First signs of the RAMP program

Message from Alberta Fish & Wildlife Division

Alberta Sustainable Resource Development's - Director of Wildlife Management Branch, Ron Bjorge, would like to announce that Alberta's Recreational Access Management Program (RAMP) is now up and running. RAMP is a three-year pilot project, which aims to improve hunting and fishing access and wildlife habitat stewardship on private land in Wildlife Management Units 108 and 300. Information about RAMP will be posted at:

http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/f...p/default.aspx


This site will include about 30 Access Management Plan Maps totalling 132,000 acres of private land that will be open for public hunting opportunities in Alberta. We thank you for your patience and your input in establishing this pilot project. Please take the time to read through the RAMP information online.

If you have any questions about RAMP, please contact the RAMP Coordinator - Grant Chapman by emailing srd.ramp@gov.ab.ca or by phoning (403) 388-7777 (toll free by calling 310-0000).




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srd.alberta.ca
Alberta Sustainable Resource Development, Fish and Wildlife
9920-108 Street
Edmonton, AB T5K 2M4

[bruceba]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

All of this does raise a bit of an ethical delemma though. For those that are adamantly opposed to RAMP (like ARHJ members for example), will you hunt RAMP lands over the next three years knowing that your invlovement in the program will most likely be seen as the desired result by the government and very likely add to the government's case to take it province wide? It's kind of like the preacher that denounces extra marital sex and then gets caught with a prostitute. It's a decision that each and every one of us will need to deal and then live with. It will be interesting to see how much conviction some have.......

As mentioned in one of my earlier posts I had to, the way I read the rules, sign in to cross RAMP propperty. Did I fill out the survey card and send it in?
You bet I did it was all negative.

[bruceba]

Just recieved a message from Alberta Fish and Wildlife related to the Ramp site update link. How the heck did they get my work email address logged into a mass mailout. Better yet who all did they give my work email address out to and how did they get it in the first place?

Originally Posted by bruceba

Just recieved a message from Alberta Fish and Wildlife related to the Ramp site update link. How the heck did they get my work email address logged into a mass mailout. Better yet who all did they give my work email address out to and how did they get it in the first place?

I'm guessing you gave it to them when you signed up for mywildalberta or albertarelm. I'm sure they aren't in the business of selling e-mail addies. I'm betting it's safe with them.

Originally Posted by bruceba

As mentioned in one of my earlier posts I had to, the way I read the rules, sign in to cross RAMP propperty. Did I fill out the survey card and send it in?
You bet I did it was all negative.

So what did you say that was negative?

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm betting it's safe with them.

About as safe as our heritage of not having to pay for access.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm betting it's safe with them.

I'll bet.

[kevpack]

Check your profile on Alberta Relm, you can change your e-mail address if you like

Originally Posted by chuck

I'll bet.

LOL...so why give them your addy in the first place if you are that worried. Hotmail and Gmail accounts are free. Seems to me if you were that worried about misuse of your e-mail addy that you wouldn't give it to them in the first place.

I can hear another conspiracy theory coming

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL...so why give them your addy in the first place if you are that worried. Hotmail and Gmail accounts are free. Seems to me if you were that worried about misuse of your e-mail addy that you wouldn't give it to them in the first place.

I can hear another conspiracy theory coming

I didn't. Did I say that I did?

Originally Posted by MAV

I guess the problem with that map is that we don't have one from last year issued by all the hunters that did have access painting in the colors.

I just took a look at this for the first time http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/f...n-July2009.pdf

Considering some of the questions on it, the government should have a pretty good idea of what the map looked like last year. Be interesting to ask them how many landowners didn't allow hunting in previous years according to the questions on the application. Might make for an interesting baseline to work from.

[Top of the Foodchain]

Sorry just checked out this thread, but I've hunted in 108 for years, and hunted on alot of these lands now listed for RAMP, Why are we paying for access to land, everyone already hunted. Some good areas, but I think I'll hunt elsewhere this year. THIS WHOLE MESS IS MAKING ME ILL. Maybe it's time to quit altogether, or maybe thats what they want.... This program is crap..........and so is this government that has insisted on helping us get access we already had!!!!!

