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[expmler]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

In the home being the crux of the discussion imo. Whilst another engages the intruder .in the case from above . Nice try though if the missus in our example was a black belt in akido id hold the shot gun whislt she engaged lol

Why would you hold the shot gun, you keep saying there is no need to use one for self defense, yet in both of your scenarios some body has a shotgun.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

To me, it isn't need, it's the right to have the choice.

Perhaps not an urban centre at all, but maybe I want to hike up the Ram and toss in a line or pack a picnic with my gal. I'd like to chose to take a 4" revolver on my hip instead of a 22" rifle on my back. My life, my property, my choice. If I infringe on your quality of life, that's where the legal system should step in. Until then, let me live as I choose.

Actually I believe that the right to carry in the woods should just be a given. It's burgles post on wanting to cleanse that puts ccw/ocw in an odd'ish place for me. imo

[wags]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

Anyone can be.. lunatics and addicts that want to rob you or steal your vehicle can be found in any city in Canada. I would rather be prepared for one of these instances than not.
I am not saying I wouldn't go anywhere without a gun. Just that I would feel safer with one. I have been robbed at knifepoint in Halifax. I would of liked to have had a gun on my hip that night. I betcha I wouldn't of been robbed. And no I wasn't doing anything to deserve it gummer I was walking home with my gf at the time from a club when a guy came out of the alley surprising me. it would of been nice to have a gun in that instance. It can happen anywhere anytime.

1 - or a gun!
2 - is there a reason you continually call him gummer? I've seen it enough times now that I suspect it's purposeful.

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by Gust

You obviously diffused the situation and here you are.

yup 200 bucks cash. that's the answer... give them the money. so they get used to robbing people and can do it over and over to get theior next fix... that's how you stop the problem. I would of rather pulled a gun and told him to get the %^&* back in the alley or im blowing his kneecap off and kept my 200 bucks... he might of thought twice before robbing someone again. But yeah I know poor criminal he is misunderstood... just give him your hard earned money and hopefully he will go buy some dinner and feed his kids etc.
life will go on yes just give your money to anyone who pulls a knife on you and tells you to give you your wallet. That way they will learn that robbing people is a good way to get money its easier and faster than working and little to no risk involved. Not many people I know are going to engage with someone with a knife especially if they have kids and a woman with them that they would rather see not hurt.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Who stated that ???

You keep stating that guns are useless against motivated individuals. Was adolf defeated because he lost motivation.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

To me, it isn't need, it's the right to have the choice.

Perhaps not an urban centre at all, but maybe I want to hike up the Ram and toss in a line or pack a picnic with my gal. I'd like to chose to take a 4" revolver on my hip instead of a 22" rifle on my back. My life, my property, my choice. If I infringe on your quality of life, that's where the legal system should step in. Until then, let me live as I choose.

Many years ago that choice was given ,one can only sumise after years of abuses that choice was removed.

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by wags

1 - or a gun!
2 - is there a reason you continually call him gummer? I've seen it enough times now that I suspect it's purposeful.

1 people will steal anything
2Yes he calls me bungle or something to that effect and I call him gummer its a mutual thing

[wags]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

yup 200 bucks cash. that's the answer... give them the money. so they get used to robbing people and can do it over and over to get theior next fix... that's how you stop the problem. I would of rather pulled a gun and told him to get the %^&* back in the alley or im blowing his kneecap off and kept my 200 bucks... he might of thought twice before robbing someone again. But yeah I know poor criminal he is misunderstood... just give him your hard earned money and hopefully he will go buy some dinner and feed his kids etc.
life will go on yes just give your money to anyone who pulls a knife on you and tells you to give you your wallet. That way they will learn that robbing people is a good way to get money its easier and faster than working and little to no risk involved. Not many people I know are going to engage with someone with a knife especially if they have kids and a woman with them that they would rather see not hurt.

So to clarify, if he didn't have a knife, and had a gun, then you have a gun, so you pull your gun, but his gun is already pulled, and thus, shoots you before you can pull you gun.

New reality: you're dead, life doesn't go on, he still gets the $200 and the kids and woman now have a life of remembering you being shot.

Cheers

[wags]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

To me, it isn't need, it's the right to have the choice.

Perhaps not an urban centre at all, but maybe I want to hike up the Ram and toss in a line or pack a picnic with my gal. I'd like to chose to take a 4" revolver on my hip instead of a 22" rifle on my back. My life, my property, my choice. If I infringe on your quality of life, that's where the legal system should step in. Until then, let me live as I choose.

