Canada Post strike

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

LOL.....there better

Thank-you

[Talking moose]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=292991

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Should someone flipping burgers make the same wage as a brain surgeon? The answer is no. Why? Is it because Dr's put up with their boss's crap better? The answer to that is no. Is it because they have a certificate on their wall? The answer to that is no. It's the work and dedication involved in attaining that certificate then using the skills that have been taught through years of university.

I didn't say anyone was worthless, as a matter of fact I said some mail delivery people are extremely smart and skilled, what I have been saying, and the point you have a hard time understanding, is that mail delivery isn't a job that requires any special skills that your typical 14yr old possesses.

Would I fire someone for asking for a raise? No. Would I lock him out for asking for a wage? No. Would I fire the whole crew for asking for a wage? No.

Now if the question was: Would you fire a guy for demanding a raise for not only himself, but the whole crew? The answer is no. Would I tell whole crew to stay home if they weren't happy with their wage and were all demanding a raise, the answer is yes. The only way we all stay employed is if I can pay the bills, otherwise we'll all be at the unemployment center.

I don't care if someone is worth $250,000 a year, if they are currently working at a job that doesn't require skills they shouldn't be paid $250,000 a year!

Should a gas attendant get $250,000 a year because they have 11yrs of university and a piece of paper that says they are qualified to operate on hearts?

If you can't understand that walking door to door delivering mail isn't a $60k/yr job, no matter how much the person doing that task is worth, there's not much I can say that will help move forward on this discussion.

Read what sundance has written, look at the charts, it's pretty obvious that without the type of forecasting that's been done in corporate, and without the guidelines they have laid out, there won't be a CP for much longer if they don't take measures to keep the company in the black.


I want I want I want, well that's fine, but if there's no money to give, then what? It all goes back to my first comment on the situation. It's about common sense, nothing personal. CP gave what they are calling their final offer because it IS the final offer. They know exactly how much they can afford to give, and obviously if they are not willing to negotiate any further, it's the maximum they can currently offer and still stay in business. I understand how they feel when my son asks for a new quad and I tell him no, then I have to explain to him that money doesn't just magically appear. Would I like to buy him all he wants? Sure, what Dad wouldn't? Can I afford to buy him everything he asks for? Of course not, it's not because I don't love him, it's for reasons he doesn't understand.... Just like what's going on at CP.

I never said anything about it being worth 60K a year.
My beef is that here are some guys who make less than $40,000
Are trying to look out for not only themselves, but future people that work there.

All you and other greedy Albertan trades people who got fat off the last boom can only cry, when especially a union tries to get something for themselves,

You're not Union? Good for you .

But there are people and tradesmen who are.

You go on about the simplicity of the job , but overlook exactly what they are fighting for.

You also trump about how it's the public who will pay for any difference like it's your own dam money,

You pull numbers out of your ass, but refuse to acknowledge what is really going on here.

It's management, not the workers that are about to cause this problem

And if they hadn't screwed it up to begin with, thus wouldn't be a problem.

As an FYI, I have a Union job and due to the miss management of the pension fund I and everyone now pay through deductions of nearly $1000 a month into this fund to hopefully have something at 65 to ride of into the sunset with.

Lose $1000 a month with no certainty to get it back and tell me how you feel.

And if you or anyone else tells me to get a new job, go **** yourself.

Until you understand all the facts, you shouldn't make comments.



You have your own business? Good for you.
Those that can't do, hire those that can.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

And on that note I'm done here.

dodge dip dive duck and dodge, never once answering the question, then conveniently bowing out so as not to answer it.

You say I'm on a high horse when all I did was state that Tradesmen should make more than a mail carrier for the obvious reason that there are more skills involved in working a trade than delivering mail.

You have no problem pointing fingers with absolutely no base, if anything its you up on the high horse.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Only because a Federal government employee is compensated the same whether he lives in Ft Mac, Toronto, Vancouver or as you say Coronation (do they have mail delivery there?). However they still have to pay the same as other residents for housing, groceries etc. yes, they knew that going in, but I'll never begrudge someone for trying to gain a better standard of living, I'm not sure anyone should? Hope this makes some sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bolded - This



PS: This thread is why we will see NDP for more terms. You can easily pick out the business owners on this thread.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

dodge dip dive duck and dodge, never once answering the question, then conveniently bowing out so as not to answer it.

You say I'm on a high horse when all I did was state that Tradesmen should make more than a mail carrier for the obvious reason that there are more skills involved in working a trade than delivering mail.

You have no problem pointing fingers with absolutely no base, if anything its you up on the high horse.

