Baiting In Alberta

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

IMHO....it could be anywhere that we have game farms.

Thanks Sheep

I couldn't agree more so your answer is yes.....
I see you edited your post so i added a bit myself....lol
Nice to hear you only post your own personal opinions.....
Nikon

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Baiting is going to increase risk of disease in our whitetails...that is an undisputable fact. I guess we could throw calculations around all day as to the percentage of the increase in risk but the fact that it increases risk is good enough for me to say no.

You have always promoted and been an advocate of opportunity for the sportsmen and woman in the field. Here we ask if baiting should be a legal form to hunt over, would this not promote additional opportunities for our sport? Until artificial baiting is banned for all, you I thought would be beating the drum and standing tall to promote opportunities and options for our sport.

Ya ya bait will increase risk, but until everyone plays by the same rules, I think we ALL should take this topic and push for the legalization for hunting purposes. May not blow your hair back, nor some others, same as the great cross bow debate with many archers

What the heck is the difference when Joe is using artificial bait to take photo's and has no intentions of hunting, legal as it gets... But some guy or gal that buys a wildlife certificate and general tag is discriminated against ?

Why has SRD not banned all baiting period then if we are so worried about increased risk ? I know, how could they possibly study the habits of ungulates with-out a pile of grain and a trail cam

I have even heard a technique to catch out of season poachers is a artificial bait and a trail cam to prove with pictures the trophy ungulate was taken out of season.. Sask for sure uses this technique and pretty sure it is employed in Alberta as well..

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

can i ask you a question? .. what do you think we should do differn,t than the National Program that Trent Bollinger and assocates suggest

David

Well David, for a start we should as sportsmen and women stand up and unite for opportunity and options of artificial baiting for the purposes of hunting. Why can anyone other than a person who purchases a wildlife certificate use artificial bait for their personal pleasure all year when we can not ? That would be a start hey, play by the same rule book and not discriminate against the our sport

Hey if we are so worried, diversified agriculture should be stopped period, anything for profit that presents a risk should end.

Wouldn't it be cool if we removed the animals from zoos and exhibits the public has access too ? Not sure but last time I seen a zoo animal it certainly was at greater risk than a friggen deer munching some grain in the wild..

Again, why are we discriminated against 3 months of the year, we paid too to enjoy our resources with our wildlife certificate and general tag system.

We eat our own cause our beliefs are different, our heritage is doomed and options to enjoy are dwindling faster than CWD will ever spread ( IMO )

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

You have always promoted and been an advocate of opportunity for the sportsmen and woman in the field. Here we ask if baiting should be a legal form to hunt over, would this not promote additional opportunities for our sport? Until artificial baiting is banned for all, you I thought would be beating the drum and standing tall to promote opportunities and options for our sport.

I'm all for increased opoprtunity just not at any cost to our wildlife. You need to run a net/cost benefit analysis and if the costs outweigh the benefits...well the answer is simple. Putting our wildlife at further risk of disease is not a good investment in the future. We could very likely be taking opportunity away.

Why has SRD not banned all baiting period then if we are so worried about increased risk

Good question....I wouldn't be surprised to see it addressed in the near future considering their belief that baiting helps spread CWD.

What the heck is the difference when Joe is using artificial bait to take photo's and has no intentions of hunting, legal as it gets... But some guy or gal that buys a wildlife certificate and general tag is discriminated against ?

I agree they should be treated equally

[grinr]

I haven't read the entire 11 pages,but I'll offer a perspective as somebody that grew up in a province where the deer baiting culture is very much alive and legal....I don't like it,plain and simple.
First and foremost,it's just not my style.I'm a diehard stillhunter/rattler,sitting over a pile of apples day after day watching the same doe and kids,hoping that a legal buck might eventually come along would drive me mental.....I always have to find out what's over the next hardwood ridge and see what I can shake out?
2)I hunt far too many places in a typical deer season to invest that kind of time and effort into one spot.....I like variety.I have at least a cpl dozen "honey holes" back home within a 1 hr radius that I love to visit,do some in season scouting/see what's around for sign etc.,typically until I find the kind of big buck sign that gets me excited.There is not enough days in a 7 week deer season for me to even scratch the surface of all the places I'd like to hunt...I can't be everywhere.
3)New Brunswick's forests are peppered with 10's of thousands of wild apple trees from almost 500 years of settlements that came and went.Find the apples/find the deer.....be damned if I'm gonna lug apples when I can't even make time to even hunt a fraction of the wild orchards that I know.