This my friend would be something I would support. But I don't suspect there's much chance of being attacked by someone in this scenerio, but rather a wild animal.

Cheers

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

Why would you hold the shot gun, you keep saying there is no need to use one for self defense, yet in both of your scenarios some body has a shotgun.

Your initial argument was ludicrous; "I'm here to kill your wife!",, under section 40 criminal/code, merely brandishing the shotgun in such a circumstance would be considered reasonable force to stop the action,,, had she triggered the shell, also likely acceptable,, though long in the courts.

When I asked where your gun is, your answer was as equally as benign as one who would reach for a phone; you replied "it's standing in my bedroom", not helpful if you are playing world of warcraft in the basement.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

Actually I believe that the right to carry in the woods should just be a given. It's burgles post on wanting to cleanse that puts ccw/ocw in an odd'ish place for me. imo

Why do you fear nature.

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by wags

So to clarify, if he didn't have a knife, and had a gun, then you have a gun, so you pull your gun, but his gun is already pulled, and thus, shoots you before you can pull you gun.

New reality: you're dead, life doesn't go on, he still gets the $200 and the kids and woman now have a life of remembering you being shot.

Cheers

yes and that's is life sir you never know what is around the next corner.
same as if I don't have a gun and am drunk and decide to not give him the money and he shoots me too. Anything can happen anytime. Id rather have a gun than not. You might not want one that's cool too I respect your decision

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by expmler

You keep stating that guns are useless against motivated individuals. Was adolf defeated because he lost motivation.

Your making things up ..

[wags]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

1 people will steal anything
2Yes he calls me bungle or something to that effect and I call him gummer its a mutual thing

1 Yes people will steal anything. Point is, less gun laws, more acces to guns, more guns, more guns stolen.

2 Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers

[wags]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

yes and that's is life sir you never know what is around the next corner.
same as if I don't have a gun and am drunk and decide to not give him the money and he shoots me too. Anything can happen anytime. Id rather have a gun than not. You might not want one that's cool too I respect your decision

And I respect yours.

Just illustrating the other side of the debate.

Cheers

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

Why do you fear nature.

I fish, Grizzly big, me small.

I am to Grizzly what your deer baiter is to Elk.

[Burglecut83]

I renig man this is nuts. Im selling all my guns tomorrow. they are useless and serve no purpose. I can buy meat at the grocery store and the police will keep me safe at every corner. Life is awesome without guns

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

Your initial argument was ludicrous; "I'm here to kill your wife!",, under section 40 criminal/code, merely brandishing the shotgun in such a circumstance would be considered reasonable force to stop the action,,, had she triggered the shell, also likely acceptable,, though long in the courts.

When I asked where your gun is, your answer was as equally as benign as one who would reach for a phone; you replied "it's standing in my bedroom", not helpful if you are playing world of warcraft in the basement.

FG's position is that a gun is not needed to defend your self yet when faced with an intruder intending to kill some one he condones the use of a gun.

I said I would reach for my gun, you are the one that assumes I would have to shoot the intruder, I never said anything about shooting him, If I brandish the gun and he flees I have defended myself with a gun.
I doubt brandishing my cell phone would have the same effect.

I am in bed at 2am, my door has an alarm. If the door is opened the alarm goes off and I grab my gun. If alarm scares the intruder off, fine. If not I will not sit defenceless waiting for the police to arrive.

[Unregistered user]

After Dunkirk, Britain was very afraid of a German invasion there was a dire shortage of guns as many were left behind in France and the people just didn't have a whole lot anyway. American sportsman came to the rescue and gave their sporting guns to Britain to help out. These were distributed to newly formed Home Guard units and more yet were held in reserve to give to any Brit ready to fight Jerry if the attack ever came. Law abiding people with guns, terrible business wot?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

I fish, Grizzly big, me small.

I am to Grizzly what your deer baiter is to Elk.

Bear spray.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

FG's position is that a gun is not needed to defend your self yet when faced with an intruder intending to kill some one he condones the use of a gun.

I said I would reach for my gun, you are the one that assumes I would have to shoot the intruder, I never said anything about shooting him, If I brandish the gun and he flees I have defended myself with a gun.
I doubt brandishing my cell phone would have the same effect.

