Newest information on open spaces.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by bowchaser

I would agree with you. Morton will not listen at this point regardless of what people are saying. What I cannot wrap my head around is why when the message is loud and clear from the outdoors community. All I can assume is he will benefit personally either for personal hunts, or future political aspirations. Just don't get it...

I know a Forensic Accountant and his solution is to follow the Money for the most obvious explanation.

In 2006, Paul Hinman leader of the (then)Alberta Alliance (now Wild Rose) and MLA for Taber, Cardston Warner, threw his support behind Ted Morton's run for premier. John Murdoch then AA President now WR Campaign Chair(I think), also endorsed the PC Morton!

In Utah, Cardston is refered to as "Salt Lake city North" for good reaon, as the town was orginally founded by LDS poligamists. Given the sizable LDS population in in 108 and 300, and the reality that little(politcally), will happen in that area without church support....

I wonder if Ted's (stated) politcal ambitions, which include, "bringing fringe right wingers home" has anything to do with this apparent made in UTAH solution called OS?

Wild Rose is on record stating, they are opposed to OS and the PC's are on record, saying they want Cardston, Taber and Warner back. The PC ‘s are running candidate Broyce Jacobs , a Mormon who(I believe) ranches in WMU 300?

[frenchwhitey]

I have just spent a few hours reading this thread and countless articles and web sites about Open Spaces. I am certainly against it. I don't know how to say this but what happens now? What do we do to stop this sleeping bear? I've read and read and read but it has gotten me to only one conclusion, Open Spaces must be stopped. A lot of people on this thread are saying that it might be too late. Sorry if I sound ignorant but is it??

Originally Posted by frenchwhitey

I have just spent a few hours reading this thread and countless articles and web sites about Open Spaces. I am certainly against it. I don't know how to say this but what happens now? What do we do to stop this sleeping bear? I've read and read and read but it has gotten me to only one conclusion, Open Spaces must be stopped. A lot of people on this thread are saying that it might be too late. Sorry if I sound ignorant but is it??

Just keep writing letters, you should write Stelmach. Morton isn't listening and I think Ed might. I hope people are starting to realize that maybe Morton isn't the breath of fresh air they thought he was.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by frenchwhitey

I have just spent a few hours reading this thread and countless articles and web sites about Open Spaces. I am certainly against it. I don't know how to say this but what happens now? What do we do to stop this sleeping bear? I've read and read and read but it has gotten me to only one conclusion, Open Spaces must be stopped. A lot of people on this thread are saying that it might be too late. Sorry if I sound ignorant but is it??

I was a little depressed a couple days ago regarding the whole thing, but I've seen some rays of light come poking through in the last 24hrs. I don't think it's too late, far from it. The big push is on, and we are being heard by the right people.

The best thing you can do is to contact your PC MLA, Stelmach directly, and as many more of the people who's contact info has been posted here as you can. No need for long eloquent letters, just let them know your position. There is strength in numbers, and it is starting to have a positive impact.

Waxy

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by frenchwhitey

I have just spent a few hours reading this thread and countless articles and web sites about Open Spaces. I am certainly against it. I don't know how to say this but what happens now? What do we do to stop this sleeping bear? I've read and read and read but it has gotten me to only one conclusion, Open Spaces must be stopped. A lot of people on this thread are saying that it might be too late. Sorry if I sound ignorant but is it??

It ain't here yet so it is not too late!

[Pathfinder76]

know a Forensic Accountant and his solution is to follow the Money for the most obvious explanation.

In 2006, Paul Hinman leader of the (then)Alberta Alliance (now Wild Rose) and MLA for Taber, Cardston Warner, threw his support behind Ted Morton's run for premier. John Murdoch then AA President now WR Campaign Chair(I think), also endorsed the PC Morton!

In Utah, Cardston is refered to as "Salt Lake city North" for good reaon, as the town was orginally founded by LDS poligamists. Given the sizable LDS population in in 108 and 300, and the reality that little(politcally), will happen in that area without church support....

I wonder if Ted's (stated) politcal ambitions, which include, "bringing fringe right wingers home" has anything to do with this apparent made in UTAH solution called OS?

Wild Rose is on record stating, they are opposed to OS and the PC's are on record, saying they want Cardston, Taber and Warner back. The PC ‘s are running candidate Broyce Jacobs , a Mormon who(I believe) ranches in WMU 300?

This ad will hopefully be in the Calgary Sun on Saturday.

Bubba

[bruceba]

Bottom half of page 19

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by chuck

Here’s a little info one group that stands to benefit from OS.