Lastly...or again(?)....it's simply just not how I enjoy hunting WT.
IMHO,it takes very little skill or hunting savvy to dump a pile of apples in a cedar swamp/bedding area and sit there until a deer comes along and you blast it from a treestand 30 yards away with a scoped high powered rifle.Sadly,there's far too many "deer hunters" in NB that would be at a total loss for how to find deer if you took away their bait piles.No,it's not a slam dunk gaurantee of success,and no,not alot of wise old bucks fall for the bait pile,but feed the girls and the bucks will follow,and sometimes they slip up and come in before dark.Then you have these master baiter asshats thumping their chest cuz they lucked out and killed a decent buck while it was choking down an apple......pfffft.....sorry,I'm not impressed.I really feel it considerably diminishes what should be an accomplishment to be proud of.
So legalize it or don't in AB....makes no difference to me really,I won't be baiting.I spose it's ok and fun for a 14 year old boy desperate to draw first blood,but once you got a cpl kills under yer belt,maybe it's time to actually learn how to hunt WT deer on their terms,any monkey can feed them and they will come,and yea ya might get lucky and kill a Booner.....not likely,but even a blind pig finds the odd truffle?
Maybe I'm just a method snob?I'm a stillhunter/rattler/vocal caller/part-time stump sitter if I find the kind of sign that gets me excited enough to have the patience.I hunt with either a bow or caplock ML,up close and personal.I guess for me these days it's more about the "how" then the "how many",I don't need a deer in the freezer that badly nor another rack for the wall desperately enough to waste good quality deer huntn time lugn bait.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm all for increased opoprtunity just not at any cost to our wildlife. You need to run a net/cost benefit analysis and if the costs outweigh the benefits...well the answer is simple. Putting our wildlife at further risk of disease is not a good investment in the future. We could very likely be taking opportunity away.



Good question....I wouldn't be surprised to see it addressed in the near future considering their belief that baiting helps spread CWD.



I agree they should be treated equally

So until SRD does ban all artificial baiting we should all be equal. Hunting over, photography, study, ext.. But EQUAL

[saskfly]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Classic CJD http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cjd/index.htm
vCJD http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/vcjd/index.htm (talks about how they know its from BSE)

Kuru http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001379.htm

CWD interesting little paper. http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://...0Z8NzC1RES94BA

No one can definitively say where CWD comes from. There are three theories. Scrapie jumped the species barrier in the research facility in Colorado (where the disease was first identified, with mule deer housed in the same pens as scrapie infected sheep once housed), it is a sporadic disease that has appeared and disappeared, or its always been there but no one was looking for it.

If its natural then we should do nothing. Let it runs its course I guess. Bury heads in sand. Do nothing.

That doesn't sound right to me. Does it to anyone else? Research, and maybe just maybe we will find answers. Maybe a vaccine. Maybe the source. Maybe nothing.

What we do know is that CWD is spread from animal to animal without having to ingest infected brain or spinal column like BSE or Kuru. It can be spread live animal to live animal and it can stay in the environment for a really really long time.

So from that we can say that lower the density of animals in any given spot should slow the disease. One thing we have going for us in Alberta verses Wisconsin, Colorado and others. Don't artifically group animals in close areas, (baiting) where the concentration of the prion can increase. Seems to me prevention is worth more than anything.

Awesome,

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a read and see if it does anything to change my outlook!

What are your thoughts on deer culling if I might ask?

Correct me if I am wrong but culling a population in an area with ideal habitat will create a meta population. In this case CWD infected deer will move into that habitat. Wouldn't this aid in pushing CWD further into the province?

[honkerman]

It is funny how everyone can say lets keep killing ALL the deer to "test for CWD". Just a news flash from an WMU along the SASK boarder. YOU WIN!! There is only 15% of the population left compared to the numbers before. The only way to further your feeble minded outlook on CWD is to eliminate ALL the deer in Alberta and build a fence around it and never have any deer here ever again. Thats what I am advocating for. We out East are going to push back and push for the Cull/Kill province wide.