Last response. No I don't know exactly what skills are required. I've never done it-same as you but you are stead fast in saying they're not worth it when you don't know all that they do. To say that a tradesman should make more because of education is false imho. I know lot's of tradesman who physically couldn't do a postie job but according to you they should get paid more. And to say no skill is required and a 14 year old could do it is an insult weather you want to admit it or not.

Bye.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I never said anything about it being worth 60K a year.
My beef is that here are some guys who make less than $40,000
Are trying to look out for not only themselves, but future people that work there.

All you and other greedy Albertan trades people who got fat off the last boom can only cry, when especially a union tries to get something for themselves,

You're not Union? Good for you .

But there are people and tradesmen who are.

You go on about the simplicity of the job , but overlook exactly what they are fighting for.

You also trump about how it's the public who will pay for any difference like it's your own dam money,

You pull numbers out of your ass, but refuse to acknowledge what is really going on here.

It's management, not the workers that are about to cause this problem

And if they hadn't screwed it up to begin with, thus wouldn't be a problem.

As an FYI, I have a Union job and due to the miss management of the pension fund I and everyone now pay through deductions of nearly $1000 a month into this fund to hopefully have something at 65 to ride of into the sunset with.

Lose $1000 a month with no certainty to get it back and tell me how you feel.

And if you or anyone else tells me to get a new job, go **** yourself.

Until you understand all the facts, you shouldn't make comments.



You have your own business? Good for you.
Those that can't do, hire those that can.

LOL, lets break it down,

Your guys looking out for the future of everyone else are clueless, if they ran the company it would be tits up before years end.

You better look in the mirror because its not the rich fat Alberta tradesmen who are crying its the posties

compared to a trade, delivering the mail is a simple job

if its not my money I spend on postage fees whos is it? Oh ya, its that magic money you and a few others keep spouting off about, never mind.

Management has put out the final offer because they understand the cost of doing business and have come out with their plan, end of story. I don't expect you to understand this concept, it is an upper level line of decision making.

Laying blame on who screwed what up in the past is all fine and dandy, and if it makes you feel better that's a bonus, but it wont make money magically appear no matter how much you say please please please

as for you losing your pension, I know the feeling, I lost over $50k in the last two years alone, join the club.

As for your opinion on owning your own business goes, its typical of those with a deep sense of entitlement who lack the balls to do it. I spent years training and babysitting before I went out on my own. If its so easy that anyone without skills can do, stop your whining and open up shop, then you can sit on a high horse with me. Simple.

I have yet to hire anyone with the skill in my trade that I have, if I did, I would be a happy man.



I want I want I want.... What, I have to work for it or get a new job???

you guys are a bunch of meanies

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Last response. No I don't know exactly what skills are required. I've never done it-same as you but you are stead fast in saying they're not worth it when you don't know all that they do. To say that a tradesman should make more because of education is false imho. I know lot's of tradesman who physically couldn't do a postie job but according to you they should get paid more. And to say no skill is required and a 14 year old could do it is an insult weather you want to admit it or not.

Bye.

Bye

PS, I didn't say no skill, I said no special skill. And it takes more skill to paint a house than it does to drop the mail in the mailbox no matter how you look at it.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

LOL, lets break it down,

Your guys looking out for the future of everyone else are clueless, if they ran the company it would be tits up before years end.

You better look in the mirror because its not the rich fat Alberta tradesmen who are crying its the posties

compared to a trade, delivering the mail is a simple job

if its not my money I spend on postage fees whos is it? Oh ya, its that magic money you and a few others keep spouting off about, never mind.

Management has put out the final offer because they understand the cost of doing business and have come out with their plan, end of story. I don't expect you to understand this concept, it is an upper level line of decision making.

Laying blame on who screwed what up in the past is all fine and dandy, and if it makes you feel better that's a bonus, but it wont make money magically appear no matter how much you say please please please

as for you losing your pension, I know the feeling, I lost over $50k in the last two years alone, join the club.

As for your opinion on owning your own business goes, its typical of those with a deep sense of entitlement who lack the balls to do it. I spent years training and babysitting before I went out on my own. If its so easy that anyone without skills can do, stop your whining and open up shop, then you can sit on a high horse with me. Simple.

I have yet to hire anyone with the skill in my trade that I have, if I did, I would be a happy man.

Actually it's you with the sense of entitlement,
You owning a business doesn't give you the right to brag about no one else being as good as you,

The point of this, is and has been, employees have the right(s) to ask what it is they feel is best for them.

