Trophy Quality in a General WMU

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by podman

Here is the B&C breakdown by area so you can see where the rams came from. Hopefully relevant to the post
Or this may be a guide of what areas to avoid and look for a spot off of the beaten path as many sheep are shot as soon as they are legal in the popular areas.
1. Alberta Cadomin, AB bighorn sheep 17
2. Alberta Alberta bighorn sheep 14
3. Alberta Ghost River, AB bighorn sheep 11
4. Alberta Luscar Mt., AB bighorn sheep 11
5. Alberta Clearwater River, AB bighorn sheep 10
6. Alberta Burnt Timber Creek, AB bighorn sheep 9
7. Alberta Panther River, AB bighorn sheep 9
8. Alberta Castle River, AB bighorn sheep 8
9. Alberta Sheep River, AB bighorn sheep 8
10. Alberta Highwood River, AB bighorn sheep 6
11. Alberta Leyland Mt., AB bighorn sheep 6
12. Alberta Mystery Lake, AB bighorn sheep 6
13. Alberta Brazeau River, AB bighorn sheep 5
14. Alberta Gregg River, AB bighorn sheep 5
15. Alberta Kananaskis, AB bighorn sheep 5
16. Alberta Whitehorse Creek, AB bighorn sheep 5
17. Alberta Blind Canyon, AB bighorn sheep 4
18. Alberta Cardinal River, AB bighorn sheep 4
19. Alberta Clearwater, AB bighorn sheep 4
20. Alberta Elbow River, AB bighorn sheep 4
21. Alberta Highwood, AB bighorn sheep 4
22. Alberta Prospect Creek, AB bighorn sheep 4
23. Alberta Ram River, AB bighorn sheep 4
24. Alberta Smoky River, AB bighorn sheep 4
25. Alberta Burnt Timber, AB bighorn sheep 3
26. Alberta Forbidden Creek, AB bighorn sheep 3
27. Alberta Highwood Range, AB bighorn sheep 3
28. Alberta Little Elbow River, AB bighorn sheep 3
29. Alberta Sheep Creek, AB bighorn sheep 3
30. Alberta Wildhay River, AB bighorn sheep 3
31. Alberta Yarrow Creek, AB bighorn sheep 3

Not many rams on there killed in zones that arent boardered by provincal parks or sanctuaries.

[peakseeker]

lol, gotta agree with that one!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by blackmamba

Totally disagree with you on that one !! There is great sheep taken every year in wmu s that don t boarder any of those places !! Its like any other critter put in the time get off the beaten path and you will find the big boys !!

i reckon podmans list kinda proves my point and not so much yours huh?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i reckon podmans list kinda proves my point and not so much yours huh?

Isb, We all know that the majority of sheep zones boarder and touch park boundaries . I'm not speaking for Blackmamba, but I believe that he was trying to say that there are alot of trophy size sheep shot, that don't step over the boundary. ( that imaginary line between park and wmu hunting zone).

[ishootbambi]

im pretty sure your pal can admit for himself that he was mistaken when he said i didnt know what i was talking about. the truth is, your best bet for a big ram in alberta is to look along the edges of sanctuaries where rams are protected to reach maturity.....well aside from a november rut draw, but they are also on the boundaries. sheep management in alberta is geared toward maximum hunter opportunity and not maximum horn size. it would be nice if more rams could make it to maturity, but there are few sheep available and lots of guys looking for them.

[podman]

I posted the list to show where some of the B&C sheep are and not to prove or disprove a point. The list has 146 different locations where sheep were found/harvested in Alberta; I only listed the top 31. So if I were to post the entire list I am guessing there are B&C sheep from all over Alberta. So to answer the original question your chances are greater in certain areas but there is still opportunity to shoot a book ram in most if not all general WMUs.

Less than two months, Happy Sheep Hunting.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by podman

I posted the list to show where some of the B&C sheep are and not to prove or disprove a point. The list has 146 different locations where sheep were found/harvested in Alberta; I only listed the top 31. So if I were to post the entire list I am guessing there are B&C sheep from all over Alberta. So to answer the original question your chances are greater in certain areas but there is still opportunity to shoot a book ram in most if not all general WMUs.

Less than two months, Happy Sheep Hunting.

I bet of that 146 sheep 80% are shot within migration distance of places that arent hunted. Probably 80+% of B/C Alberta rams are shot near these areas.

