ANOTHER school shooting. -Florida-

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I don't know, I have some ideas, but let's play it safe and arm them.

The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. WHAT A CROCK !

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

First you ban the AR-15, then you ban any semi auto , because the reality is many of the current non restricted semi autos are every bit as dangerous. But people will still be dying, so then you ban all pump actions and lever actions, because they can still deliver a high rate of fire. People will still be dying, so then you ban all firearms, because the reality is that they can all be used to take lives. Once the government gets started banning, the anti gun crowd will keep pushing for more bans, and they won't quit until only the police and military can legally possess firearms. And people will still be dying because of firearms.

I do not buy that reasoning!

Time to try something other than the NRA authorized way of doing nothing!

That was has been proven to do nothing but wait for another mass killing.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I do not buy that reasoning!

Time to try something other than the NRA authorized way of doing nothing!

Feel good legislation is just like taxes, it's addictive, once the government gets going, they don't just stop.

This incident could have been avoided if the FBI had taken appropriate action when they were made aware f the threat. Having them do their job to deal with the cause, rather than ignoring the cause and dealing only with the means, is not doing nothing.

[vcmm]

My if the FBI(Federal Bureau of Incompetency) did the job they are suppose to.
Instead of interfering in politics it might not have happened.

[elkhunter11]

An interesting response from a teacher in Florida.

http://www.ntd.tv/2018/02/17/florida...ng-goes-viral/

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Is that the best you can do? All you seem to do is mention other ways of killing. This is just one of many firearm related school shootings and the weapon of choice was an AR.

I do not give a ratz butt if you somehow think I am an anti and am selling out fellow outdoors men. I am not. I do care more about the loss of young life than protecting the rights of people to their toys.

I do not like the idea of banning any particular type of firearm but I am starting to think there is no good reason for the numerous numbers of ARs in civilian hands. I have changed my mind. Make this type of firearm illegal to possess and come down hard on anyone that has one in their possession and sells them.

Lol. I really want to know how you propose to round up all the AR-15s.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Is that the best you can do? All you seem to do is mention other ways of killing. This is just one of many firearm related school shootings and the weapon of choice was an AR.

I do not give a ratz butt if you somehow think I am an anti and am selling out fellow outdoors men. I am not. I do care more about the loss of young life than protecting the rights of people to their toys.

I do not like the idea of banning any particular type of firearm but I am starting to think there is no good reason for the numerous numbers of ARs in civilian hands. I have changed my mind. Make this type of firearm illegal to possess and come down hard on anyone that has one in their possession and sells them.

And they will use something else.

If you truly believe there is a criminally insane person that is going to abort his evil mission because ONE type of weapon is not available, you sir should seek help.

The reason I mention other methods is because only an insane person would even choose this weapon for a mass killing to begin with and thank God for that.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Feel good legislation is just like taxes, it's addictive, once the government gets going, they don't just stop.

I no longer buy the slippery slop blah blah blah.

The antis will always be there, but in this case I just hear those who want their children to be safe and all I hear is the same old same old from the same old same old crowd. All I hear is certain politicians, the NRA and some so called sportsmen who just say NO to everything and that nothing is their fault.

I am sick and tired of hearing that guns are just tools and I used to believe that. Yes, they are just tools but tools in the wrong hands can be dangerous. Another problem I see is that those tools are only recognized to be in the wrong hands after people have been slaughtered and never before. Often the first sign of mental illness is after a killing and never before.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by MK2750

And they will use something else.

If you truly believe there is a criminally insane person that is going to abort his evil mission because ONE type of weapon is not available, you sir should seek help.

The reason I mention other methods is because only an insane person would even choose this weapon for a mass killing to begin with and thank God for that.

I don't have to truly believe your speculation. The reason you are mentioning other methods is because you are deflecting.

There are enough ARs in the US that no one would ever have to abort anything for lack of availability of an AR.

If you think that your right to your precious AR tools is more important than the children's life and safety, it is you that needs help.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I don't have to truly believe your speculation. The reason you are mentioning other methods is because you are deflecting.

There are enough ARs in the US that no one would ever have to abort anything for lack of availability of an AR.

