Internet may soon cost you more

[chasingtail]

I see Shaw is going to be charging $2 per Gigabyte if you go over the allowed Internet Usage. Most people won't be affected but if you download a lot of movies or use Netflix you will be over in a hurry. Sucks for me I was going to Cancel my Cable and get all my TV over the Internet.


http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...193/story.html

[WCTHEMI]

That sucks for sure, but I think that all providers will follow suit, and we will be forced to pay up. It seems that in Canada, service providers such as for cell phones and internet, band together to make things more expensive for consumers, while in the US, they actually compete to earn the customers dollar.

[birchy]

They've already got the fee listed in the details of each of the plans on their site: http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/Internet/

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

I see Shaw is going to be charging $2 per Gigabyte if you go over the allowed Internet Usage. Most people won't be affected but if you download a lot of movies or use Netflix you will be over in a hurry. Sucks for me I was going to Cancel my Cable and get all my TV over the Internet.


http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...193/story.html

Just don't use shaw internet then.

We SO need the internet and cell phone markets opened up to true world-wide competition. Why is my cell phone bill for my family hundreds of dollars a month when any third-world street vendor who makes $1000 a year can easily afford his phone?

[Slannesh]

http://openmedia.ca/

If you care about not paying a LOT more for internet have a read here. 160 thousand people have already signed the online petition. Will it help? I have no idea. but I know that shaw really doesn't give a crap about us individually.

I ended up having to cut a bunch of services that we weren't really using with them to upgrade my internet connection so I wouldn't get hit with huge overage charges.

[Slannesh]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Just don't use shaw internet then.

We SO need the internet and cell phone markets opened up to true world-wide competition. Why is my cell phone bill for my family hundreds of dollars a month when any third-world street vendor who makes $1000 a year can easily afford his phone?

It's not that simple.

Bell and Rogers have both already started out east and TELUS has been flip-flopping on the issue since this came to light a couple of weeks ago. One day saying they aren't going to be charging and the next day saying they will.

It might not be a big deal for joe average today, but with Netflix and so many 'cloud' based services Canadians are going to start getting hit hard if usage based billing is allowed to stand as it is right now.

Look at it this way, a single blu-ray quality movie that is streamed consumes approximately 12-15 GB of bandwidth. An hour of HDTV at 1080p rings in at around 3 to 5 GB. That eats up a 60GB/month cap REALLY quickly. Nevermind if you like to use something like Skype to video chat or download games.

Now personally I have NO problem paying more for using more but the way it's breaking down just doesn't make any sense. It costs a large ISP approximately 1 cent to supply 1GB of data transfer, so yeah if i'm using a Terabyte of data a month I should pay more than my mom who used maybe 5GB a month. But considering the record profits shaw posted last quarter where is the line? 1-2 dollars per GB for overage charges is just crazy, i've already upgraded to a higher package at double the cost per month as I am a fairly heavy user. I don't need crazy speed but there just wasn't a reasonable option to buy a package that added a reasonable amount of data.

Anyhow, the above link is worth checking out. We'll all be using a lot more data than most people realize in the next few years. Time to put a stop to this now before only the rich can afford to do anything worth doing on the Internet.

[NoKlu]

Canada has the highest cell phone rates in the world so it's only fair internet should be number 1 as well.

[birchy]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Just don't use shaw internet then.

We SO need the internet and cell phone markets opened up to true world-wide competition. Why is my cell phone bill for my family hundreds of dollars a month when any third-world street vendor who makes $1000 a year can easily afford his phone?

Apparently it involves a ruling from the CRTC, and the other big companies will most likely do the same thing.


This is a total cash grab! In that article in the Vancouver sun, the spokesperson from Shaw says that the average customer uses 1/3 of their monthly limit, and this will only affect about 10% of our customers. He says this in order to try and show that their monthly caps are more than reasonable..

Well, if 90% of your customers are NOT using 2/3 of their monthly data limit, and 10% are using.. let's say, twice their limit.. mathematically it still works out to LESS bandwidth than if 100% of their customers are using 100% of their monthly limit!

IE - Let's say we have 100 customers on Shaw High Speed (60GB/month). 90 people use 20GB/month, and 10 people use 120GB/month (just randomly saying "twice" the limit). That's a total bandwidth usage of 3000GB/month. But, if all 100 customers are using their full 60GB, then that's 6000GB/month!

Cellular companies often use "pooling" for both data and minutes with corporate plans.. every employee has a "limit" of let's say 1GB/month of data, and 300 minutes. BUT, it goes into a big "pool".. Some people may go over their limit, but that's okay because MOST people are well under, so it all evens out in the end.. There should be no reason why internet usage is any different.