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Top of the Foodchain

Sorry just checked out this thread, but I've hunted in 108 for years, and hunted on alot of these lands now listed for RAMP, Why are we paying for access to land, everyone already hunted. Some good areas, but I think I'll hunt elsewhere this year. THIS WHOLE MESS IS MAKING ME ILL. Maybe it's time to quit altogether, or maybe thats what they want.... This program is crap..........and so is this government that has insisted on helping us get access we already had!!!!!

You're right. It's a joke that is going to echoed province wide for years/generations. Is there anything this recent government has implemented that hasn't been a complete disaster? I'm sick with you.

[B-radshaw]

Well there is now a nice big RAMP sign posted on the land I have hunted since I was a kid.... I stopped and looked at this map. They have it completely backwards. Everything is upside down. Took me a little bit to figure out where the heck I was. I hope the people that wish to use the ramp program will take the time to educate themselves about the land they are hunting and make sure they dont wander off onto non participating lands. I will be putting up my RAMP ENDS HERE signs on our land where it borders ramp land. What sucks is iv developed a good freindship with this land owner and up until no could access and the land as I pleased. Apparently now I have to follow ramp rules and hunt my alloted two days and schedule more if i want to hunt. This property is owned by three different land owners but is under one name under ramp.... I wonder how that works?

[Rackmastr]

I think the truly SCARIEST part about RAMP (though there are a lot of several things that could happen in the future) is the following situation:

When/If this 'pilot program' is cancelled, would it not be safe to assume that several of the landowners who have signed up for RAMP will become upset and potentially stop allowing access? When the program is cancelled, I can see several of these landowners getting quite upset about the fact that they are not receiving compensation and will then STOP allowing access (which they have given for several years for free).

Not only are we paying for access which we have always had in the past with no issues, now we are potentially going to LOSE property access if/when the program is scrapped and the money is not being paid to these landowners. I think it would be easy to see why some of these landowners would become quite bitter at participating and then having the program swept out from under them.....

Rack,
I wish I could share your optimism that the program will be cancelled. With no baseline data to compare results to; and an unclear process to evaluate it; and with the current minister so fixated on ramming it through; and (worst of all) the same U of C people evaluating it that are cohorts of Morton's and who were heavy drivers of the working group and pilot I really don't see how it will get anything but a passing grade.
The only hope I held out that it would be cancelled before it started was the impact of the recession and a tight budget. Miraculously it still went ahead. Now given it was pushed through in a climate of deficit spending and outcry over cuts to health care and education I cannot see anyway it will be cancelled. I can hope though, I suppose.

[Vindalbakken]

My only prayer is that you are as myopic as your name. Unfortunately your logic is too sound. Is prayer the only way?

[Rackmastr]

Magoo,

Very true, and I'm merely pointing out that its a No-win situation if it continues or even if its cancelled. I can see a bad thing happening either way, just as a result of it being introduced. Crappy deal!

Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo

Rack,
I wish I could share your optimism that the program will be cancelled. With no baseline data to compare results to; and an unclear process to evaluate it; and with the current minister so fixated on ramming it through; and (worst of all) the same U of C people evaluating it that are cohorts of Morton's and who were heavy drivers of the working group and pilot I really don't see how it will get anything but a passing grade.
The only hope I held out that it would be cancelled before it started was the impact of the recession and a tight budget. Miraculously it still went ahead. Now given it was pushed through in a climate of deficit spending and outcry over cuts to health care and education I cannot see anyway it will be cancelled. I can hope though, I suppose.

But we do have some baseline data...check out the questions on the landowner application. Guess we just need to ask for it.

Well yes there are some things to be gleaned from that. But what I would consider real data that substantiate (or does not substantiate) the program there is still little or nothing. Of course survey data from the very people who stand to gain from the program must be taken with suspicion.
Hunter satisfaction(prior), getting new hunters in the field (how measured?), game numbers (counts and surveys).
I just can't get past the fact that landowners are now being paid for what they had always given away for free.