If you think that your right to your precious AR tools is more important than the children's life and safety, it is you that needs help.

So through all of this no one has stepped forward to say the role the press has played in all of this and working with them to get the sensationalism stories for the sake of ratings stopped. Here is an interesting read on the impact the press has had on cluster mass shootings:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38010220/

When you have people identifying themselves as wanting to be a school shooter, they are getting this idea for a self identity, which would then turn into public recognition from somewhere and it is not their classmates.

This problem has to be approached from multiple angles. Just going after one gun type will not solve the problem and the cry for more will continue without dealing with the other issues. Read the article and come back with a platform of suggestions.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I don't have to truly believe your speculation. The reason you are mentioning other methods is because you are deflecting.

There are enough ARs in the US that no one would ever have to abort anything for lack of availability of an AR.

If you think that your right to your precious AR tools is more important than the children's life and safety, it is you that needs help.

Deflecting from what? The weapon used is irrelevant. It is you that is deflecting from what is clearly a mental illness and social issue to blaming an object.

My point is that nearly every tool in my shed is at least as dangerous as a rifle that just happens to be painted black.

My bolt action rifle is also black so I am sure that will be next on your list when your first plan fails. Then there is my completely evil black Maxus. If you could see what it does to waterfowl you would be on Parliament Hill by morning staging a protest.

[pikergolf]

I wish people would stop harping on mental illness. There are millions upon millions of people that suffer from mental illness that would not hurt a fly. The people that commit these acts,save a few that loose touch with reality, are evil. When evil meets mental illness, that is when there is a problem.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Deflecting from what? The weapon used is irrelevant. It is you that is deflecting from what is clearly a mental illness and social issue to blaming an object.

My point is that nearly every tool in my shed is at least as dangerous as a rifle that just happens to be painted black.

My bolt action rifle is also black so I am sure that will be next on your list when your first plan fails. Then there is my completely evil black Maxus. If you could see what it does to waterfowl you would be on Parliament Hill by morning staging a protest.

Just more blah blah blah! Every tool in your shed at least as dangerous as a rifle that happens to be painted black! ROFLMAO

Come back when you have a real argument.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

So through all of this no one has stepped forward to say the role the press has played in all of this and working with them to get the sensationalism stories for the sake of ratings stopped. Here is an interesting read on the impact the press has had on cluster mass shootings:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38010220/

When you have people identifying themselves as wanting to be a school shooter, they are getting this idea for a self identity, which would then turn into public recognition from somewhere and it is not their classmates.

This problem has to be approached from multiple angles. Just going after one gun type will not solve the problem and the cry for more will continue without dealing with the other issues. Read the article and come back with a platform of suggestions.

There are that abuse the 1st amendment for $$$money$$$ and there are those that abuse the 2nd amendment for $$$money$$$

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

There are that abuse the 1st amendment for $$$money$$$ and there are those that abuse the 2nd amendment for $$$money$$$

Leave the 2nd out of this one. No deflection. Try to stay focused on my point with the press.

How do you get the press to help get these situations under control. Yes sure they will point to the first amendment but if they have a soul they should be willing to help. Or has the US press gone to far and they cannot be pulled back to a sense of reasonableness in helping in a focused way to solve a problem. Multiple groups have to work together.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. WHAT A CROCK !

You really have no clue do you, that is sort of the premise for law enforcement everywhere.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Just more blah blah blah! Every tool in your shed at least as dangerous as a rifle that happens to be painted black! ROFLMAO

Come back when you have a real argument.

Wow! You have absolutely no clue when it comes to firearms do you.

I knew you were a little bit touched after reading your arguments to ban hunting but your insane fear of objects tops that.

It is been proven that people that fear guns are actually afraid of their own abilities to handle dangerous equipment safely. They are incompetent themselves and project this incompetence on to others. You should consider that before continuing on with your anti gun drivel.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

There are that abuse the 1st amendment for $$$money$$$ and there are those that abuse the 2nd amendment for $$$money$$$

In the mid-late 90's (?) one o the gun writers for Outdoor Life wrote an article on the "black rifles". The gist of it basically was that this type of gun had no place in a "sportsmans" gun cabinet and nothing but trouble would come from the growing popularity of these with the general public, All was good until the day the magazine hit the newsstands and the big guy from Colt contacted the big guy at Outdoor Life and reminded him how many advertising dollars Colt spent on the magazine. The writer was fired and in the ensuing months the magazine published articles on how "fun" these guns were to own, shoot and hunt with. Pretty much sums it up.........