The oppertunity at a book sheep drasticaly lowers the farther you get away from these sanctuaries. That is why places such as the Chutes on the Burnt, Shale Pass in Forbiden Creek, The Ram Hole at the head of the South Ram, Head of Ranger Creek , Head of Dog Rib in the Panther, Third lake area of the Red Deer, Head of Scalp creek, Indian Head on the clearwater, Zone 410 and many more are hunted harder than most areas. Guys know these areas produce them big rams in the highest percentage and even legal rams in higher percentages.
So yes a big ram is a possiblity in all zones but your odds go up the closer you get to them boundries that stop us from hunting.
SG

[Bassett]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

the truth is, your best bet for a big ram in alberta is to look along the edges of sanctuaries where rams are protected to reach maturity..... sheep management in alberta is geared toward maximum hunter opportunity and not maximum horn size. it would be nice if more rams could make it to maturity, .

I agree with you after what everyone else said, but not fully... Yea your right my best bet for a cranker ram would be hunt the boundry and catch a big one crossing after being safe for years in Jasper, Banff or Cadomin.. But its like all animals im guessing, there are big rams in other zones that people have yet to find, there has to be, unless EVERY RAM IN ALBERTA has migrated to these boundries, wich it seems like your saying that.

Yes it be nice if alot of our rams and any of our animals could reach maturity and trophy maturity before being harvested. Im not sure what your meaning on our managment is geared towards hunter oppertunity not maximum horn size? Do you mean they made the legal ram size the size they did so more hunters could have a chance at taking a ram?

[ksteed17]

i agree with what s been said about the bigger rams being found in or near the parks, and it makes sense to be there cause its instinct to go where its safe. But that being said, theres alot of mountains in alberta and im guessing theres a few places where not alot of people are going. Maybe the sheep have found these and are feeling safe in these areas. Statistically(sp) youll find bigger animals in the parks, but theres always the chance that ones out looking for a new home. We found our area where we shot our sheep using google maps. Im sure alot of other guys do too. It helps give you a reference on what you think might be good sheep territory. Look for a hard to get to spot and see what you find.

[podman]

Every sheep hunter I talked to said you may get a sheep in that WMU but there are no big ones there. I am glad they were all sitting near the borders of the park south of us and let the big guy grow. We were told we would never shoot a sheep and most likely never shoot an Elk. We had both by 1:00pm on our first day of hunting. Luck plays a roll but so does preparation. Like Ksteed said we used Google maps and found the most remote spot we could find and scouted it. Maybe there are more hogs waiting in areas nobody would ever guess or have not produced in years.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by podman

Every sheep hunter I talked to said you may get a sheep in that WMU but there are no big ones there. I am glad they were all sitting near the borders of the park south of us and let the big guy grow. We were told we would never shoot a sheep and most likely never shoot an Elk. We had both by 1:00pm on our first day of hunting. Luck plays a roll but so does preparation. Like Ksteed said we used Google maps and found the most remote spot we could find and scouted it. Maybe there are more hogs waiting in areas nobody would ever guess or have not produced in years.

Yes you guys did have "ALOT" of luck on your side. The ram you guys got was a one in a million. For any zone. Everyone has stated there is a fact that big rams can come from anywhere. Some areas are just way better than others.
And killing both by 1pm is great but it wont be like that every year I guarentee.
Every hunter out there looking for sheep is looking for a 190"+ ram but fact is very few rams reach this size or even close for that matter outside of sanctuaries. Anyone killing one had better feel lucky because odds are they will never put the cross hairs on another.
SG

[Bassett]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Yes you guys did have "ALOT" of luck on your side. SG

But they also put in "ALOT" of time and preperation i bet.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Bassett

But they also put in "ALOT" of time and preperation i bet.

Im sure they did. No one has stated other wise. Im just saying that that ram isnt the norm. And that rams like that come along every couple decades.
SG

[podman]

I never said you could find 190+ rams in every WMU I was just stating book rams in general. And yes it was a lot of luck but it would have never happened had we fallen into the rut of following everyone else around the historic sheep sites.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by podman

I never said you could find 190+ rams in every WMU I was just stating book rams in general. And yes it was a lot of luck but it would have never happened had we fallen into the rut of following everyone else around the historic sheep sites.

You know im not sure the deal but seems like you need guys to praise you to make you happy. You seem like good guys and I hope you great success in the future but this thread isnt about you guys or the ram you shot. You didnt do anything different that hundreds of other sheep hunters did last fall. The only difference is you stumbled into the hidy hole of a huge ram. That is awesome for you guys but it isnt how things work very often no matter how hard you hunt, where you hunt and how much you prepare.

Now away from you guys and your ram and back to talking about sheep and sheep zones.
SG

[pottymouth]

SG, there just a couple of young hunters, that had the career year in big game hunting, and are very still excited, as they should be. Maybe they give inspiration to people, who thought only hard core guys get all the big ones. I mean I don't get tired of looking at that ram, and there advice is what they did and know about wmu's. Really isn't that every first (and maybe expirenced) time sheep hunters dream senerio and story, it was for me, glad it happens.

