.
What grain of bullet do you use in your 20 caliber rifle ?
When the OP asked his original question's he stated that he also wanted to do some long range shooting. My interpretation of long range starts at 500 and continues past that. Past that the 204's start eating dust. My suggestion was fast twist first, then caliber. 223 with heavier bullets will get
him into long range stuff economically. Shoot 55's or less for flatter trajectories close in- this is where the 204 shines.
He could go with a fast twist in 22-250 too to "get all he desires" but i think the 223's would be a better starting point.
As with all calibers there are compromises including the 204 and 223.
From what i have been reading you are obviously very knowledgable in the ballistics field- much more than i and a more accomplished shooter.
This post is not intended to smear the 204's or the fans of them. I am one.

You are right about factory 204 Rugers shooting the 40 grain bullets like crap because they have 1-12 twist and too much freebore. My brothers Rem 700 VSSF II shot 4.5" with the Hornady factory 40 V-Max. I did manage to get 2.5" but had a hard time getting it to shoot 32 V-max hand loads better than 3/4" as well. My CZ527 V, with 25 5/8" barrel shoots the factory 40's into 1MOA at near 3900 fps on a cool day so go figure. You are right in that we are talking 500 yard varmint gun at best.

Going to the heavier bullets with faster twists will extend the range in all three mentioned calibers. You will probably only find the faster twist in a 223, unless you go custom, but then you will probably find that you have to feed it single shot to get satisfactory results. The Berger 55 VLD would likely surprise you in a 20 Tactical or 204 Ruger with a 1-7 twist unless you try to load it to fit the magazine.

This is why I designed the 20 EXTREME. I can run 204 Ruger/20 tactical velocities with 20.6 grains of powder in a 24", 12 twist, barrel. I can run 40 grain bullets to 3650fps which outdoes the Hornady Factory 40 grain 22-250 bullets, to 500 yards, with less than half the powder and recoil.

The 55 Berger fits in the magazine with the bullet seated to the lands and has only about 2 grains less powder capacity than the larger 20 calibers loaded to magazine length. I suspect that I would get close to 3200fps in a 24" barrel.

If I were going to go past 500 yards I would use the old Rem 700 V, 7mm08, with the Speer 110 load that I posted earlier.

[noneck180]

Originally Posted by clakjp

You can buy a savage with different twist rate barrel in a 22-250rem.A 1-9 or a 1-12.same with a .223.

I know about the Savages,, point being is that after 500 yards..there will be a lot more factors..I wouldn't use either....

[lannie]

Originally Posted by noneck180

The OP doesn't reload..have you ever taken a 22-250 to a gopher patch,,the only way th OP is going to get a fast twist 22-250 is to buy an aftermarket barrel, shorter barrel life on the 250, way more powder, and if you can hit gophers consistently over 500 yards..I want to go with you..

-The Op said he wants to get into reloading. Yes i have taken 22-250's to the patch. I did not say buy a 22-250, i recommended a 223 so he could also shoot longer ranges and buy 1 rifle. In fact i recommended 1 -8 twist 223 tikka- factory configuration. I never said i can hit gophers over 500 yards -
You should read the OP's original post, i did - and came up with what i thought was best suited for his needs. If he is just shooting gophers, then by all means get a 204. Do not read into what i say, i try to be clear and concise
and NEVER even mentioned my shooting abilities, let alone hitting gophers at over 500 yards ??? I do read a lot of different posts on here and do readily concede to the fact there are many many shooters on this forum that could easily outshoot me. I am also very sure there are many on here who have forgotten more than i know as far as long range shooting goes, probably more at the bottom of the pile. I will get better with time and practice-i hope. One day when i think i won't embarras myself to badly i will even take a stab a one of those postal shoots.

[noneck180]

You got me I didn't read the OP had to say...I should get that Hooked on Phonics..

[lannie]

Iclund-
I do have the 223 i mentioned and you are right about the single feeding with
the heavier bullets. I use 69's and 75's with my tikka and it is a bit of a pain especially with the small ejection port and big mitts i have. I was very interested in your extreme while reading your posts. It looks like it is serving you very well and has attributes the 204 does not. For the time being though
i think myself i should stick to the factory offerings. Nice to see guys stuff on here that do have the expertise to do it. I use the 223 for longer range as i need to learn to shoot farther out with the wind drops etc. The 223's are pretty economical to shoot though and i thought it was a good starting point.
When i start hitting consistently with this i will likely step up tp the plate with something larger. For now a miss with a 50 cent round is equal to a miss for a buck fifty. I figure i will learn the wind faster with lesser too.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by lannie

Iclund-
I do have the 223 i mentioned and you are right about the single feeding with
the heavier bullets. I use 69's and 75's with my tikka and it is a bit of a pain especially with the small ejection port and big mitts i have. I was very interested in your extreme while reading your posts. It looks like it is serving you very well and has attributes the 204 does not. For the time being though
i think myself i should stick to the factory offerings. Nice to see guys stuff on here that do have the expertise to do it. I use the 223 for longer range as i need to learn to shoot farther out with the wind drops etc. The 223's are pretty economical to shoot though and i thought it was a good starting point.
When i start hitting consistently with this i will likely step up tp the plate with something larger. For now a miss with a 50 cent round is equal to a miss for a buck fifty. I figure i will learn the wind faster with lesser too.

The best 223 I had was a Rem 700 SPS Sporter. I set it up with a Hawke, Airmax 6-18 X 40 with the SR reticule. I had a load using 25.4 grains Benchmark, pushing a Speer 50 TNT to just over 3200f/s from FL Winchester range pickup brass. Talk about cheap. The SR reticule compensated this bullet to 400 meters and was accurate enough( 0.15" best group) to hit gopher silhouettes over 60% of the time even in a slight, gusty crosswind. I loaded Speer 33 grain TNT bullets to about 3240 fps with 13.5 grains Blue Dot (cheap). They shot 1/4" 5 shot cloverleafs and really exploded close range gophers if I used the left wind-age circle on the main cross hair. The 19 Badger spoiled me and I gave up on the 223.

Keep at it lannie and you will succeed. Email me if you want my 223 load data. I have it on an excel spreadsheet.

I just ordered 25 dies for the 20 EXTREME so will be able to get a few people started with the ultimate gopher gun. If I don't get any interest I will have enough guns and dies to last many of my remaining lifetimes. Maybe my grandsons will take up the torch.

[CR5]

Last time I was in P&D they had a used tika .223 varmit/tactical with synthetic stock heavy barrel in stainless with a scope for right around $1000. Might work for you if it's still there.
I almost took it home but found a Savage model 10 precision carbine in .223 in stock at Frontier in Sask. Ordered it over the phone and it was here the next day.

Good luck