Im sure SHEEPHUNTER really wants that!!! What he has suggested that we start a complete erradication of all cervids in the WMU there are game farms. I wonder if that will include all WMU'S??


In our WMU we have had couple of winters of winter kill (not last year but the years before) and a huge oilfield expansion. Our deer have already been wiped out by mother natures and 18 wheelers never mind the rediculas numbers of deer people are killing because "they can".

Its funny how a few certin people like to push the CWD issue. The simple question about baiting as quickly hijacked by the CWD spokesperson/advocate.

LETS KILL ALL THE DEER!!!!

Originally Posted by honkerman

Im sure SHEEPHUNTER really wants that!!! What he has suggested that we start a complete erradication of all cervids in the WMU there are game farms. I wonder if that will include all WMU'S??
!!!

So I say I don't support baiting because it could increase the risk of disease and suddenly I want a complete erradication of all cervids in game farm WMUs....interesting leap and without a net even.

I used to really enjoy this site when people had intelligent conversations and weren't constantly putting words in other people's mouths that they never said nor had an intention of saying.....not so much anymore. Pehaps show me where I said that or just stick to your own words and not inventing ones for me....pretty pathetic actually. Go honk somewhere else man.

[CBintheNorth]

It's easy to see that plenty of people are frustrated with what happened to their hunting zones during the cull. I don't live or hunt in any of these zones so I can't say what it looks like; by the sounds of it, not very good.

When situations get heated though, it's MORE important to stick to facts and data. No one in this thread has asked for the eradication of all the deer in Alberta.

I think that my biggest worry is now that cwd is present in our province, we must take steps to preserve the population....not five years from now, but 50 years from now.

The cull may or may not have helped but the fact remains that baiting will definitely NOT help the preservation of our herds. This is because it has been proven to create situations which promote the spread of this disease.

And the fact that srd allows the use of bait for anything, based on the facts, shows very poor judgement on their part.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Justin O most of your questions can be answer in www.cwd-info.org wish more people would read up on this and inform others

the thing to do is slow it at the border and keep it there as in 20 or so years it will stop there or we will have other ways of stopping the spread as of right now we need time to find answers if you look at Colorado its everywhere is that what you want in Alberta in some spots its 25% of the herds

complete BS david. PLEASE stop drinking the koolaid that srd has been pushing for the last 7 years.

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Dale where do you get your numbers can you post studys as i said the infected rate in some Elk herds is 25 % and in some areas of Col the deer density is very very low in the reports i have read ..

]also what do u understand as to the way to handle this disease? we have spots that have 170 ungulates per square mile as you are aware of [/B]
David

here you go. this one shows a current number for mule deer.

http://www.cohunter.com/news/2012/au...e-deer-update/

The current population is about 418,000 compared with 430,000 a year ago.
#Wildlife managers say more than hunting pressure has put deer herds on the Western Slope on the decline. The drop, they say, is the result of the degradation of deer habit from a variety of human activities.

here is one for elk from 1998

http://www.trophyelkbook.com/tips.html
Which state has the largest elk population? Colorado has the largest herd with an estimated elk population of 229,000 animals (1998).

and here is one for 2009....sorry, couldnt find 2012....

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5170655_co...formation.html
Colorado is home to the largest elk population in the nation--an estimated 292,000 head in 2009, according the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.

but that is important as it shows clear increases in elk numbers....NOT decreasing herds.

http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2010/1...ng_rm_0910_01/
this report lists numbers by region....but not every region. It accounts for over 40000 whitetails. Cant find exact number s for state.

add these whitetails and you end up with three quarters of a million deer and elk in colorado.....a state of almost 270 000 sq km, and you have around 3 animals per sq km. care to guess how much higher that density is than what we have in alberta?

you state 25 % infection rates. the highest i can find in colorado is around 12.8% in a small localized area.....but look at the maps by species in this link and you will see how much of colorado is cwd free. remember that srd told us we would have 100% infection by 2015, but colorado has had it longer than anyone and their infection rate is nowhere close to the doom and gloom being told to us.


http://wildlife.state.co.us/hunting/...s/CWDHome.aspx


donkey oatey....THANK YOU for taking the time to educate yourself on this disease. to see some facxtual info is refreshing for sure....but then you throw out this opinion and i shake my head....