[Bassett]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Now away from you guys and your ram and back to talking about sheep and sheep zones.
SG

Thank you LOL! Finally someone wants to talk sheep hunting and sheep zones, and not praise ksteed and podman on both of their groups cranker rams... But great rams guys now back to topic!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by podman

Every sheep hunter I talked to said you may get a sheep in that WMU but there are no big ones there. I am glad they were all sitting near the borders of the park south of us and let the big guy grow. We were told we would never shoot a sheep and most likely never shoot an Elk. We had both by 1:00pm on our first day of hunting. Luck plays a roll but so does preparation. Like Ksteed said we used Google maps and found the most remote spot we could find and scouted it. Maybe there are more hogs waiting in areas nobody would ever guess or have not produced in years.

pod, im not sure i recognize you so i dont know if you were in on the conversation or not, but i did talk to kyle at the pincher creek trophy day. without divulging too much info on your hunting area in public, kyle told me where you were. take a look at those horns. a sheeps horns usually have a golden brown coloring...sometimes a little darker....but brown. the exception is where sheep live on coal mines where coal dust stains them black. it is quite noticable on sheep from grande cache and cadomin......and yours. remember how many people accused you of sneaking that sheep off the mine at cadomin? its because of the color pod. it is a coal mine sheep....but not cadomin. now think where you hunted. that ram did come from a sanctuary....a coal mine where there is no hunting. i believe you caught that ram on the alberta side of the border, but make no mistake, he spent a good chunk of his life on the mine just across the border in bc, and yes he came from the boundary of a sanctuary....just like the vast majority of big rams do in alberta. if you want to see a stat that proves it further....look at big rams from alberta in the past 20 years before trophy hunting really took off here. before then it was more common to find big rams away from sanctuaries, but today its about the only good bet in alberta.

bassett, you said

But its like all animals im guessing, there are big rams in other zones that people have yet to find, there has to be, unless EVERY RAM IN ALBERTA has migrated to these boundries, wich it seems like your saying that.

Yes it be nice if alot of our rams and any of our animals could reach maturity and trophy maturity before being harvested. Im not sure what your meaning on our managment is geared towards hunter oppertunity not maximum horn size? Do you mean they made the legal ram size the size they did so more hunters could have a chance at taking a ram?

and i reply
every ram in alberta does not migrate to the boundaries of sanctuaries....that is not what i said. what i did say was sanctuaries are pretty well the only way for a ram to live very long once he becomes legal to kill. if i remember right, hunters number around 3000 and take around 150 rams each year. biologists estimate that 95% plus of rams in alberta that are in huntable wmu's are killed the first year they are legal. management is geared toward opportunity as every hunter who wants to go can buy a tag every year and do it. the only guaranteed way to increase the number of mature rams out there is to stop hunters from killing them young, and that means a draw. with maturity comes horn size, but it seems that most, on this forum at least are against the draw idea as it would mean hunting for sheep in draw areas very rarely. it seems most here would rather hunt small immature sheep every year praying for a miracle like ksteed found, than have to wait for a chance to hunt mature rams. ive said it many times that id like to see a draw in the south part of the province where rams could grow big, and open seasons to the north so everyone can hunt every year. we could have both!

[pika]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

the only guaranteed way to increase the number of mature rams out there is to stop hunters from killing them young, and that means a draw. with maturity comes horn size, but it seems that most, on this forum at least are against the draw idea as it would mean hunting for sheep in draw areas very rarely. it seems most here would rather hunt small immature sheep every year praying for a miracle like ksteed found, than have to wait for a chance to hunt mature rams. ive said it many times that id like to see a draw in the south part of the province where rams could grow big, and open seasons to the north so everyone can hunt every year. we could have both!

with over 200 hunters accessing each of the 400-408 wmu's each year to substantially make any effect on sheep harvest (meaning less than 5 tags per wmu per year) it would be a minimum 40 year wait for a tag, not including the plethora of hunters that don't even bother to hunt sheep right now that would apply for the draw, you like a 40 year wait??

If there was a 5 or 7 year wait between sheep harvest with a general tag there would be a substantial reduction in harvest due to a number of guys who have the knack for harvesting sheep almost every second year getting taken out of the picture. There's lots of rams in the southern wmu's there's no arguing that they just need a few less bullet holes in them!!