The Deseret Ranch http://www.dlandl.com/pages/hunting/index.html

“Deseret Management Corp., the company through which the church holds almost all its commercial assets, is one of the largest owners of farm and ranchland in the country(USA), including 49 for-profit parcels in addition to the Deseret Ranch. Besides the Bonneville International chain and �Beneficial Life� the church owns a 52% holding in ZCMI, Utah's largest department-store chain. All told, TIME estimates that the Latter-day Saints farmland and total some $11 billion, and that the church's non tithe income �from its investments� exceeds $600 million. “


The word Deseret in this case comes from this definition:

An area proposed by the Mormons in 1849 as an independent state or a state of the Union. Deseret would have included much of the southwest United States, with a capital at Salt Lake City. Congress refused to recognize the provisional state and created the Utah Territory in 1850.

All Albertans are familiar with the notion that Huge corporations typically get their needs met before voters.

I suppose we might not notice that OS was born in a LDS dominated riding, that loves Ted so much, that the opposition party (that holds the seat in that riding) actually supported his leadership bid,. It could be pure luck that OS appears to be modeled on a "succesful" program used in Utah. I guess the fact that Deseret Ranche(AB) is listed as an area where the program could be implemented is just tinfoil hat logic. But when we look at how hard the PC's are trying to get their man Broyce Jacobs back in the seat, it goes a long way to explaining the timing and nature of this wildly unpopular program.

[Pathfinder76]

Just so you know, some of the most vocal and active opponents of this proposal are "Mormon's", and Broyce Jacobs has only very recently known about this OS pilate. Religion has nothing to do with it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by chuck

Just so you know, some of the most vocal and active opponents of this proposal are "Mormon's", and Broyce Jacobs has only very recently known about this OS pilate. Religion has nothing to do with it.

It may be misunderstood ,as you say.
The Mormons as a group have maybe wrongly been identified as all being in fovour of OS, when it is bascily the operators of the Ranch ?
Personally ,I don't really care who is behind the push, I simply don't agree or want it!!
Cat

[bruceba]

So I just have to ask a simple question here. With all the focus on Ted Morton where did Cormack Gates dissappear to?

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It may be misunderstood ,as you say.
The Mormons as a group have maybe wrongly been identified as all being in fovour of OS, when it is bascily the operators of the Ranch ?
Personally ,I don't really care who is behind the push, I simply don't agree or want it!!
Cat

Well said cat.

I could care less about your religion.

I am more concerned that the ranch everyone is talking about is American owned. If they want American paid hunting maybe they should sell here and buy more land in Utah.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by chuck

Just so you know, some of the most vocal and active opponents of this proposal are "Mormon's", and Broyce Jacobs has only very recently known about this OS pilate. Religion has nothing to do with it.

Of course there are Mormons who don't agree wih it. But where does Deseret corp stand?

When you say recently do you mean he(Broyce) is just learning about he OS proposal in his own riding? Or do you mean he is just learning about the concept?

As a Rancher, in the OS proposal area, former county reeve and a BYU graduate I would think he would be in the know. I recall, that you Chuck, posted that Ted Morton would be speaking about Open Spaces at Broyce Jacobs fundraiser on FEB 11 @ Cardston High so I'm going to have to assume he knew about it by that point in time and given he let Ted talk about it at his fundraiser he probably is not against it.

[lazy ike]

I know a couple of Mormons personally who think this idea stinks but at least one very large LDS owned business appears to be very interested in this proposal. This is about $$$ not religion.

[Pathfinder76]

Broyce only found out about open spaces just before that meeting in Cardston. He wouldn't be "familiar with the concept" at all. In fact I'd wager a guess that he'd never thought about it until January. BYU doesn't offer a paid hunting 101 course that I'm aware of.

Deseret ranches is in the business to maximize profits. Decisions about this proposed program are made by a handful of American born individuals who are fairly immune to the concept of paid hunting. To them this makes sense. I for one don't happen to agree with it and have told two of Deseret management same over the phone.

This is about $$$ not religion.

Then quit painting the OS initiative with such a large religious brush.

This in the Letbridge Herald today after a forum in Coaldale;
Southern Alberta hunters are also up in arms about “paid hunting,” the forum learned. A Tory plan, spearheaded by Calgary-area MLA Ted Morton, would see landowners collect fees from hunters in specified areas.
“This was brought up as a secret project,” said Petluk.(NDP) “But there are 60,000 hunters in Alberta, and the vast majority are opposed.”
The scheme will be introduced in southern Alberta as a pilot project, McFarland said. But he wants to meet more fish and game club members to hear their views.