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hal53

In the mid-late 90's (?) one o the gun writers for Outdoor Life wrote an article on the "black rifles". The gist of it basically was that this type of gun had no place in a "sportsmans" gun cabinet and nothing but trouble would come from the growing popularity of these with the general public, All was good until the day the magazine hit the newsstands and the big guy from Colt contacted the big guy at Outdoor Life and reminded him how many advertising dollars Colt spent on the magazine. The writer was fired and in the ensuing months the magazine published articles on how "fun" these guns were to own, shoot and hunt with. Pretty much sums it up.........

And then he apologized

Jim Zumbo apologizes:

I was wrong, BIG TIME
"Someone once said that to err is human. I just erred, and made without question, the biggest blunder in my 42 years of writing hunting articles.

My blog inflamed legions of people I love most..... hunters and shooters. Obviously, when I wrote that blog, I activated my mouth before engaging my brain.

Let me explain the circumstances surrounding that blog. I was hunting coyotes, and after the hunt was over and being beat up by 60 mph winds all day, I was discussing hunting with one of the young guides. I was tired and exhausted, and I should have gone to bed early. When the guide told me that there was a "huge" following of hunters who use AR 15's and similar weapons to hunt prairies dogs, I was amazed. At that point I wrote the blog, and never thought it through.

Now then, you might not believe what I have to say, but I hope you do. How is it that Zumbo, who has been hunting for more than 50 years, is totally ignorant about these types of guns. I don't know. I shot one once at a target last year, and thought it was cool, but I never considered using one for hunting. I had absolutely no idea how vast the numbers of folks are who use them.

I never intended to be devisive [sic], and I certainly believe in United we Stand, Divided we Fall. I've been an NRA member for 40 years, have attended 8 national NRA conventions in the last 10 years, and I'm an advisory board member for the United States Sportsmen's Alliance which actively fights anti-hunters and animal rights groups for hunter's rights.

What really bothers me are some of the unpatriotic comments leveled at me. I fly the flag 365 days a year in my front yard. Last year, through an essay contest, I hosted a soldier wounded in Iraq to a free hunt in Botswana. This year, through another essay contest, I'm taking two more soldiers on a free moose and elk hunt.

When I started blogging, I was told to write my thoughts, expressing my own opinion. The offensive blog I wrote was MY opinion, and no one else's. None of the companies that I deal with share that opinion, nor were they aware of what I had written until this firestorm started.

Believe it or not, I'm your best friend if you're a hunter or shooter, though it might not seem that way. I simply screwed up. And, to show that I'm sincere about this, I just talked to Ted Nugent, who everyone knows, and is a Board member of the NRA. Ted is extremely active with charities concerning our wounded military, and though he's known as a bowhunter, Ted has no problem with AR 15's and similar firearms. My sincerity stems from the fact that Ted and I are planning a hunt using AR 15's. I intend to learn all I can about them, and again, I'm sorry for inserting my foot in my mouth."

[hal53]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Here is a little more on that story.

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.ca/20...pologizes.html

Sorry.. forgot to mention he did write an "apology". (I'm not so sure he chose to write it on his own)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hal53

Sorry.. forgot to mention he did write an "apology". (I'm not so sure he chose to write it on his own)

Apparently, he didn't want to give up the money, the free hunts and merchandise that he was used to receiving.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I wish people would stop harping on mental illness. There are millions upon millions of people that suffer from mental illness that would not hurt a fly. The people that commit these acts,save a few that loose touch with reality, are evil. When evil meets mental illness, that is when there is a problem.

I fully agree with this that every mental illness is completely different. I believe that there should be a proper support system put in place for every one to receive the care they need. Maybe someone that cares and some support would subdue the evil you speak of.