[podman]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

pod, im not sure i recognize you so i dont know if you were in on the conversation or not, but i did talk to kyle at the pincher creek trophy day. without divulging too much info on your hunting area in public, kyle told me where you were. take a look at those horns. a sheeps horns usually have a golden brown coloring...sometimes a little darker....but brown. the exception is where sheep live on coal mines where coal dust stains them black.

I never said our ram was or wasn't shot near a sanctuary. The thread talked about general WMUs not sanctuaries. If the thread was about sanctuaries I would have brought that point up. There is probably some sort of sanctuary close to every WMU. I am fully aware of the location by a coal mine and you are right he most likely came from the coal mine. There are only 6 WMUs (408, 410, 437, 438, 444, and 446)that are on draw (some are general early) so the answer would be yes there is possiblity of trophy quality sheep. But also I wanted to bring out that you may find a ram somewhere off the beaten path. Also I wanted to encourage others that feel intimidated by some of the more vocal sheep hunters on the forum to give it a try don't let them scare you; if I can get out and have some luck it is possible you could too. There will not be big sheep around every corner but if you are having fun who cares. As far as size goes we did not care that the ram was a book ram it never crossed our minds until someone told us. We were estatic to get out in the wild and shoot a LEGAL full curl ram in a 4/5ths area. I read in one article that if you go sheep hunting you will either hate it or become addicted.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

You know im not sure the deal but seems like you need guys to praise you to make you happy.

As far as sheepguide was saying we need praise(first of all very rude when you don't know us); if it sounds like I am bringing up my experience for praise I had fun and I would like to encourage others who would like to sheep hunt to take from my experience and go out and try it. If it comes across as looking for praise it is the opposite I feel like many sheep hunters like to let you know that only they are allowed to hunt sheep and it is way too hard, don't try. I am sorry if my trying to simplify sheep hunting offends you. Last I checked it is a general tag and anyone from Alberta has a chance to do it.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by podman

I never said our ram was or wasn't shot near a sanctuary. The thread talked about general WMUs not sanctuaries. If the thread was about sanctuaries I would have brought that point up. There is probably some sort of sanctuary close to every WMU. I am fully aware of the location by a coal mine and you are right he most likely came from the coal mine. There are only 6 WMUs (408, 410, 437, 438, 444, and 446)that are on draw (some are general early) so the answer would be yes there is possiblity of trophy quality sheep. But also I wanted to bring out that you may find a ram somewhere off the beaten path. Also I wanted to encourage others that feel intimidated by some of the more vocal sheep hunters on the forum to give it a try don't let them scare you; if I can get out and have some luck it is possible you could too. There will not be big sheep around every corner but if you are having fun who cares. As far as size goes we did not care that the ram was a book ram it never crossed our minds until someone told us. We were estatic to get out in the wild and shoot a LEGAL full curl ram in a 4/5ths area. I read in one article that if you go sheep hunting you will either hate it or become addicted.



As far as sheepguide was saying we need praise(first of all very rude when you don't know us); if it sounds like I am bringing up my experience for praise I had fun and I would like to encourage others who would like to sheep hunt to take from my experience and go out and try it. If it comes across as looking for praise it is the opposite I feel like many sheep hunters like to let you know that only they are allowed to hunt sheep and it is way too hard, don't try. I am sorry if my trying to simplify sheep hunting offends you. Last I checked it is a general tag and anyone from Alberta has a chance to do it.

not sure about the story or anything....not really following it...
But WOW !!!!! That is an amazing Ram you took...

This was your first time???

Way to go and do it!!!!!!

Congrats !

[steve]

yawn.....

[Bassett]

I love how arguments rise when someone shoots something big, all i have to say it GREAT ram podman. I havent really seen a big picture or a story but seems like you had a great experience.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by Bassett

I love how arguments rise when someone shoots something big, all i have to say it GREAT ram podman. I havent really seen a big picture or a story but seems like you had a great experience.

x2

[sheepguide]

not sure what argument your talking about Basset. The "OP" was about trophy quality in our sheep WMU's. It has been stated by most that yes big rams can be killed anywhere but the biggest percentage shot are near sanctuary borders. There is always that exception to the rule but like stated the ram being brought up here doesnt seem to be just a ram everyone else has missed. That area also has sanctuary close.
It was also stated that seasoned sheep hunters told them there were no rams there. Well that right there is the oldest in the book. If a seasoned old sheep hunter told me not to go some where cause there were no rams, that would be the first place id head to.
It is a great ram and like I stated it is and awesome accomplishment. And hope to see more guys getting rams of that caliber.

And like I said earlier the farther you move from the sanctuary borders the less % chance of seeing a huge ram. Its fact not just my opinion so there is no argument.
SG