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

[url] Seems to me prevention is worth more than anything.

now how the hell do you prevent a disease that by your words isnt alive. the only thing tried is culling, and that has proven to be a complete waste of time and resources every single place it has been tried.


please everyone that cares....read all these links. srd has been flat out lying form the beginning. the sad part is how many have bought their garbage when the facts are found so easily on the interweb.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

It's easy to see that plenty of people are frustrated with what happened to their hunting zones during the cull. I don't live or hunt in any of these zones so I can't say what it looks like; by the sounds of it, not very good.

When situations get heated though, it's MORE important to stick to facts and data. No one in this thread has asked for the eradication of all the deer in Alberta.

I think that my biggest worry is now that cwd is present in our province, we must take steps to preserve the population....not five years from now, but 50 years from now.

The cull may or may not have helped but the fact remains that baiting will definitely NOT help the preservation of our herds. This is because it has been proven to create situations which promote the spread of this disease.

And the fact that srd allows the use of bait for anything, based on the facts, shows very poor judgement on their part.

Agree

David

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

So until SRD does ban all artificial baiting we should all be equal. Hunting over, photography, study, ext.. But EQUAL

This I can agree with, baiting should be either an all or none activity. Regardless of the reasons for doing the baiting.

LC

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

donkey oatey....THANK YOU for taking the time to educate yourself on this disease. to see some facxtual info is refreshing for sure....but then you throw out this opinion and i shake my head....



now how the hell do you prevent a disease that by your words isnt alive. the only thing tried is culling, and that has proven to be a complete waste of time and resources every single place it has been tried.


please everyone that cares....read all these links. srd has been flat out lying form the beginning. the sad part is how many have bought their garbage when the facts are found so easily on the interweb.

Actually what I said was

Originally Posted by DonkeyOatey

So from that we can say that lower the density of animals in any given spot should slow the disease. One thing we have going for us in Alberta verses Wisconsin, Colorado and others. Don't artificially group animals in close areas, (baiting) where the concentration of the prion can increase. Seems to me prevention is worth more than anything.

The prevention was mentioned as part of the discussion on baiting. Don't artificially congregate deer through baiting. That is the prevention part I was talking about.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

The prevention was mentioned as part of the discussion on baiting. Don't artificially congregate deer through baiting. That is the prevention part I was talking about.

I am curious if you employ trail/game cameras at all....and do you use bait near them?

Curious how many folks are against baiting for hunting but use bait for trail/game cameras.....

LC

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I am curious if you employ trail/game cameras at all....and do you use bait near them?

Curious how many folks are against baiting for hunting but use bait for trail/game cameras.....

LC

I don't. I also don't put bales or feed out for the deer. Well I guess other than the bird feeder which they like to come lick the seeds out of here in town.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Actually what I said was




The prevention was mentioned as part of the discussion on baiting. Don't artificially congregate deer through baiting. That is the prevention part I was talking about.

ahhhhh....ok, thanks for the explanation. in that case, you sir get a giganto pat on the back for a job well done in doing a little reading and obtaining some facts. i wish EVERYONE would do that.

LC....i use game cams....and i regularly hunt saskatchewan where baiting is legal. i have never used bait for anything....unless you count does in november, or canola fields, or water holes, or any of the other methods that work so much better.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

LC....i use game cams....and i regularly hunt saskatchewan where baiting is legal. i have never used bait for anything....unless you count does in november, or canola fields, or water holes, or any of the other methods that work so much better.

I use trail cams too.

I was just curious about the folks who are against hunting over baits what the reasoning is.....CWD, personal ethics, etc.

It would seem odd to me that someone who baited for pictures would be against baiting for hunting and cited CWD issues as the reason

LC

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I use trail cams too.

I was just curious about the folks who are against hunting over baits what the reasoning is.....CWD, personal ethics, etc.