You can't understand the logic, because as you say, they just take a walk every day.

That sir, is where you are selfish, self centred, and closed minded to what this is all about.
It doesn't affect you one way or the other, but you have to trumpet on about it like you have something to lose.

You are management, so you lose touch.

Instead of sitting on your horse , get off of it and get your hands dirty again.

Remind yourself that there actually is more at stake, than just your bottom line.



I too am done with this thread....

See you in the next one.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Camdelle

Same gat tests and everything else the public service has to complete. As well there are many more tests. Sorty I don't have specifics. . . With what's going on he couldn't talk for long on his break.

Having being directly involved in hiring in the past myself, I for one would like to see the tests that people have to qualify in order to deliver the mail.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Actually it's you with the sense of entitlement,
You owning a business doesn't give you the right to brag about no one else being as good as you,

The point of this, is and has been, employees have the right(s) to ask what it is they feel is best for them.

You can't understand the logic, because as you say, they just take a walk every day.

That sir, is where you are selfish, self centred, and closed minded to what this is all about.
It doesn't affect you one way or the other, but you have to trumpet on about it like you have something to lose.

You are management, so you lose touch.

Instead of sitting on your horse , get off of it and get your hands dirty again.

Remind yourself that there actually is more at stake, than just your bottom line.



I too am done with this thread....

See you in the next one.

I'm not bragging about anything, I'm only letting you know I own a business so I have a better understanding of why decisions are made.

Employees do have the right to ask for more, and employers have the right to deny them. Employees do not have the right to question employers despite what you may think, if the employer wishes to give reasons for their decisions, fine, if not, well it is their business like it or not. There is ALWAYS the option to find employment elsewhere.

There wasn't a problem with wages and benefits at CP until it came time for a new agreement, this is where the new directive was given by management, an action I am positive they had to take in order to keep operating in todays market. It bent noses but it had to be done. How long do you think they will be around if they jack up postage fees? We are living in the electronic age, get with the times or get left behind.



I spend more time on site fixing screw ups than I should have to, there is a lot more to owning a small business than what you think. I don't know of any small business owners that don't still have calloused hands.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

I never said any job was worth any amount-YOU DID. I'd just like to know what qualifications you have to determine what job is worth how much?

Do you not think that a job should be paid based upon market conditions? Jobs requiring specialized skill and/or education can only be done by those with those skills. A job sweeping floors can be done by a much wider range of people. Now some jobs take no education or special skill but may be dangerous or physically hard or just plain ****ty. Take a honey wagon job crawling into septic tanks for cleaning. Unless desperate for work that would be last on my list. Therefore employers have fewer people to draw from for hiring.

Then within all job skills there is a range of competancy and drive. You can get lazy bad doctors. You can get lazy bad floor sweepers.

Employers know this manta. You get what you pay for also applies for hiring staff.

This topic comes up often on AOF. While there are exceptions.

Simple plain truth. You have fewer opportunities and far less likely to get a higher paying job if you do not go to post secondary school.

Fact. If you are lazy and have no drive don't expect a handout.

Would you not agree?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Camdelle

I agree with you totally on this point. .. I've taken the risk. .. have the bank loans and payments to prove it.

However this is a different matter. We have people sitting on the sidelines and insulting fellow Canadians out of sheer ignorance.

Hiw many people are still calling what is to happen on Friday a strike.

From doing some reading last night this seems to be an issue with less and less to do wit letter carriers.

This group represents everything from heavy duty mechanics (trades) to sorters, warehouse staff and front counter personnel.

A group that has not been discussed at all are rsmc. Rural and suburban mail carriers. Their wages seem to be far below that of the combined other group. Let's call the other group hmmmm..... traditional postal employees.

Seems rsmc's make less than 2/3 of what tpe's make and use their own vehicles and do not get paid for much of their time and have to do a lot of things for free.....

Seems the letter carriers that are so lazy are fighting for mechanics and rsmc's and every one else.

Seems if they were smart like everyone on this forum they would just sell the rest of them out and grab the brass ring for themselves.....

Oh canada. What a country.

Maybe folks are just a little testy because of the poor condition of the economy and the totally inept provincial and Federal governments' handling of it.

Nero fiddled, Trudeau marched in a gay pride parade. See the link? Folks are fed up and frustrated.

[Okotokian]

More printed communication in this thread than Canada Post carries in a normal business day if you don't count the flyers. A good long strike or lockout should put the nail in the coffin of this beast, just like the big strike did in British coal mines during Thatcher's time in office.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I never said anything about it being worth 60K a year.
My beef is that here are some guys who make less than $40,000
Are trying to look out for not only themselves, but future people that work there.