As an IT guy, I'm confident in saying that with the infrastructure in place, there is virtually no cost difference between a switch/router running at 20% capacity, or 90% capacity. MAYBE a little bit more electricity.. but even that would be marginal. Think of it like a garden hose.. you can squeeze the trigger gently and have a light stream of water coming out, or you can squeeze it all the way and have a full stream coming out. But the diameter of the hose is still the same.. the capacity is still there.

Petition to sign @ www.stopthemeter.ca

[slopeshunter]

So is there somewhere I can go to on Shaw to see how much I've downloaded so far during the month? Or do I just find out when I get my monthly statement? It would make sense that if they're going to charge for overage that there should be somewhere I can go to monitor my usage.

[NuHunter]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=79349

Discussed 3 weeks ago.

[birchy]

Originally Posted by slopeshunter

So is there somewhere I can go to on Shaw to see how much I've downloaded so far during the month? Or do I just find out when I get my monthly statement? It would make sense that if they're going to charge for overage that there should be somewhere I can go to monitor my usage.

You can call their technical support and ask. I just did this morning.

[chasingtail]

Looks like it kicks in March 1st and you get 2 warnings prior to be charged extra. I will be downloading non-stop until then.

It's a cash grab really $2 a GB when it costs them 1-2 cents, these companies have a monopoly on phone, Internet and Cable and they just eliminated all there Internet based TV and phone competition. We all ready pay the highest Internet, cable and phone prices in the world, but not good enough for these greedy turds.

[rugatika]

same idea as bank fees etc...nickle and dime ya to death. We need to be opened up to competition like they have in the states. At one point I looked into getting a cell phone from the states for use up here...can't remember why I didn't go through with it now...lol.

[Northern]

According to the website, I will be charged $2 a Gb over my 125 limit. What a ripoff. The sad thing is we have no options other then signing an online petition. I watch a lot of Netflix so it will be interesting to see how much I use per month. Another way for the rich to get richer and the average Joe get further into debt. I think it's time for me to reevaluate whether I want to contribute to these record profits anymore.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Slannesh

It's not that simple.
Look at it this way, a single blu-ray quality movie that is streamed consumes approximately 12-15 GB of bandwidth. An hour of HDTV at 1080p rings in at around 3 to 5 GB. That eats up a 60GB/month cap REALLY quickly. Nevermind if you like to use something like Skype to video chat or download games.

Are these realistic examples? I think not.

Nobody is streaming 1080p HDTV, you can't even get 1080P HDTV from cable or satellite directly. Netflix isn't 1080P video with DTS-HD, it's more like 720P h.264 with stereo AAC. Try 350MB for an hour, maybe less.

I agree that these rates need to change but what you are doing is fear mongering. Let's have a rational discussion.

[Muskeg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfHjP...yer_detailpage

[Muskeg]

oops

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Muskeg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfHjP...yer_detailpage

Are you kidding? I'm not downloading that! I'll use up all of my free gigibules!

[thefloormat]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Are these realistic examples? I think not.

Nobody is streaming 1080p HDTV, you can't even get 1080P HDTV from cable or satellite directly. Netflix isn't 1080P video with DTS-HD, it's more like 720P h.264 with stereo AAC. Try 350MB for an hour, maybe less.

I agree that these rates need to change but what you are doing is fear mongering. Let's have a rational discussion.

I agree^

We have been talking about this at work for over a month now. I know a handful of guys who got rid of shaw based solely on the way they implemented the cap. they announced upping their data rates a while ago, but in small print said it was only temporary, then they tried to secretly spring this on everyone.

I on average do about 180 gig a month. I dont watch much cable tv, i try to download all my content and watch at my convenience. I also dabble in torrents for new release movies and i use netflix.

I am above the norm, and i wouldnt mind paying a tad extra for that. But those that are at the 2gig per month and paying the current rate, are getting super ripped off. So if I am going to be paying more, I want those using less to be paying less.

Currently I am on telus, who has said that they done see in the very near future capping their rates. they do have a limit set, but they dont enforce it at all. I am going to stick with telus, and if they are smart, if they ever do decide to enforce a cap, they at least double what shaw is offering and advertise the crap out of that, and they will be able to just watch the clients transfer over to them.

I was living overseas for a lot of years, there was no bandwidth cap at all. it was glorious. I had one computer in my house constantly running downloads, whatever I wanted i downloaded. I just set a bandwidth limit in my house so I could still browse the internet with no issues and things were awesome.

I had a friend in the office call netflix, he was told 1hr of sd was about 1gig, and hd which is 720p or at the very most a 1080i(the same as all the satellite and cable providers, dont be fooled by them saying its true HD)was2gigs an hour. So the difference from sd to hd is quite a bit, double.