It would seem odd to me that someone who baited for pictures would be against baiting for hunting and cited CWD issues as the reason

LC

im honestly not sure how i feel about it. on one hand, concentrating deer IS known to be a factor in the transmission...on the other hand, baiting is leagl and widely employed just a few miles east of us, and SK has had the disease a little longer than us. infection rates are saying so far that it has no measurable effect.

i think the better reason not to allow it is because of the conflict is creates among hunters in SK....and that would absolutely happen here as well. it already exists among bear baiters. as for the lazy, unethical etc comments.....get farked....especially from some of the clowns that have said it knowing some of the tactics they employ. if everyone would just use some respect out there the world would be a better place.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

complete BS david. PLEASE stop drinking the koolaid that srd has been pushing for the last 7 years.


you state 25 % infection rates. the highest i can find in colorado is around 12.8% in a small localized area.....but look at the maps by species in this link and you will see how much of colorado is cwd free. remember that srd told us we would have 100% infection by 2015, but colorado has had it longer than anyone and their infection rate is nowhere close to the doom and gloom being told to us.


http://wildlife.state.co.us/hunting/...s/CWDHome.aspx


donkey oatey....THANK YOU for taking the time to educate yourself on this disease. to see some facxtual info is refreshing for sure....but then you throw out this opinion and i shake my head....



now how the hell do you prevent a disease that by your words isnt alive. the only thing tried is culling, and that has proven to be a complete waste of time and resources every single place it has been tried.


please everyone that cares....read all these links. srd has been flat out lying form the beginning. the sad part is how many have bought their garbage when the facts are found so easily on the interweb.

here is one where the report is refered too at 25% in a hot-spot

btw you should give Trent a call i did (Lead CWD Canada)

also there are 1700 unglates in 10 sq miles but the number is more like 2200 and the elk number in that area are 100 per sq mile acording to the guys that work there .. which is 25 miles from me which is Cadomin.. so 170 per sq mile(survey) or 220 acording to the guys .. you know that area well

David


Dr. Trent Bollinger, Department of Veterinary Pathology, Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan


Chronic wasting disease was introduced into Saskatchewan through the importation of infected farmed elk from the United States in the late 1980s. Further cases were detected in other Saskatchewan game farms as part of the CWD management and surveillance program; these infections were linked back to the original source.


The disease then spread from the elk and deer farms to wild cervids in at least three locations in Saskatchewan, and was first detected in a wild mule deer near the Alberta border in 2000. Since then, CWD has spread to cover much of the south-western part of the province and into eastern Alberta; it has also spread easterly and is now within ~100 km of the Manitoba border.


Incentives for hunters were introduced to reduce deer populations in CWD areas, including free hunting permits, increases to the number of animals per license, and expansion of permits to allow harvesting of younger males and females. The programs had mixed results: in some areas the cervid population decreased; in other areas it increased. Over the ten years since the introduction of CWD, its prevalence in mule deer has increased to approximately 5% in some areas. One cluster or "hot spot" has a CWD infection rate of 25%.

[Speckle55]

also here is their reg's in Col

i just got off the ph with Bob Davies from Col F&W CWD and asked if he new of infection rates in some areas/herds of 25% or more and he answer yes also ask him if deer number.s in some GMU had drop off and he said yes but said it was a comb of them and CWD and they are now getting them back up
he also said that in his pro opinion baiting should be banned and in his state it is

quote

thanks Bob


David

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fu...tions?state=CO

[justinO]

If baiting/ (feeding deer to survive the winters) as some are saying should be illegal even out of season, well then the whole agricultural industry has to stop. We have to stop all human influence. No more cutlines or clear cuts in the bush, There can be no more crops left up either by mistake or on purpose, and absolutely zero bails/grain piles or spills left out Unless they put a ten foot fence around them. Do you people not watch deer and elk in January and February? They herd up to survive winters without bait. They are constantly licking each other and in contact heaven forbid they find a food source when there is 10 ft of snow to help them survive. I have seen elk and deer in farmers fields so concentrated they look like cattle well years ago anyways. Good luck keeping a herd of 600+ elk out of contact with one another. What about during the rut when a bull will mate with 100's of cows pretty direct contact. And a buck running around licking every does Woooha.. Maybe instead of reading reports get out and watch some animals and tell me how they are going to stop them from being in contact???