[Unregistered user]

Here in Canada, we have a ****-load of guns (Including ARs), many crazy people, lots of psychotropic drug prescriptions written, and lots of schools. WE don't have the school shoot-up problem that our neighbors to the south have. Why is that?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Here in Canada, we have a ****-load of guns (Including ARs), many crazy people, lots of psychotropic drug prescriptions written, and lots of schools. WE don't have the school shoot-up problem that our neighbors to the south have. Why is that?

We have a different "culture" and much less people who have access...

LC

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Here in Canada, we have a ****-load of guns (Including ARs), many crazy people, lots of psychotropic drug prescriptions written, and lots of schools. WE don't have the school shoot-up problem that our neighbors to the south have. Why is that?

We only have about 10% as many schools, far fewer big cities and many less gangs and slums,, which is understandable considering that we only have about 10% of the population of the USA. We also have free medical treatment for people with psychological issues.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. WHAT A CROCK !

And what would you do?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Is that the best you can do? All you seem to do is mention other ways of killing. This is just one of many firearm related school shootings and the weapon of choice was an AR.

I do not give a ratz butt if you somehow think I am an anti and am selling out fellow outdoors men. I am not. I do care more about the loss of young life than protecting the rights of people to their toys.

I do not like the idea of banning any particular type of firearm but I am starting to think there is no good reason for the numerous numbers of ARs in civilian hands. I have changed my mind. Make this type of firearm illegal to possess and come down hard on anyone that has one in their possession and sells them.

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I don't have to truly believe your speculation. The reason you are mentioning other methods is because you are deflecting.

There are enough ARs in the US that no one would ever have to abort anything for lack of availability of an AR.

If you think that your right to your precious AR tools is more important than the children's life and safety, it is you that needs help.

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Just more blah blah blah! Every tool in your shed at least as dangerous as a rifle that happens to be painted black! ROFLMAO

Come back when you have a real argument.

I'll wade in. It's as simple as this: drinking and driving has been banned for a significant period of time, so has speeding and driving in other wreckless manners. More children are killed every year on roads in Florida due to these banned acts using commonly purchased 4 wheeled vehicles then there are in school shootings. For the sake of the children, what should we ban? Should we have governors made mandatory, ignition samplers, maybe autonymous driving all made mandatory?

Three major contributors to violence toward children in the United States are alcohol, poverty and being born out of committed relationships. This abuse results in 1000s of child deaths directly and indirectly every year. Do we ban alcohol? Make some form of forced birth control for persons until they prove commitment and stability? Do we tax you more to pay everyone equally so we reduce adult stress/conflict?

Your ideal of banning a single firearm type to fight mental illness resulting in homicidal rampages might have a noble intent but is logically bent. You can use all of the rhetoric you like but a person that showed the motivation that this offender and others like him will not be detered by access to a firearm. There are so many facets to the issue to say that removing a single.type of tool will have an effect is monstrously misinformed.

The only deflection in this argument is to focus on the method. This outcome was the symptom of a person failed by their family, community, healthcare and school system. The victims were failed the same but also by the law enforcement and justice system.

Your mockery of others on this subject is laughable given the terribly ineffective solution you've offered. Jesting at the tool mattering shows an ignorance to what actually happened here and needs to be stopped so that no more children are harmed.

Wasting time at all on legislating more restriction on an object, when the object is only the extension of the sick person that literally cried out for days before this took place, is asinine. What need to happen is checks and balances and accountability to be legislated into the systems that failed before lives were lost.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Why don't you go wandering around the streets of these 3rd world countries and see if you feel as safe as the good old US of A.

Think it is safer in Germany, Turkey, France???

Just how much freedom do you want to give up for this false sense of security?

Chinese type control, Japan, Iran, Russia????

I like throwing a few guns in the truck and going out shooting when ever I please. Is that too scary for you? Should I have an annual mental stability test? Are my guns too scary? Some are auto loaders

Actually I've walked around the streets of Germany, France and Turkey and the seemed pretty safe to me.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

And what would you do?

If that bad guy didn't have a gun he would be nothing. Some people need a weapon to make themselves feel like a man.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Actually I've walked around the streets of Germany, France and Turkey and the seemed pretty safe to me.

Sure you did, and I am sure you were dodging bullets throughout the US as well.