I think there is totally enough bandwidth for things as it stands right now. But there is no way all the media companies out there will just let the ISP's come in and say no we are capping everything very low. No one would survive.

I think as the demand for consumers to consume their media online and it is offered more and more and the volume of material available online increases, things will change for the better. ISP's will have to adjust to support the volume and deal with it. The world is going fully digital, there is no need or reason to have a dvd library of 4000 movies when it all can be available digitally, whether that be on a home media centre or online. And the bandwidth and technology has to be there to support that massive amount of data.

[Slannesh]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Are these realistic examples? I think not.

Nobody is streaming 1080p HDTV, you can't even get 1080P HDTV from cable or satellite directly. Netflix isn't 1080P video with DTS-HD, it's more like 720P h.264 with stereo AAC. Try 350MB for an hour, maybe less.

I agree that these rates need to change but what you are doing is fear mongering. Let's have a rational discussion.

Fair enough, for today. But 3 or 4 years ago streaming HD at all was a pipe dream right? 3 or 4 years from now i'm sure 1080p will be commonplace.

The point is the big Canadian ISP's are grossly overcharging consumers to begin with, recording record profits and now double gouging us and it needs to be stopped.

I have NO problem at all paying for more bandwidth, I use a lot. But i've already had to upgrade my package to one that costs double what I was paying before and I don't even use netflix. I'd have to go to Shaw's top tier package with an add on data plan if I was getting most of my TV that way.

[birchy]

Signed that petition the other day and got this wonderful reply from Michael Ignatieff today:


Ryan --

It’s another step towards an open and competitive internet in Canada, and it's thanks to you.

Late last night, news broke that Tony Clement will ask the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to reverse their decision on usage-based internet billing – a decision that allows internet service providers to impose download limits and new fees.

Our work is not yet done. We need to keep up the pressure until the CRTC’s decision is reversed once and for all.

Canadian families and businesses need open, affordable, unlimited internet access. The future of our economy depends on it. The Conservative government should have known that from the start.

When messages like yours reached us this past weekend – on Twitter and Facebook, by email, phone and fax – my Liberal colleagues and I knew what we had to do.

On Tuesday morning, we sided with you against the CRTC’s decision. By the end of the day, Liberal MPs on the Industry Committee had already begun an investigation. Then, yesterday, we kept the pressure on the Conservative government during Question Period in the House of Commons. At tonight’s meeting of the Industry Committee, Liberal MPs will tell CRTC Chair Konrad von Finckenstein to reverse course.

This isn't the first time that you’ve stared down the Conservatives over an open internet — and that's why tens of thousands of you visited our action page at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/, to join our digital policy email list and help carry the fight into Parliament.

This is your movement. You rallied on Twitter. You wrote emails and called Tony Clement’s office. You made the difference.

We all know that there are wider issues at stake here. After five years of Stephen Harper, Canada still has no digital plan. The Conservatives’ proposed copyright bill contains unfair digital lock provisions. Canadians are less connected and face higher internet costs than citizens of other OECD countries. And don’t even get me started on the long-form census.

Liberals have been engaged on these issues. In 2009, we worked with the Openmedia.ca / Save Our Net Coalition on Net Neutrality, a position that we support wholeheartedly. Last fall, we announced our Open Government Initiative, which will make government data accessible to all Canadians.

At the heart of our digital policy is a core Liberal value: we must make Canada more competitive and more innovative. That means expanding high-speed internet access to every region of the country, fair and equitable wholesale access, and transparent pricing.

We must build a digital strategy for Canada that embraces the energy, entrepreneurial spirit, and innovative creativity of consumers, businesses and digital influencers like you.

We'll keep the pressure on the Conservatives in Parliament to make sure they follow through and reverse the CRTC’s decision on usage-based billing. This victory is just a taste of what we can accomplish, if we continue this fight together.

I hope you’ll join the Liberal Party's digital policy email list at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/. Let’s build a more open, more competitive future for Canada.

Thank you for being engaged.

Michael Ignatieff

To contact the Liberal Party of Canada, please reply to this email. Our mailing address: 81 Metcalfe street, suite 600 Ottawa ON K1P 6M8.


What a nice guy to personally reply to me! heh heh

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by birchy

Signed that petition the other day and got this wonderful reply from Michael Ignatieff today:


Ryan --

It’s another step towards an open and competitive internet in Canada, and it's thanks to you.

Late last night, news broke that Tony Clement will ask the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to reverse their decision on usage-based internet billing – a decision that allows internet service providers to impose download limits and new fees.

Our work is not yet done. We need to keep up the pressure until the CRTC’s decision is reversed once and for all.

Canadian families and businesses need open, affordable, unlimited internet access. The future of our economy depends on it. The Conservative government should have known that from the start.