All you and other greedy Albertan trades people who got fat off the last boom can only cry, when especially a union tries to get something for themselves,

You're not Union? Good for you .

But there are people and tradesmen who are.

You go on about the simplicity of the job , but overlook exactly what they are fighting for.

You also trump about how it's the public who will pay for any difference like it's your own dam money,

You pull numbers out of your ass, but refuse to acknowledge what is really going on here.

It's management, not the workers that are about to cause this problem

And if they hadn't screwed it up to begin with, thus wouldn't be a problem.

As an FYI, I have a Union job and due to the miss management of the pension fund I and everyone now pay through deductions of nearly $1000 a month into this fund to hopefully have something at 65 to ride of into the sunset with.

Lose $1000 a month with no certainty to get it back and tell me how you feel.

And if you or anyone else tells me to get a new job, go **** yourself.

Until you understand all the facts, you shouldn't make comments.



You have your own business? Good for you.
Those that can't do, hire those that can.

Really...nice job painting small business owners as those that "can't" do it..

[TBD]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

blah ... You owning a business doesn't give you the right to brag about no one else being as good as you,

The point of this, is and has been, employees have the right(s) to ask what it is they feel is best for them.

blah blah

That sir, is where you are selfish, self centred, and closed minded to what this is all about.
It doesn't affect you one way or the other, but you have to trumpet on about it like you have something to lose.

blah blah

Instead of sitting on your horse , get off of it and get your hands dirty again.

blah



blah

blah

from a schmuck that spent two years in college to learn how to shuffle papers for his gov't bureaucratic masters ...


... and delusional enough to think that his role (mainly parasitic) in our economy is somehow comparable to small business owners - who create value, wealth and jobs everyday.



ETWN - What do you create ?

Sorry ... but this has to be the most ignorant post I've ever seen on AO

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by TBD

from a schmuck that spent two years in college to learn how to shuffle papers for his gov't bureaucratic masters ...


... and delusional enough to think that his role (mainly parasitic) in our economy is somehow comparable to small business owners - who create value, wealth and jobs everyday.



ETWN - What do you create ?

Sorry ... but this has to be the most ignorant post I've ever seen on AO

You were a little late to the party but I value your input.

You don't know what I do , therefore I don't think you can you make any comment about it.

What I do has no bearing here

But thanks for assuming...

Some thing about making an ass....

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by MrLeahy

Really...nice job painting small business owners as those that "can't" do it..

That was directed at Kurt505 specifically.

[Sundancefisher]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...iner-1.3666723

Canada Post pension deficit $6 billion dollars.

Who pays that?

1. Employees through increased payroll deductions?
2. Tax payers through tax grabs?
3. Wish and a prayers that markets skyrocket taking the plan value up?
4. Switch to defined contribution plan.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

You were a little late to the party but I value your input.

You don't know what I do , therefore I don't think you can you make any comment about it.

What I do has no bearing here

But thanks for assuming...

Some thing about making an ass....

yeh i do, you told us all a few months back, you issue permits for drilling services - right ?

you were telling us then how it was such an important intricate piece of i/p and that if you were not (in that role) wells would not get drilled in AB - period.

coming back to you ETWN ?

[Sitting Bull]

Over paid and under worked. I have heard so many stories from a friend who works for the post office that it makes my blood boil. Even he thinks some of the things that go on and some of the decisions and wants by the union are not realistic. Privilege and entitlement attitudes. If they go on strike it will affect me personally .
This is just my thoughts on the subject.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

That was directed at Kurt505 specifically.

You know me?

You have no problem insulting me even though you haven't got a clue who I am or what I do for a living.

I can see why you have a bitter attitude to your superiors. Ever wonder why you always get the remedial tasks? You're lucky your in the union and people have no choice but employ the next on the list. You are what's wrong with unions, everyone has to get paid the same rate no matter how bad of an employee they are.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...iner-1.3666723

Canada Post pension deficit $6 billion dollars.

Who pays that?

1. Employees through increased payroll deductions?
2. Tax payers through tax grabs?
3. Wish and a prayers that markets skyrocket taking the plan value up?
4. Switch to defined contribution plan.

You are forgetting one,
5. The money fairy that can make money appear when people whine.

[catnthehat]

Okay, this thread has gone from one concerning the Postal strike to Unions being all inclusive and all members in them being the same.
The union involved with Canada Post has nothing to do with other unions persay.
Time for this one to be closed

Cat