I am in bed at 2am, my door has an alarm. If the door is opened the alarm goes off and I grab my gun. If alarm scares the intruder off, fine. If not I will not sit defenceless waiting for the police to arrive.

You parroted my answer in my post as your answer in your post.

Besides, someone breaking in declaring "I'm going to kill your wife!!" may cause some men to ponder the pro's and cons of such an fortuitous opportunity. jk

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

Bear spray.

My Grizzly fishing area is in one of those parts of the Province where airplanes can take off without having to go down a runway for lift i.e., very windy. Bear Spray also attracts as it decays, so not good for the next fisher coming up/down the creek.

I've also been fishing long enough to know when is best to avoid venturing.

[220swifty]

It comes down to self defense. Period. No need for hypotheticals on this scenario or that, the 'what if ' game gets tired.

It's my life, and I should be granted the right to defend it as I see fit. If I choose fists with a grizzly, or a Glock with a crackhead mugger, that is up to me, so long as it is justifiable. Let's let the legal system absolutely crucify those who overstep 'justifiable'.

This debate also seems to center around men getting mugged or carjacked, but let's not forget about the fairer sex. Rape is a legitimate concern for many females, and I fear it is more common than stats would indicate, as it is believed many go unreported. My wife works evenings at a coffee shop, my sister serves at a lounge. Why should they have to be uneasy walking to their vehicles in the dark, when there is a small, user friendly piece of defensive equipment available that would give them an upper hand on an assailant that outweighs them by 100 lbs and is driven by a hormonal inbalance?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

My Grizzly fishing area is in one of those parts of the Province where airplanes can take off without having to go down a runway for lift i.e., very windy. Bear Spray also attracts as it decays, so not good for the next fisher coming up/down the creek.

I've also been fishing long enough to know when is best to avoid venturing.

So are you going to brandish the gun to stop an attack or shoot the bear.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

So are you going to brandish the gun to stop an attack or shoot the bear.

I'll just not venture into the woods when I know that bears are at their orneriest nor will I take a short cut through a crack neighbourhood a week before welfare checks come out.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

I'll just not venture into the woods when I know that bears are at their orneriest nor will I take a short cut through a crack neighbourhood a week before welfare checks come out.

You just said you wanted to carry a gun in the wild in case you are attacked by a bear. Now you say that you can avoid a bear attack by entering the woods at the right time.
If that is true you should never need to carry a gun into the woods while fishing.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by expmler

Why would you hold the shot gun, you keep saying there is no need to use one for self defense, yet in both of your scenarios some body has a shotgun.

No not essential. Imo personal safety has little to do with personal security billions pf folks on earth right now are perfectly safe without being armed except in the us where ?? Today more will be killed by firearms than well most of the rest of the civilised world. Hmmm how can this be their all armed for persomal protection.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

No not essential. Imo personal safety has little to do with personal security billions pf folks on earth right now are perfectly safe without being armed except in the us where ?? Today more will be killed by firearms than well most of the rest of the civilised world. Hmmm how can this be their all armed for persomal protection.

Wrong, Sandy Hook school, the Aurora Theatre, Fort hood were all gun free zones where arming yourself for self defense was prohibited.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

It comes down to self defense. Period. No need for hypotheticals on this scenario or that, the 'what if ' game gets tired.

It's my life, and I should be granted the right to defend it as I see fit. If I choose fists with a grizzly, or a Glock with a crackhead mugger, that is up to me, so long as it is justifiable. Let's let the legal system absolutely crucify those who overstep 'justifiable'.

This debate also seems to center around men getting mugged or carjacked, but let's not forget about the fairer sex. Rape is a legitimate concern for many females, and I fear it is more common than stats would indicate, as it is believed many go unreported. My wife works evenings at a coffee shop, my sister serves at a lounge. Why should they have to be uneasy walking to their vehicles in the dark, when there is a small, user friendly piece of defensive equipment available that would give them an upper hand on an assailant that outweighs them by 100 lbs and is driven by a hormonal inbalance?

a taser or can of mace?

self defense classes?

personally I find it more liberating to not need to carry a gun. what ifs be damned. if I packed around something for every what if scenario I'd need a rickshaw to pull it all around in and still not have what I need for what if.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

You parroted my answer in my post as your answer in your post.

Besides, someone breaking in declaring "I'm going to kill your wife!!" may cause some men to ponder the pro's and cons of such an fortuitous opportunity. jk

So we agree, guns are a good tool for self defence.