Just to be clear I am talking about natural grains. NOT giving the animals mega rack builder 8000, horse steroids and other things that are unnatural.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by justinO

If baiting/ (feeding deer to survive the winters) as some are saying should be illegal even out of season, well then the whole agricultural industry has to stop. We have to stop all human influence. No more cutlines or clear cuts in the bush, There can be no more crops left up either by mistake or on purpose, and absolutely zero bails/grain piles or spills left out Unless they put a ten foot fence around them. Do you people not watch deer and elk in January and February? They herd up to survive winters without bait. They are constantly licking each other and in contact heaven forbid they find a food source when there is 10 ft of snow to help them survive. I have seen elk and deer in farmers fields so concentrated they look like cattle well years ago anyways. Good luck keeping a herd of 600+ elk out of contact with one another. What about during the rut when a bull will mate with 100's of cows pretty direct contact. And a buck running around licking every does Woooha.. Maybe instead of reading reports get out and watch some animals and tell me how they are going to stop them from being in contact???

Just to be clear I am talking about natural grains. NOT giving the animals mega rack builder 8000, horse steroids and other things that are unnatural.

They have a fence around golf courses now/hi-ways
and over passes and weed picking in Parks Canada now

in Austrailia they have a fence that is very long .....maybe thats what we need.... it may be cheaper to control CDW
just along the infective areas to stop the travelers

Food for Thought

David

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...als/index.html

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

They have a fence around golf courses now/hi-ways
and over passes and weed picking in Parks Canada now

in Austrailia they have a fence that is very long .....maybe thats what we need.... it may be cheaper to control CDW
just along the infective areas to stop the travelers

Food for Thought

David

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...als/index.html

CWD Fence would be smart as long as there is no other cases of CWD anywhere else in the province. If that is the case well then the cull was a total waste anyways.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

They have a fence around golf courses now/hi-ways
and over passes and weed picking in Parks Canada now

in Austrailia they have a fence that is very long .....maybe thats what we need.... it may be cheaper to control CDW
just along the infective areas to stop the travelers

Food for Thought

David

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...als/index.html

Hey David.

Answer me this. Are domesticated Elk and deer still distributed throught out the province? One elk or deer farm to another?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by honkerman

It is funny how everyone can say lets keep killing ALL the deer to "test for CWD". Just a news flash from an WMU along the SASK boarder. YOU WIN!! There is only 15% of the population left compared to the numbers before. The only way to further your feeble minded outlook on CWD is to eliminate ALL the deer in Alberta and build a fence around it and never have any deer here ever again. Thats what I am advocating for. We out East are going to push back and push for the Cull/Kill province wide.

Im sure SHEEPHUNTER really wants that!!! What he has suggested that we start a complete erradication of all cervids in the WMU there are game farms. I wonder if that will include all WMU'S??


In our WMU we have had couple of winters of winter kill (not last year but the years before) and a huge oilfield expansion. Our deer have already been wiped out by mother natures and 18 wheelers never mind the rediculas numbers of deer people are killing because "they can".

Its funny how a few certin people like to push the CWD issue. The simple question about baiting as quickly hijacked by the CWD spokesperson/advocate.

LETS KILL ALL THE DEER!!!!

LOL,

Great 2nd post! Why not post with your original handle???

Oh by the way, from a business stand point . Why would a guy who makes a living from hunting. Want to do, what your assuming. Then think, why would a guy who does contribute his time to conservation issues want that too!....You look like an ass, posting assumptions! JMO

Bring something, that has more weight to the conversation!

Carry on! lol

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Hey David.

Answer me this. Are domesticated Elk and deer still distributed throught out the province? One elk or deer farm to another?

to first question Alberta is the biggest supplier to Hunt farms in Sask... the deer and elk are not from Alberta brood stock

second question not sure what you are looking for / do u mean do they distrubute deer to each other too .. its all regulated and tested all the time and we have had only 3 postive tested captive CWD cases in wild animals in Alberta that i know .. two deer WT and one Elk

David

http://www.deerfarms.com/ab.shtml

http://www.albertaelkcommission.com/about/about.php

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

to first question Alberta is the biggest supplier to Hunt farms in Sask... the deer and elk are not from Alberta brood stock

second question not sure what you are looking for / do u mean do they distrubute deer to each other too .. its all regulated and tested all the time and we have had only 3 postive tested captive CWD cases in wild animals in Alberta that i know .. two deer WT and one Elk