McFarland says it will be introduced as a pilot project. It has been introduced already. (we all know about it). I hope he doesn't mean it will be in place. The views of Fish & Game members has been heard loud and clear by everyone. ( except for the p.c.'s I guess)

[lazy ike]

Broyce only found out about open spaces just before that meeting in Cardston. He wouldn't be "familiar with the concept" at all. In fact I'd wager a guess that he'd never thought about it until January. BYU doesn't offer a paid hunting 101 course that I'm aware of

Deseret ranches is in the business to maximize profits. Decisions about this proposed program are made by a handful of American born individuals who are fairly immune to the concept of paid hunting. To them this makes sense. I for one don't happen to agree with it and have told two of Deseret management same over the phone.

Then quit painting the OS initiative with such a large religious brush.

It would be very irresponsible to bring in Ted Morton as a keynote speaker at your own funraiser, without having any opinion on the Topic Ted was brought in to discuss but I guess it's possible.

I'm not sure what "immune to the concept of paid hunting" means in this case?

The LDS religion, is an incredibly active and powerful political entity. They have a politcal agenda like any other religious group and ignoring their influence in the (OS)proposal area is impossible. I hope that the people in Cardston, Taber,Warner show their true colours and vote accordingly. Paul Hinman(the current MLA) is "100% against" the proposal and Broyce???

said Petluk.(NDP) “But there are 60,000 hunters in Alberta

Wonder where he got that number from?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by chuck

Broyce only found out about open spaces just before that meeting in Cardston. He wouldn't be "familiar with the concept" at all. In fact I'd wager a guess that he'd never thought about it until January. BYU doesn't offer a paid hunting 101 course that I'm aware of.

Deseret ranches is in the business to maximize profits. Decisions about this proposed program are made by a handful of American born individuals who are fairly immune to the concept of paid hunting. To them this makes sense. I for one don't happen to agree with it and have told two of Deseret management same over the phone.



Then quit painting the OS initiative with such a large religious brush.

Sorry chuck, the Mormon church sets its self up by being so involved with comercial ventures, its imposible to mention one with out the other. Not that I have a issue with how the church operates. You have to take the good with the bad.

Jamie

This thing isn't about the church, it's about the gov't and a garbage plan to sell wildlife. You can't blame the church for wanting to make money and I am sure they aren't even involved anymore.

[Piker]

Had the chance to talk to B.jacobs just last week and had a chance to air my opinions about said program. Mr Jacobs did not have much info on it but said if he was elected he would certainly look into my concerns. There is not enough people in this constituency for the govt. to worry about except they want P. hinman out. I told B. Jacobs that in honesty I could not vote for the conservstive party. In the meantime I have been on the computer telling all the govt. officaials that I can and who are connected with it what I think. Hopefully something positive will come out of this in the end.

[Pathfinder76]

I hope that the people in Cardston, Taber,Warner show their true colours and vote accordingly. Paul Hinman(the current MLA) is "100% against" the proposal and Broyce???

Don't both of these gentlemen belong to the same religion?

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by Piker

Had the chance to talk to B.jacobs just last week and had a chance to air my opinions about said program. Mr Jacobs did not have much info on it but said if he was elected he would certainly look into my concerns. There is not enough people in this constituency for the govt. to worry about except they want P. hinman out. I told B. Jacobs that in honesty I could not vote for the conservstive party. In the meantime I have been on the computer telling all the govt. officaials that I can and who are connected with it what I think. Hopefully something positive will come out of this in the end.

I think you are right on the money with them wanting Hinman out and it sure looks like OS is the price they are willing to pay. The PC's cannot afford to bleed support to the right if they want to keep the Majority.

Why do we have to wait until Broyce is elected before he will "look into it"?

Broyce shouldn't have to wait.

Other PC's are looking into it as we speak. If he wants your vote tell him to grow a set.

Keep making noise - it is starting to have some efect.

One thing that everyone needs to remember is that as soon as an election is called, basically all government stops working and by law there are no members of the Legislative Assembly until the results of the election become official. Basically no one has the power to do anything as there is no Legislative Assembly.

What difference does it make what religion they are? This is about a project that the p.c.'s have tried to introduce under secrecy. IMHO, because they knew that the hunting public would disagree with it. Some of the p.c. hopefuls are back pedaling or don't know anything about OS. This may be a small item in the whole election process, and it is not getting much publicity. but it is costing the p.c.'s votes. They are very worried. Ted Morton is going to cost the conservatives several seats. I wonder what Stelmach is thinking? Will Morton still be the minister? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by sheephunter

One thing that everyone needs to remember is that as soon as an election is called, basically all government stops working and by law there are no members of the Legislative Assembly until the results of the election become official. Basically no one has the power to do anything as there is no Legislative Assembly.

This is still no reason to stop fighting this!

Originally Posted by 340wtby

This is still no reason to stop fighting this!

Did I say it was...I was just bringing a fact to the board that obviously some are unaware of. Sometimes a fact is just a fact...in fact, with me it always is!

We have the power right now, the power of our vote! It is important to remind them of this.
It is probably the only way they'll listen.