When messages like yours reached us this past weekend – on Twitter and Facebook, by email, phone and fax – my Liberal colleagues and I knew what we had to do.

On Tuesday morning, we sided with you against the CRTC’s decision. By the end of the day, Liberal MPs on the Industry Committee had already begun an investigation. Then, yesterday, we kept the pressure on the Conservative government during Question Period in the House of Commons. At tonight’s meeting of the Industry Committee, Liberal MPs will tell CRTC Chair Konrad von Finckenstein to reverse course.

This isn't the first time that you’ve stared down the Conservatives over an open internet — and that's why tens of thousands of you visited our action page at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/, to join our digital policy email list and help carry the fight into Parliament.

This is your movement. You rallied on Twitter. You wrote emails and called Tony Clement’s office. You made the difference.

We all know that there are wider issues at stake here. After five years of Stephen Harper, Canada still has no digital plan. The Conservatives’ proposed copyright bill contains unfair digital lock provisions. Canadians are less connected and face higher internet costs than citizens of other OECD countries. And don’t even get me started on the long-form census.

Liberals have been engaged on these issues. In 2009, we worked with the Openmedia.ca / Save Our Net Coalition on Net Neutrality, a position that we support wholeheartedly. Last fall, we announced our Open Government Initiative, which will make government data accessible to all Canadians.

At the heart of our digital policy is a core Liberal value: we must make Canada more competitive and more innovative. That means expanding high-speed internet access to every region of the country, fair and equitable wholesale access, and transparent pricing.

We must build a digital strategy for Canada that embraces the energy, entrepreneurial spirit, and innovative creativity of consumers, businesses and digital influencers like you.

We'll keep the pressure on the Conservatives in Parliament to make sure they follow through and reverse the CRTC’s decision on usage-based billing. This victory is just a taste of what we can accomplish, if we continue this fight together.

I hope you’ll join the Liberal Party's digital policy email list at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/. Let’s build a more open, more competitive future for Canada.

Thank you for being engaged.

Michael Ignatieff

To contact the Liberal Party of Canada, please reply to this email. Our mailing address: 81 Metcalfe street, suite 600 Ottawa ON K1P 6M8.


What a nice guy to personally reply to me! heh heh

Wow youre engaged to Micheal Ignatieff!!! ou must be soooooo happy lol

[BannedAgain]

Originally Posted by Slannesh

Fair enough, for today. But 3 or 4 years ago streaming HD at all was a pipe dream right? 3 or 4 years from now i'm sure 1080p will be commonplace.

The point is the big Canadian ISP's are grossly overcharging consumers to begin with, recording record profits and now double gouging us and it needs to be stopped.

I have NO problem at all paying for more bandwidth, I use a lot. But i've already had to upgrade my package to one that costs double what I was paying before and I don't even use netflix. I'd have to go to Shaw's top tier package with an add on data plan if I was getting most of my TV that way.

^x2 Exactly. I have no problem paying for my usage...but a reasonable amount. When it only costs ISP's about 2 cents per GB to transfer, and they want to charge 100x that, $2/gb?? That's just a cash grab. To put it into perspective, here is what the ISP's rates would be akin to:

[WayneChristie]

http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...362/story.html

[Kenny345]

Wow that's ridiculous that international shipping and everything is still cheaper than what they're trying to charge us (rip off us, to be correct) Think I'm going to have to cancel my netflix

[Okotokian]

As a low-end user I don't feel I should be subsidizing people who download music and movies obsessively. I've never downloaded a movie in my life. You use more, pay more. Seems very simple to me, fits in terms of free-enterprise orientation, and sends the right messages to the market.

We will see if the Conservative government stands by their free enterprise principles or caves to get votes. I suspect the latter.

Same reason Government should stay out of setting credit card interest rates. NO ONE FORCES YOU TO USE A CREDIT CARD!!!!!

[PowerUser]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

As a low-end user I don't feel I should be subsidizing people who download music and movies obsessively. I've never downloaded a movie in my life. You use more, pay more. Seems very simple to me,

you mean kinda like a guy who wants to go fishing a few times a year has to pay the same licensing fees to subsidize the guys who fish 100 times and keep their limit every time?

You obviously have no clue about ISP's and their infra-structure. They bandwidth is already in place to more than accommodate current usage and more. There's virtually no increased costs per gb to the ISP's. I'd gladly be prepared to pay UBB if it was inline with ISP's costs and profit margins. But when they want to charge a 10,000% mark up on costs, that's getting ridiculous.

[Kim473]

Free Enterprize!!! CASH GRAB!!!! And the government will be all for it. Because they will make more money in taxes, remember the GST, S stands for service LOL. Means more tax money.