David

http://www.deerfarms.com/ab.shtml

http://www.albertaelkcommission.com/about/about.php

Ok here is my point

This is why i see loop holes in your theory that this is only a border issue
First off we have domesticated deer and elk farms in positive cwd areas along the border. Correct? Quite possible domesticated Elk and deer from these zones have been sold and continue to be sold to other Elk and deer farms province wide. Correct? Are u telling me we can throw up a fence around the border zones to contain the wild deer from travelling and yet continue to allow deer and elk farming in alberta? I hope you were kidding right?Getting back to baiting and concentrating elk and deer at bait or feeding stations should be banned to try and stop the spread of cwd , yet we are doing exactly this method of feeding domesticated Elk and deer in the same enclosures at bait or feeding stations for years on end ? Are you telling me Domesticated elk and deer within the cwd zone can be tested before sold or exchanged between farms for cwd? There is not a test i'm aware of on a living deer or elk. Early stages of cwd can not be detected and your telling me the province should take the chance of province wide transmission of cwd while destroying the deer along the border? Cwd has been found far west of the border in elk and deer farms around Edmonton. We need these zones tested , mandatory head submissions. Accurate data. Lets get the truth , lets get a grasp on this disease province wide. It's time the province takes some responsibility for their actions and quits pointing the finger at our neighbor to the East. You can't have your cake and eat it too so to speak.

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by NIKON

Ok here is my point

This is why i see loop holes in your theory that this is only a border issue
First off we have domesticated deer and elk farms in positive cwd areas along the border. Correct? Quite possible domesticated Elk and deer from these zones have been sold and continue to be sold to other Elk and deer farms province wide. Correct? Are u telling me we can throw up a fence around the border zones to contain the wild deer from travelling and yet continue to allow deer and elk farming in alberta? I hope you were kidding right?Getting back to baiting and concentrating elk and deer at bait or feeding stations should be banned to try and stop the spread of cwd , yet we are doing exactly this method of feeding domesticated Elk and deer in the same enclosures at bait or feeding stations for years on end ? Are you telling me Domesticated elk and deer within the cwd zone can be tested before sold or exchanged between farms for cwd? There is not a test i'm aware of on a living deer or elk. Early stages of cwd can not be detected and your telling me the province should take the chance of province wide transmission of cwd while destroying the deer along the border? Cwd has been found far west of the border in elk and deer farms around Edmonton. We need these zones tested , mandatory head submissions. Accurate data. Lets get the truth , lets get a grasp on this disease province wide. It's time the province takes some responsibility for their actions and quits pointing the finger at our neighbor to the East. You can't have your cake and eat it too so to speak.

wow please inform your self.. you are assuming .. i do not agree with Deer or Elk farming or hunt farms in Sask or anywhere .. every time a wmu has a postive test its put on the mandatory testing list.. i do not agree with baiting or feeding of any wildlife.. i do not agree with high numbers of unglates in any area of Alberta .. AFGA has a paper saying that 16 per sq mile is to high...
the only place it been detected is shown in posted

the recomended policy is in posts

it all started in 1 GMU in Col now look where it is ... so don,t do anything and it will be in most wmu in Alberta in 30 years as it has spread all ready ..

if we don,t make some hard choices as in Europe then it will spread as in the USA and we should be sending our cost of controling bills to the USA Testing Facality as posted it most likely came from Scrappies pen and jumped spieces to that mule deer then poor controls boots/dirt etc left the facility

most of this info is posted in reports i posted

keeping a bait ban is the Only choice for Alberta

Food for Thought

David

[justinO]

How will feeding deer (I don't like the word baiting) in the western WMU's spread CWD if it is not there? Donkey has assured us that it is not there.

I am still having trouble grasping the theories people on here are saying causes the spread of CWD as all the scientists do not even know how it is spread. They BELIEVE it is through contact, saliva, and possibly can be passed on through birth zero factual evidence
Please answer these questions as I have researched and no one knows they have made speculations but no factual evidence. If you find facts post the link please.
1. How did CWD originate, was it due to human involvement?
2. How is CWD spread?
Remember facts only not opinion.
Thanks