Why be suspicious until you actually see the data......haven't there been enough conspracy theories? Why not ask for the data and if it looks skewed challenge it rather than accusing the government of yet another conspiracy before knowing the facts. So far Grant has been pretty forthcoming with information. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one until I actually see the data for myself.

There is a saying about self-fulfilling prophesies that eludes me right now but I'd like to think that the data may be a powerful bit of info to have.

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Why be suspicious until you actually see the data......haven't there been enough conspracy theories? Why not ask for the data and if it looks skewed challenge it rather than accusing the government of yet another conspiracy before knowing the facts. So far Grant has been pretty forthcoming with information. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one until I actually see the data for myself.

There is a saying about self-fulfilling prophesies that eludes me right now but I'd like to think that the data may be a powerful bit of info to have.

Going down the very road that started all the pettiness and bickering are we?
Just wait and see.
Big picture.
Need the details before judging.
Progressive move.
Now the great font of information and leading the charge against it.
Keep banging your drum, for the new readers you might fool a few.

Nothing petty about it Magoo, just trying to state a fact. You seem to have thrown your arms in the air in defeat and it would be sad to see you drag others down with you. There seems to be a new crop of people willing to join in the battle and it seems prudent to me to try and get all the facts in their hands that we can......not tell them all is lost or scold them for not joining in earlier. At least that's my take. Yes, I'll keep beating the drum. This isn't about me or you magoo, it's about the future of hunting in this province. I just don’t see the point of constantly going on about how the data won’t be interpreted properly or that the U of C is in cahoots with Morton and that there’s no use even trying. It’s all we have right now so why not get our hands on it and see what it says before deciding it’s worthless? It might actually be quite worthwhile.

There’s no conspiracy with my motives either like you’ve tried to outline. I’m but one small player as are you and I’ve chosen the path of trying to gather facts and then use that info to help bring down RAMP. I think the facts will do that. You need to quit looking for a hidden agenda in everything. There isn’t one with me. While you chose to write inflammatory documents, I chose to gather facts. Hopefully both our tacts add to the demise of RAMP but I can tell you right now that seeing a conspiracy in everything won’t. It really detracts from the real issues. There is enough actually flawed about RAMP to bring it down, we don’t need to constantly muddy the waters with wild speculation and conspiracy theories. Many hunters and politicians are just getting up to speed on RAMP so why confuse them when the facts pretty much speak for themselves? Nothing personal in anything I say Magoo and I have great respect for all individuals that have joined in the fight against OSA and RAMP. I just think it critical to keep things focused. I’m truly sorry if you took what I said personally, it was definitely not meant that way.

[Hoser99]

My feeling is that if we are able to trash this foolish RAMP program we may lose access to lands we currently have access to in zones 108 and 300. To me, this is a very smal price to pay if it means reversing this ill considered program.
I say focus our efforts to shutting this down. These farmers aren't stupid. If they see the program die they won't forget hunters who showed friendship and respect. They didn't look for money before....
Meter just ran out on my 2 cents worth

[hal53]

Another thing we have to remember here, I think, is the Conservatives absolute hold on power is being seriously eroded...the thought " that 1 vote won't make a difference" may be not as true as it has been in the past, if every AO member would e-mail / Call their MLA raising their concerns over this, it will make a difference.

[loetv]

Originally Posted by Hoser99

My feeling is that if we are able to trash this foolish RAMP program we may lose access to lands we currently have access to in zones 108 and 300. To me, this is a very smal price to pay if it means reversing this ill considered program.
I say focus our efforts to shutting this down. These farmers aren't stupid. If they see the program die they won't forget hunters who showed friendship and respect. They didn't look for money before....
Meter just ran out on my 2 cents worth

If one season hunting cost $1000-2000. will smal price . I offer $200-300 per one hunter .

[qballs]

Just got back from opening morning for pheasants. Went to my usual spot - now part of the RAMP program. Holy smokes, there were at least twice as many hunters as usual. Had some guys jump in front of us 500 yards in the same coulee, ticked me off.

Then went and found some of my other haunts, and had a great day!
Right now - jury is still out for me on RAMP. I liked the maps that you could take.